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Buying ammo online


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#1 elmo iscariot

elmo iscariot

Posted 16 September 2010 - 06:36 PM

How do NJ laws deal with buying ammo through mail order? With our ridiculous laws about recording FIDs to buy "pistol ammunition", I assume you can't mail order it, but NJ gun laws are so convoluted it's hard to tell.

I know people _do_ it, but is it legal? And doesn't ammo have to be shipped with a big sticker identifying it as ammo? Doesn't that invite legal complications or theft?

Thanks.

#2 LorenzoS

LorenzoS

Posted 16 September 2010 - 06:49 PM

It's perfectly legal. Yes the shipment has a "small arms cartridges" sticker by law, in addition to whatever labeling was on the shipping box. I would not have it shipped someplace where the package will be left on a doorstep.

If you know the carrier the vendor will use, you can have any package shipped "Hold for Pickup" for free at the Fedex or UPS hub. Check their websites for how to do it, but basically you put the shipping address as "John Smith, hold for pickup at Fedex location, <address of the hub you want to use>." Or, you can have any package shipped to you care of any Fedex Store or UPS Store for a $5 fee. Just call them first to verify.
Godammit New Jersey. Godammit.

#3 Fullhouse

Fullhouse

Posted 16 September 2010 - 06:55 PM

Hello Elmo,I too had these same questions.I did a little research here on the forums,and found out that online vendors handle selling ammo to us folks in NJ in several ways.

So I just started ordering from a few differnt vendors and have good experiences with all of them.So far only one of the vendors has required me to provide a copy of my NJ FPID to purchase ammo.That vendor was http://www.luckygunner.com/

After they received my email with attached photocopy of FPID they shipped the order out very quickly.

All of my ammo shipments have come unmarked as to the nature of the contents in the package,and most have been left at the back door as we receive shipments from both ups and fedex frequently.

Hope some of this helps
Roland

#4 Maksim

Maksim
  • LocationEast Windsor, NJ
  • Home Range:CJRPC Ask me to check it out.

Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:31 PM

Yes you can have it shipped.

Depends on the vendor how they do it.

Cabelas just ships it regularly, doesnt ask for copy of FID.

Aim Surplus ships to home, however asks for NJ FID to be kept on file.

#5 BRaptor

BRaptor
  • LocationClifton, NJ
  • Home Range:Bullet Hole

Posted 16 September 2010 - 08:47 PM

In my non-legal opinion and to state it generally, New Jersey cannot regulate, punish or restrict sales from vendors out of state. Luckygunner may be governed by a law in its own state that may say Luckgunner has to comply with the state laws to which it ships ammunition (I'm just guessing here).

If NJ were to try to force an out of state vendor to comply with NJ's (messed up) laws, that would fall under NJ attempting to regulate interstate commerce. Under the US Constitution, regulating interstate commerce is strictly the federal government's realm (with certain exceptions), even when the federal government hasn't made a law.

So, no, you shouldn't need an FID to buy out of state ammo and NJ cannot punish you for purchasing ammunition from an out of state vendor who doesn't ask for your FID.
"[S]o what [the City of Chicago] must mean is that the Second Amendment should be singled out for special—and specially unfavorable—treatment. We reject that suggestion." McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. ___, 130 S.Ct. 3020 (2010).


We're gonna need lawyers, guns and money to get out of this!

#6 Pizza Bob

Pizza Bob
  • LocationCentral/West NJ - Mercer County
  • Home Range:EFGA or wherever someone will guest me in

Posted 17 September 2010 - 08:23 AM

After they received my email with attached photocopy of FPID they shipped the order out very quickly.



Folks, if you do this, remember to redact your SS# on the back of the card. Not just so the vendor doesn't have it, but also because e-mail isn't secure.
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#7 Caine

Caine
  • LocationEssex County
  • Home Range:Cherry Ridge/BulletHole/Bayonne/Range14

Posted 17 September 2010 - 11:44 AM

Folks, if you do this, remember to redact your SS# on the back of the card. Not just so the vendor doesn't have it, but also because e-mail isn't secure.

When I sent mine in to AIM, I just copied and sent them the front of the card. That said, my FPID doesn't have a SS# anywhere on it...
-Pete
"I care not what others think of what I do, but I care very much about what I think of what I do." - Theodore Roosevelt
Όποιος γίνεται πρόβατο, τον τρώει ο λύκος

#8 Tactical Monkey

Tactical Monkey
  • LocationCamden County
  • Home Range:SJSC

Posted 17 September 2010 - 12:29 PM

When I sent mine in to AIM, I just copied and sent them the front of the card. That said, my FPID doesn't have a SS# anywhere on it...


