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Ridiculous NJ Assault Weapons Ban Expires in 2012 ?????

By 1911Fan, in Current New Jersey Gun Laws Discussion

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tbtrout    141

tbtrout
Posted

I think waht 1911fan is trying to say in his overloaded analytical mind is in NJ you are guilty until you provide proof of innocence. A burden that is very costly and damaging to all the firearms you own when they are tossed in the evidence room. It is not a situation he wishes to find himself in and was trying to communicate that using the numerous conversations he had with lawyers and other FFL's, right wrong or misguided it was the info he recieved. And upon processing said information he came to the conclusion that owning one is not worth the possibility of losing his job, house, family, other guns and the great joy of waking up for 10 years making bacon for Bubba.

 

Everyone has a different opinion.

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quikz    34

quikz
Posted
"any ak type" MEANS exactly what is written.. remember the ban list is a NAMING ban.. NOT a ban describing the action of the weapon.. "ak47" "ak74" it is written to include ALL "ak" weapons.. a saiga is NOT an AK.. it is a SAIGA.. and you are to consider it substantially identical to an "AK" if it meets the state specified criteria..

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

 

1. a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a bayonet mount;

4. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

5. a grenade launcher;

 

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

 

the situation is PAINFULLY simple..

 

1) is a Saiga a listed gun on the ban list? NO

2) is it substantially identical based on the GOVERNMENT PROVIDED definition of substantially identical? NO

 

Damagedworld nailed it for me.

 

But pls do us all a favor and don't draw this type of negative attn to all us Saiga hunting rifle owners. Our NJ AG will scream BAN!!! at the mere hint of a pin drop or when "AK" is even whispered.

 

You can buy a Ruger Ranch Mini 30 hunting rifle in the identical caliber as a 7.62 x 39 Saiga in NJ. It is even piston driven. It could be substantially identical to a Ruger Mini-14 which also comes as a select fire/full auto AC-556 which can come w/ flash hider, bayonet lugs, pistol grip, folding stock, etc, etc, and is a named "Banned" rifle on the SP 'list'.

 

Just shows the confusion out there regarding this whole thing. Shows how UTTERLY USELESS and VILE the "AWB" really is.

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Guest   

Guest
Posted
Damagedworld......I assure you that I have listened to every thing you said and have taken all of it into consideration.

The final factor in my decision was when I spoke to lawyers who said they would not take my case if it was an AK variant that caused the trouble but they would if it was an AR type other than the specific models listed in the statute I mentioned above.

That's what really made me decide I didn't want to take the chance. I am not paranoid at all - I don't want to end up like the guy that this exact thing happened to and all he did was go to the range each Sunday and his own neighbors called the cops on him. That's all. It cost him 30K to get out of trouble and in my mind, even $100 bucks is too much to have to pay to explain any firearm is not illegal.

 

I thought a clarifying letter would be a good idea since everyone is saying I am wrong about my interpretation of the law and it would clear the air once and for all but now I have changed my mind. You make a good point that it could turn out to be trouble for some law abiding FFL's and law abiding gun owners (for whom I would never wish to cause any unnecessary trouble because of my silly query - and I don't even know them - We need to stick together which is the same reason I refuse to bash that FFL that freaked out on me) so I withdraw my last post and once again apologize for ever posting this thread as my flame suit is burnt to a crisp and I have to go buy another :oops:

 

I will now go back to hoping and praying for incorporation to work out well for us and then my wife and I will each buy a currently banned Real AK Variant with as many "evil" features as possible the first day incorporation takes effect. :D

 

For now, I'm going to spend my money on an over/under shotgun - I held a few that felt perfect for me and look forward to trying some more out tomorrow at Central Jersey!

Now I am off to mow the lawn so I can go to the CJRPC shoot all day tomorrow from dusk till dawn knowing all of my chores are done! Hope to see you all there! And yes - I still take care of my own lawn and I am proud of it - It is the absolute nicest lawn in the neighborhood! :D

 

ill leave you with this.... and no more...

arrest me for my Saiga and not only will i represent myself.. but ill never work again...

 

the law in NJ clearly states that an individual must KNOWINGLY possess an "assault weapon" to be guilty... there is not a chance in hell that you will be convicted of owning an "assault weapon" that you were legally sold in the state.. now even in your worst case scenario.. its the dealer whos going to bite the bullet because they sold it to you... we the people are at the mercy of firearms dealers when it comes to knowing the law... i have made every effort i could to follow the law.. i legally purchased my rifle in nj from an NJ dealer.. i made NO alterations to it that would make it substantially identical.. and on the VERY off chance that the saiga is some magic gun that has slipped through everything... that is hardly my fault.. i am one of MANY gun owners who LEGALLY purchased the gun.. it was presented to me that it was legal in the state.. and there was STATE documents stating it was sold to me.. so even IF its a red flag... and a problem.. its not my problem.. and that is clearly easy to prove..

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quikz    34

quikz
Posted

Well said.

 

I keep all my paperwork with me and with the rifles, NOT because I need to, but because it's...NJ. :roll: Whether it be 922R stuff, proof of purchase, etc...

 

Come to think of it. If my budget allows, I'd maybe look into a Saiga 5.45, if there is one.

