Effects of denial

[silvertiger27 0]

Hi everyone! Hopeful new gun owner here, trying to get through the process and I have a question.

 

I've seen a therapist for just general things on and off for a while after a divorce. Never been committed or institutionalized or anything even close to major like that, never arrested or had any legal issues with mental whatever. Just voluntary stuff. However, like an idiot, when I looked over the form in the police station I asked about the details of question 26, which asks about being treated for mental conditions. I honestly didn't know how to answer, since my therapist was forced to give me a diagnosis for my health insurance.

 

Fortunately, I seem to have a very nice and helpful detective at my local PD who invited me back behind the glass and sat down with me for like 10 minutes to discuss my concerns, and she seemed pretty empathetic. She'd need to send forms to the therapists I saw and all that, but I'm confident in their support.

 

My question is this: there's still a chance for denial, I'm sure, and this license is sort of to get me started and tide me over for a year or so when I plan to move out west. I love to target shoot and want it to be a part of my life. But I've heard that a denial in NJ will show up on a background check in another state, and possibly affect any future sales.

 

Is there any truth to this that anyone knows of? If so, is it worth pursuing a FID card if I don't plan on making NJ my permanent residence?

 

Sorry my first post is this long tome. Any help is appreciated.

[sirsloop 1]

so you answered yes to q26? There is another guy on the forum here that was given three options.

 

1. Withdraw the app.

2. Get denied (then appeal if desired)

3. Spend $1000 bucks for a psych evaulation

 

Not saying that you will get that treatment, but I personally would have answered NO unless I was commited or forced by a court into therapy.

 

Willingly talking about your problems with a shrink is HEALTHY behavior... its a shame that the state looks down upon it when dealing with these FID apps.

[silvertiger27 0]

Yeah, I read over that other thread.

 

I don't think it'll go that far since my therapist definitely won't slander me like that. I'd answer no if I had the choice now, but the detective I spoke to is actually in charge of the applications so...all I can do now is make it look as good as possible.

 

If it DOES go that far though, I want to know if a denial would affect me in the future in another state.

 

Part of me can't believe I even have to ask these questions; I mean, it's a right and I've never even had anything worse than a speeding ticket. It should be a no-brainer. But you're all NJ gun owners, I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you haven't shaken your heads at time and again.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Glad to see you on here, Argo! It's HeadKill from Filforce

[LorenzoS 100]

The nice helpful lady at the police station lied to your face. Seeing a therapist is not treatment for a psychological condition any more than getting a checkup at the doctor is a preexisting condition. This was a manipulative opportunity for her to dig into your confidential health records fishing for a reason to deny you.

[jgofnj 5]

I am afraid I believe LorenzoS on this one.

 

I also agree with sirsloop, you should have answered no. Was the therapist a licensed Medical doctor? I bet not, so answering No would have have been lying.

 

People need to know, almost anyone can be a counselor or therapist. Seeing a Medical doctor or a psychiatrist (who is a medical doctor) is a big difference, they require a medical degree.

 

Most therapist are not Medical doctors, (they can't prescribe medication).

 

I think most people are confused by question #26. If you see a counselor or therapist who is NOT a medical doctor, you should truthfully answer the question as NO.

[sirsloop 1]

We all know what question 26 is asking... have you been commited to seeing a shrink cause you are flippin nuts. If you are not flippin nuts and nobody ever told you that you HAD to go see a shrink say NO! Even if you saw a therapist, say NO... how are they gonna know you went on your own time to talk to someone about some completely unrelated problems. Its not like they have therapist radar or something.

 

Ya know... before you get a gun you really should be asking yourself if its a good idea. If you are not level headed, mature, and sober enough to safely own one then why even put yourself in the position. Then again if you are flippin nuts, immature, or constantly buzzed you may not even know you are a danger to yourself and others. Chances are you already screwed up and thats whats up with Q26.

[jgofnj 5]

sirsloop - 100% correct!

 

Think about it, do you think a background check will reveal that your went to a therapist just to talk about your feelings. No way!!!!

 

That questions (#26) is designed to trap suckers.