+1
New Jersey Range Locations and Info
"High speed low drag"

#9 FFDP82

FFDP82

Posted 17 September 2010 - 12:40 PM

Cope's
Ammunition to Go

Do not need to see your permits/driver's license

BRaptor above hit the nail on the head

#10 Pizza Bob

Pizza Bob
  • LocationCentral/West NJ - Mercer County
  • Home Range:EFGA or wherever someone will guest me in

Posted 17 September 2010 - 12:45 PM

That said, my FPID doesn't have a SS# anywhere on it...



Maybe mine is just older (like me) - acquired before they made SS# optional
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#11 elmo iscariot

elmo iscariot

Posted 17 September 2010 - 06:09 PM

Good to know. Thanks, everybody. Time to start saving up for some bulk purchases.

If NJ were to try to force an out of state vendor to comply with NJ's (messed up) laws, that would fall under NJ attempting to regulate interstate commerce. Under the US Constitution, regulating interstate commerce is strictly the federal government's realm (with certain exceptions), even when the federal government hasn't made a law.


Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure states can still regulate how their citizens mail order products. Didn't California's recent new ammo law make so many headaches for internet dealers that they stopped selling to CA residents?

edit: Obviously they _shouldn't_ be able to regulate interstate commerce, but if we were taking the Constitution seriously, we'd be able to buy our _guns_ over the internet.

#12 BRaptor

BRaptor
  • LocationClifton, NJ
  • Home Range:Bullet Hole

Posted 17 September 2010 - 11:21 PM

Yes, NJ could pass a law like CA regarding a NJ citizen's ability to purchase ammunition. And that would be directed toward the citizen's ability to purchase ammunition. But, NJ's ammunition-FID requirements put the burden on the DEALER to see the FID and record specific information about the purchaser. Thus, this is regulating the seller, not the buyer-citizen.

The NJ statute doesn't say "no citizen shall purchase ammunition without showing an FID." The NJ statute says something to the order of all dealers selling "[potential handgun ammunition]" must see an FID. This is where NJ is slightly less horrible than CA. From my reading, the NJ statute doesn't regulate citizen-purchasers, so there shouldn't be a problem with you buying ammo online.

edit: Obviously they _shouldn't_ be able to regulate interstate commerce, but if we were taking the Constitution seriously, we'd be able to buy our _guns_ over the internet.


Ah, but you can buy your guns over the internet. You just have to have an interstate purchase shipped to an FFL. And the requirement to have the gun shipped to an FFL is a federal law. And the federal government is the only one that can make that law (supposedly). Intrastate private sales can still take place face-to-face last time I checked.
"[S]o what [the City of Chicago] must mean is that the Second Amendment should be singled out for special—and specially unfavorable—treatment. We reject that suggestion." McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. ___, 130 S.Ct. 3020 (2010).


We're gonna need lawyers, guns and money to get out of this!

#13 KpdPipes

KpdPipes
  • LocationKeansburg, Monmouth County
  • Home Range:CJRPC

Posted 18 September 2010 - 09:52 PM

Good to know. Thanks, everybody. Time to start saving up for some bulk purchases.



Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure states can still regulate how their citizens mail order products. Didn't California's recent new ammo law make so many headaches for internet dealers that they stopped selling to CA residents?

edit: Obviously they _shouldn't_ be able to regulate interstate commerce, but if we were taking the Constitution seriously, we'd be able to buy our _guns_ over the internet.

Guess I need to Send back the remington 700, and ithaca 37 i just bought through Gunbroker then huh???? you CAN buy Guns over the internet..otherwise GunBroker, Auctionarms, gunsamerica, and hell our own and ARF's EE couldnt exist..you just need to go theorgh an FFL for any interstate trnasactions....just likw with everythign else...ANYWHERE ELSE>

#14 PK90

PK90

    NRA Life Benefactor Member

  • NJGF Vendor FFL
  • 7,216 posts
  • LocationArizona
  • Home Range:The Desert

Posted 19 September 2010 - 06:44 AM

Yes, NJ could pass a law like CA regarding a NJ citizen's ability to purchase ammunition. And that would be directed toward the citizen's ability to purchase ammunition. But, NJ's ammunition-FID requirements put the burden on the DEALER to see the FID and record specific information about the purchaser. Thus, this is regulating the seller, not the buyer-citizen.