 

Also, fellow forum members. You could buy a pump 12 gauge with pistol grip and a collapsible stock, here in NJ. But pls, no crusading to our AG who is further out in left-field than almost the...entire country. :roll:

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Mauser88    0

Mauser88
Posted

ill leave you with this.... and no more...

arrest me for my Saiga and not only will i represent myself.. but ill never work again...

 

the law in NJ clearly states that an individual must KNOWINGLY possess an "assault weapon" to be guilty... there is not a chance in hell that you will be convicted of owning an "assault weapon" that you were legally sold in the state.. now even in your worst case scenario.. its the dealer whos going to bite the bullet because they sold it to you... we the people are at the mercy of firearms dealers when it comes to knowing the law... i have made every effort i could to follow the law.. i legally purchased my rifle in nj from an NJ dealer.. i made NO alterations to it that would make it substantially identical.. and on the VERY off chance that the saiga is some magic gun that has slipped through everything... that is hardly my fault.. i am one of MANY gun owners who LEGALLY purchased the gun.. it was presented to me that it was legal in the state.. and there was STATE documents stating it was sold to me.. so even IF its a red flag... and a problem.. its not my problem.. and that is clearly easy to prove..

 

Jesus do you sound like a dumbass kid. No disrespect meant my friend. Just read the following.

 

Let me tell you sonny boy I happen to know personally about a guy on AR15.COM who was busted for possion of a Mosin Nagant because it had an attached bayonet. Yeah it's a bolt action rifle. Also busted at the same time with a NJ legal WASR and a legal post ban Bushy AR.

 

Why because a neighbor watched him pack his guns and ammo every Sunday and go to my club. A stack out was placed across the street to confirm his actions. After observing him for four Sundays in row he was toast!!!

 

The Judge issued a warrant under the guise of Homeland Security. SP, ATF and County Sheriff took him off to jail at 4:00 am. He had NO illegal firearms NONE!!!!

 

They took his computer, every firearm he owned, every bayonet and knife he owned, books he owned and anything else they thought that would incrimanate him.

 

Long story short he was released and all his firearms were returned.

 

This took 18 months to work out and a significant toll on his well being. He was a non drinker with a good job. He lost his job, thrown out of his apartment and ended up in debt to the tune of 30 grand for Attorney's fees. He was never the same guy I met before this all happened.

 

I suggested he sue and his Attorney said he better move out of State before he did so because his crap life would go beyond crap +100

 

His Attorney said he had a great case to sue but he would have to come up with some major up front money for his fees.

 

The original charges and Attorney fees just about busted him. Now where do you come up with another 5k to get the lawsuit started after all the BS he just went through??

 

The system is 100% in THEIR favor. You are a puny lowlife in their eyes who is destined to failure no matter how brilliant you think you are and how and much money you have.

 

I don't care who you are and how much money you have if they want to screw you over they will and their is not a Godamn thing you can do about it unless you have unlimited funds.

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Guest   

Guest
Posted

 

Jesus do you sound like a dumbass kid. No disrespect meant my friend. Just read the following.

 

Let me tell you sonny boy I happen to know personally about a guy on AR15.COM who was busted for possion of a Mosin Nagant because it had an attached bayonet. Yeah it's a bolt action rifle. Also busted at the same time with a NJ legal WASR and a legal post ban Bushy AR.

 

Why because a neighbor watched him pack his guns and ammo every Sunday and go to my club. A stack out was placed across the street to confirm his actions. After observing him for four Sundays in row he was toast!!!

 

The Judge issued a warrant under the guise of Homeland Security. SP, ATF and County Sheriff took him off to jail at 4:00 am. He had NO illegal firearms NONE!!!!

 

They took his computer, every firearm he owned, every bayonet and knife he owned, books he owned and anything else they thought that would incrimanate him.

 

Long story short he was released and all his firearms were returned.

 

This took 18 months to work out and a significant toll on his well being. He was a non drinker with a good job. He lost his job, thrown out of his apartment and ended up in debt to the tune of 30 grand for Attorney's fees. He was never the same guy I met before this all happened.

 

I suggested he sue and his Attorney said he better move out of State before he did so because his crap life would go beyond crap +100

His Attorney said he had a great case to sue but he would have to come up with some major up front money for his fees.

 

The original charges and Attorney fees just about busted him. Now where do you come up with another 5k to get the lawsuit started after all the BS he just went through??

 

The system is 100% in THEIR favor. You are a puny lowlife in their eyes who is destined to failure no matter how brilliant you think you are and how and much money you have.

 

I don't care who you are and how much money you have if they want to screw you over they will and their is not a Godamn thing you can do about it unless you have unlimited funds.

 

the irony is.. you mock me.. by saying i sound like a little kid..

BUT then you verify exactly what i said...

 

1) you will NOT be in trouble...

2) you could sue them....

 

this is.. EXACTLY what i said would happen... and then you validate that... people are very hung up on having a lawyer... you really do not need one..i have been to court for different things through my lifetime.. and i have always represented myself.. from a couple little fights when i was younger... to my recent divorce..all the time representing myself.. if you have a brain and can read.. you can represent yourself in court... and if through falsely arresting me ALL those horrible things happened as a result.. it would be a VERY simple case to prove... and honestly if you looked hard enough you would likely find a lawyer to take that case with nothing up front..

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