SAF v NJ (MULLER et al v. MAENZA et al)

[BigHayden 77]

Count me in as well. I believe that a coordinated effort would be the best approach.

[Alex V 99]

im ready on the word go...

 

this is the application right? http://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearms/sp-642.pdf

[A-Tech 8]

I'm in. Can't hurt to try if we're given the green light.

[kwadz 11]

Guys, I'm all for this strategically when time is due, but one thing to consider is that if you all apply now, they can come back and accept all of ours (for just this one instance) and then claim to the courts (in the current case or in our SCOTUS appeal, if it goes that far) that they accepted 100% of the applications from "common Joe" folks such as ourselves. Then the case gets dropped and we are left with our Justifiable Need clause. When we attempt to reapply in 2 years (or whatever the expiration), we get turned down and it's back to business as usual. Like Frank said, it's free will and I'm not telling you guys not to do it, but please consider how it can be used against us in the long term.

[ryan_j 0]

Yes, of course. When the time is right. So I think it's best we hold off for now.

[dimitrge 10]

Count me in as well. I'm right in cryans backyard .

[ChrisJM981 924]

Guys, I'm all for this strategically when time is due, but one thing to consider is that if you all apply now, they can come back and accept all of ours (for just this one instance) and then claim to the courts (in the current case or in our SCOTUS appeal, if it goes that far) that they accepted 100% of the applications from "common Joe" folks such as ourselves. Then the case gets dropped and we are left with our Justifiable Need clause. When we attempt to reapply in 2 years (or whatever the expiration), we get turned down and it's back to business as usual. Like Frank said, it's free will and I'm not telling you guys not to do it, but please consider how it can be used against us in the long term.

 

Yeah I'm thinking along these lines too. That's why the State had the court grant the guy that was kidnapped a permit well into the case. The State knew with him as a plaintiff they had a greater chance of losing. Hold tight.

 

In Gura We Trust

[millsan1 3]

But I neeaaad a CCW now.

[A-Tech 8]

But I neeaaad a CCW now.

RIGHT MEOW

[lunker 274]

RIGHT MEOW

 

Super Troopers always friggin' kills me when I watch it. My wife just rolls here eyes. She just doesn't get it.

[millsan1 3]

My fiancee loves ST and guns and motorcycles. Definition of a keeper.

[BigHayden 77]

Guys, I'm all for this strategically when time is due, but one thing to consider is that if you all apply now, they can come back and accept all of ours (for just this one instance) and then claim to the courts (in the current case or in our SCOTUS appeal, if it goes that far) that they accepted 100% of the applications from "common Joe" folks such as ourselves. Then the case gets dropped and we are left with our Justifiable Need clause. When we attempt to reapply in 2 years (or whatever the expiration), we get turned down and it's back to business as usual. Like Frank said, it's free will and I'm not telling you guys not to do it, but please consider how it can be used against us in the long term.

 

kwadz,

 

I think you might be misreading our intentions. We're all expressing a willingness to apply and be denied if the legal eagles think it's a good idea. I believe that we all understand that anything we do on our own has the potential to backfire and do more harm than good. But by coming on here and saying that we're willing to apply, if need be, then Frank, Gura, and Bach have an idea of how many of us are out there, should they choose to call on us to apply.

[Njgunowner 2]

The right time would have been 2010. It's a little late now, the state won't have those "statistics" for a year or two to be ready to submit to the courts. You notice they didn't include 2012.

[azmaveth 1]

kwadz,

 

I think you might be misreading our intentions. We're all expressing a willingness to apply and be denied if the legal eagles think it's a good idea. I believe that we all understand that anything we do on our own has the potential to backfire and do more harm than good. But by coming on here and saying that we're willing to apply, if need be, then Frank, Gura, and Bach have an idea of how many of us are out there, should they choose to call on us to apply.

 

If needed, I'll apply too.

[A-Tech 8]

The right time would have been 2010. It's a little late now, the state won't have those "statistics" for a year or two to be ready to submit to the courts. You notice they didn't include 2012.

 

If denied, you could present denial paperwork at the hearing. By their stats, 18 out of 20 people would be approved. If we get 100 of 100 people to show denial, it could be a slight favor to the cause.