The NJ statute doesn't say "no citizen shall purchase ammunition without showing an FID." The NJ statute says something to the order of all dealers selling "[potential handgun ammunition]" must see an FID. This is where NJ is slightly less horrible than CA. From my reading, the NJ statute doesn't regulate citizen-purchasers, so there shouldn't be a problem with you buying ammo online.

Ah, but you can buy your guns over the internet. You just have to have an interstate purchase shipped to an FFL. And the requirement to have the gun shipped to an FFL is a federal law. And the federal government is the only one that can make that law (supposedly). Intrastate private sales can still take place face-to-face last time I checked.

One does need a FPID to acquire handgun ammunition (and long gun ammunition according to the Admin Code) whether they show it or possess it. Even citizen-purchasers. Is this not regulating the online purchase?

No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, or receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire handgun ammunition unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder is licensed as a manufacturer, wholesaler, or dealer under this chapter or is the holder of and possesses a valid firearms purchaser identification card, a valid copy of a permit to purchase a handgun, or a valid permit to carry a handgun and first exhibits such card or permit to the seller, donor, transferor or assignor.


* * * Estrella Ordnance * * *


#15 elmo iscariot

elmo iscariot

Posted 20 September 2010 - 03:13 AM

Ah, but you can buy your guns over the internet. You just have to have an interstate purchase shipped to an FFL. And the requirement to have the gun shipped to an FFL is a federal law. And the federal government is the only one that can make that law (supposedly). Intrastate private sales can still take place face-to-face last time I checked.


My first handgun was from GunBroker. :)

What I mean is that if we were taking the Constitution--in particular, the 2A--seriously, we wouldn't have all the useless burdens of the 1968 GCA, and would be able to mail-order guns without involving local gun dealers.

#16 Sigman

Sigman
  • Home Range:Bullet Hole or Cherry Ridge

Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:36 AM

You don't need to send your FID if you buy from Cabela's or Sprotsman Guide. Look for the sales. You want to hear something funny - Cabela's will ship ammunition to my house, but won't ship primers or powder. I have to ship the primers or powder to NYC of all places.
Rick
NRA, ANJRPC & NJ2AS

4 more years of this train wreck!

#17 EchoMirage

EchoMirage

Posted 20 September 2010 - 09:44 PM

i buy ammo from cheaper then dirt all the time, never a problem.

A citizen may not be required to offer a good and substantial reason why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.


#18 BRaptor

BRaptor
  • LocationClifton, NJ
  • Home Range:Bullet Hole

Posted 20 September 2010 - 11:16 PM

One does need a FPID to acquire handgun ammunition (and long gun ammunition according to the Admin Code) whether they show it or possess it. Even citizen-purchasers. Is this not regulating the online purchase?


You're absolutely right.

Another reason to re-read the statute before posting. I went too far in my discussion.
"[S]o what [the City of Chicago] must mean is that the Second Amendment should be singled out for special—and specially unfavorable—treatment. We reject that suggestion." McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. ___, 130 S.Ct. 3020 (2010).


We're gonna need lawyers, guns and money to get out of this!

#19 rifleman

rifleman
  • Home Range:CJRPC

Posted 24 September 2010 - 07:22 PM

Ask hw it is shipped and be careful where it goes to. I have had stuff left outside, did not like that. Shipping to work is also risky unless you recieve at the door.

#20 Soju

Soju
  • Home Range:Around the neighborhood

Posted 10 January 2011 - 01:22 AM

As I don't have a FPID I buy all my ammo online, (resident of a free state, I just happen to be stuck in NJ). I have found that many places will sell pistol ammunition, while others do not. Some sites clearly state you must fax/email them a copy of your FPID, but not all. From what I have found...

WILL ship without FPID

Cheaper than dirt
Gander Mountain
Natchez
Cabelas
SGAmmo

will NOT ship without FPID

Lucy Gunner
Palmetto State Armory
Midway USA
Aim Surplus

I know there are many others. I wasn't aware of all the ones that didn't, and had to have an order canceled because of it. I received an email and they sent me this link http://www.njleg.sta...s/AL07/318_.PDF saying it does apply to online sales. Still not sure I see that but oh well, I found ammo cheaper on another site after anyways.

#21 VaultDweller

VaultDweller
  • LocationVault 13
  • Home Range:Shore Shot

Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:42 PM

Mine too!

My first handgun was from GunBroker. Posted Image


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Ruger Mark III Target
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