[Babaganoosh 192]

 

Ya know... before you get a gun you really should be asking yourself if its a good idea. If you are not level headed, mature, and sober enough to safely own one then why even put yourself in the position. Then again if you are flippin nuts, immature, or constantly buzzed you may not even know you are a danger to yourself and others. Chances are you already screwed up and thats whats up with Q26.

 

 

If you were a nutcase you wouldn't have the self awarness to realize you are a nutcase anyway! Isn't that ironic.

[sirsloop 1]

ya... and you would probably have already busted/screwed up something cause you are a nutcase hence Q26.

[intercooler 41]

ya... and you would probably have already busted/screwed up something cause you are a nutcase hence Q26.

you are gonna need to get an evaluation.UNLESS the doc you saw is ok and not a political activist against you. CALL him and get a feel. You should also make it clear that you are willing to get an evaluation(if denied, you still will need to anyway and doing it now may save you)

I JUST got back from mine and barring any unforseen issues, I am gonna be fine

PM me if you want to get the place I went as they have alot of weight with the PD in NJ as THEY do alot of the officer psych tests...AND they do this specific kind of eval. It isn't cheap, but it is alot cheaper than hiring a defense attorney

[sirsloop 1]

lol... so what do they ask you in the eval? Like if you know the difference between right and wrong in a certain situation?

[intercooler 41]

lol... so what do they ask you in the eval? Like if you know the difference between right and wrong in a certain situation?

has nothing to do with that. you have (depending on where you go) a VERY comprehensive set of tests to take (727 questions) that give the guy an overview of your personality. It is the kind of test that is seemingly random, but you cannot lie (don't try either) The one is the mmpi(don't know the version) and the other was pretty similar . If you are ok, just answer what you feel, don't try to answer any question thinking that you are giving the answer they want as the test is totally random it appears. They then interview you for like an hour and probe for answers on specific ideas that the test brings out.

for me, i had specific things that lead to me seeing a counselor and I explained them. they will ask questions that you won't want to answer, but you will have to.

It is intimidating and I'd be lieing if I said i wasn't a bit anxious.

[sirsloop 1]

actually sounds kinda fun if nothing was riding on the results

[e80hydro 120]

Many of the questions are repeats. They ask you a lot of the same things over and over again, only worded diferently to see if your a liar.

 

I took one years ago for the hell of it and it came up that I was a narsistic asshole. Turns out my astrological sign is Leo, so they said there was nothing wrong with me.

[silvertiger27 0]

The question is just so vague, and it caught me off guard since I wasn't expecting this much of a probe for something a background check would try to find anyway. I'm just a compulsively honest guy, which unfortunately wasn't healthy in this situation. I haven't actually filled out the form yet, but since the detective I talked to handles the forms I can't exactly answer No to 26 now.

 

I'm not "settled down" yet so I think my best bet is to wait and try again later, either after I'm forgotten here or more likely if I move to another town or out of state. Don't really have the money to shell out for a lawyer at this point.

 

Also, the other question was whether a NJ denial shows up in any other state on a background check. I don't know if anyone knows since this is, well, New Jersey but can't hurt to ask

[jgofnj 5]

Yes you can answer "NO" if you did not see a Medical Doctor!!!!! You just tell her it was a non-MD counselor or therapist (assuming that is the truth). READ the question again. Don't be a fool.

 

If you did not in fact see a medical doctor and you still answer Yes to #26, then you will get what you deserve.

[intercooler 41]

Yes you can answer "NO" if you did not see a Medical Doctor!!!!! You just tell her it was a non-MD counselor or therapist (assuming that is the truth). READ the question again. Don't be a fool.

 

If you did not in fact see a medical doctor and you still answer Yes to #26, then you will get what you deserve.

yup...and it depends on the PD

beleive me I know

[tommy3rd 132]

If your app has been submitted, withdraw and wait until you move to America. You're better off.

[Downr@nge 22]

Is it question #25 that you are referring to?

 

#26: Do you suffer from a physical defect or sickness?

 

#25: Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor, psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental institution, on an in-patient or out-patient basis for any mental or psychiatric conditions? If yes, give the name & location of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of the occurrence.