[quikz 34]

All,

 

Pls keep in mind, 99.9% of all the already pathetically miniscule civilian CCW's allegedly issued by NJ, are RESTRICTED 'permits' and state right on the permit, "while working only" and "Must be strictly adhered to.." etc.

 

You may not 'neead' a list of CCW denials. Just show the already pathetically minisculed issued CCW's which are all already heavily HEAVILY "restricted" already.

 

Nullifying NJ's own already weak defense.

[Rysdad 5]

Dammit! I got Neeead in my brain. Damn that woman!

[Pythagoras 2]

All,

 

Pls keep in mind, 99.9% of all the already pathetically miniscule civilian CCW's allegedly issued by NJ, are RESTRICTED 'permits' and state right on the permit, "while working only" and "Must be strictly adhered to.." etc.

 

You may not 'neead' a list of CCW denials. Just show the already pathetically minisculed issued CCW's which are all already heavily HEAVILY "restricted" already.

 

Nullifying NJ's own defense.

 

Interesting. I don't remember hearing Gura talk about this in court. Sounds like this would help him slam dunk against NJ saying "the 2A only applies in your house or if you're a security guard" - yeah, right.

 

Maybe the time wasn't right to mention this yet.

[n4p226r 105]

Anyone have a clue what the waiting time should be? Ballpark even? Summer? Fall? 2014?

[BigHayden 77]

I think the 3rd Circuit opinion will be handed down at the end of the session (Septemberish?), but it's likely to be appealed. So we're still over a year (more like 2) away from a final ruling.

 

So to answer the question before Ray Ray asks, "No, we can't carry yet."

[ryan_j 0]

I thought it was around December.

 

Anyway, look at the timeline for Chicago:

 

http://blogs.suntimes.com/politics/2012/12/big_win_for_gun-rights_groups_federal_appeals_court_tosses_state_ban_on_carrying_concealed_weapons.html

[NJPatriot 0]

Oral Arguments were in early February 2013. Gura crushed the Ass't NJ AG. Can't believe it would take 7 (Sept) -10 (Dec) months for the 3rd Circuit to make a decision.

[PDM 91]

Circuit courts of appeals decisions don't need to wait until the end of the session (I'm not sure there is a fixed session for the circuit court of appeals). A decision could come down any time.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Oral Arguments were in early February 2013. Gura crushed the Ass't NJ AG. Can't believe it would take 7 (Sept) -10 (Dec) months for the 3rd Circuit to make a decision.

 

this decision is going to be difficult for the court. The second amendment is 1 sentence long. Even if you had a hard time understanding the intent of that one sentence, there is plenty of supporting information from the writers of the document. The judge is going to have to work hard to write a decision that is contrary to the second amendment that still sounds plausible. I understand why he would drag his feet.

[millsan1 3]

I have no idea why, but I am listening to the oral arguments again. Jesus is this woman unprepared and stupid.

 

Judge: How do you square the guarantee to arms provided by Heller?

 

MBW: I don't think there is a guarantee.

 

Really? The Supremes put it out there, but you don't agree, so it doesn't exist as law?

 

WOW

[millsan1 3]

The judge who seems to be pro 2A is trying to guide her towards proving her own argument and she argues with him. Just WOW.

[Rysdad 5]

Stop listening before you find a neead to start talking really funny.

[ryan_j 0]

this decision is going to be difficult for the court. The second amendment is 1 sentence long. Even if you had a hard time understanding the intent of that one sentence, there is plenty of supporting information from the writers of the document. The judge is going to have to work hard to write a decision that is contrary to the second amendment that still sounds plausible. I understand why he would drag his feet.

 

I don't see why it's so hard to understand one sentence. The US constitution and the bill of rights was based on state constitutions, many of which state clearly that RKBA is for defense of self and state. In fact some even go as far as to prohibit standing armies unless specifically authorized.

[Bob B 103]

Some light reading...

These are the supplemental briefs that the judges asked for.

You'll definitely find the numbers interesting.

 

02272013 Supplemental Brief of NJ AG.pdf

03042013 Appellants Supplemental Brief.pdf

[NicePants 58]

Some light reading...

These are the supplemental briefs that the judges asked for.

You'll definitely find the numbers interesting.

 

02272013 Supplemental Brief of NJ AG.pdf

03042013 Appellants Supplemental Brief.pdf

 

Damn, Alan Gura can kick their asses on any level.