[hopper 36]

Thats why if you need to speak to somebody , go see a PRIEST !!!!!! Ahh the seperation between church and state sometimes isnt a bad thing

[Wavecaster 22]

Is it question #25 that you are referring to?

 

#26: Do you suffer from a physical defect or sickness?

 

#25: Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor, psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental institution, on an in-patient or out-patient basis for any mental or psychiatric conditions? If yes, give the name & location of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of the occurrence.

 

huh?!

 

(25) Are you dependent

upon the use of a narcotic(s)

or other controlled

dangerous substance(s)?

(26) Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental

institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis for any mental or psychiatric condition? If yes, give the name and location

of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of such occurrence.

 

 

copy and pasted it straight off the form which I got from the NJSP's website.

[Downr@nge 22]

huh?!

 

 

 

 

copy and pasted it straight off the form which I got from the NJSP's website.

 

 

NO! You are correct! I just picked up my application from my local PD and they are using the November 2003 version of STS 33! Furthermore, they also ask you to sign a work records release form (which I will NOT sign, one because I'm unemployed, and two because its not required by statute that I sign it)!

 

The STS 33 form on NJSP website is September 2009 version.

[Maksim 1,504]

NO! You are correct! I just picked up my application from my local PD and they are using the November 2003 version of STS 33! Furthermore, they also ask you to sign a work records release form (which I will NOT sign, one because I'm unemployed, and two because its not required by statute that I sign it)!

 

The STS 33 form on NJSP website is September 2009 version.

 

Just tell them you are unemployed and thats it. once again, do you want to be right or effective. There are organizations working on the "right", so if you want your FID, and got nothing to hide, just be effective.

[intercooler 41]

Many of the questions are repeats. They ask you a lot of the same things over and over again, only worded diferently to see if your a liar.

 

I took one years ago for the hell of it and it came up that I was a narsistic asshole. Turns out my astrological sign is Leo, so they said there was nothing wrong with me.

that is not true, they give you the mmpi-2 and another test like it. this test is a series of seeming random questions that are answered specifically by certain KNOWN personality disorder effected people. Through repeated versions, they developed a composite of what normal and ABNORMAL respondents will answer. you cannot lie as this has a built in scale for lie, honesty and embellishing things to make you look good. Answer the questions honestly and if there is nothing wrong, you will be fine.

I suggest that ANYONE faced with this problem wants an effective solution, offer to go to the Institute for forensic Psycholgy in Oakland NJ for an evaluation. This is the ACTUAL place that MOST NJ police candidates go to take their tests in NJ, and they are a worldwide recognized leader in police psych testing.

Most if not all psych dr's are NOT gonna write a letter ok'ing you for a firearm due to our litigious culture.IFP will write it with no problem if you are good, they (the issuance authority)cannot argue with you as they would then be disqualifying their own staff and applicants. Takes 2 weeks for the detailed reports, but they will give you results (preliminary) after the 1 hour interview. It is ALOT cheaper than an appeal(which will guarantee you having to get an evaluation anyway)I took this route and was successful in my FID application.

if you need more info, pm me and I can go over it with you

good luck

[joecs1 11]

1st... were you treated with meds by a DR? Or did you go see a therapist? if you only saw a therapist, therapist is no DR. If that is the case your answer should be "no".

I think the answer is "NO" to question 26. PERIOD! THE END! As long as you havnt been treated for depression etc with meds or a DR. You went to a therapist for help in dealling with life situations. Divorce etc, how to move on and learn to open up to women and girlfriends and trust, because your ex hurt you! Therapy is just more or less, non-biased advice. I went to therapy and it was great advice.

On a side note....If your local police are using an "out-dated" form, down load the new version and turn that one in and let them know that is the current form required by the state police. If you are answering the question "no", which is what I think you should if it was just a therapist, tell the Detective that is your answer and you were not treated by a DR. Anything further is not their business because it was NOT a DR! If you were treated by a Dr of any sort, phychiatrist and or phycologist, all bets are off. Consult an attorney!