OGAM now 33 Days?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Two things:

1) This was spoken of in another thread on the board, but it was secondary to the topic and kind of got buried / ignored. I thought the topic worthy of its own thread.

2) I posted this in "Bucket 3" for the widest possible exposure. It may be a more fitting topic for "NJ Gun Laws", but in order to garner the widest viewership / response, I thought it best posted here. I apologize to the moderators if this is inappropriate.

 

Here we go: This is what started it (posted on Shore Shot's website home page)...

 

With the State Police guidelines now clearly defined on the one handgun every 30 days policy, the total wait between handgun purchases is 33 days. 30 day wait and a 3 day administrative grace period. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about this. Thank you, SSPR Management.

 

I'd like to know what in the heck this means. The law stipulates 30 days between purchases counting the day after the sale as day one. There is nothing in the statutes or the administrative code about any "three day administrative grace period" and just what the heck is that.

 

I e-mailed Shore Shot a rather terse e-mail asking (OK, maybe interpreted as demanding) that they document this "clarification". Seems that someone is unilaterally adding conditions to OGAM. Whether that is indeed the NJSP, which is Shore Shot's assertion, or Shore Shot themselves, I have no idea. If the latter, we certainly don't need another gun store spreading falsehoods. If the former, they should have no problem backing this up with some sort of documentation.

 

Have any of the other FFL's on this board received any "clarification" from the NJSP? If so, would you please post a copy of the communication - as Shore Shot has yet to respond to my e-mail.

 

If true, this seems to be a case of "Give'em an inch and they'll take a yard" and needs to be addressed with our legislators NOW. If it's the NJSP, they need to be instructed to follow the letter of the law and not just make it up as they go along. Remember what the statutory 30 day period for processing an FPID application became (with the court's blessing), is the same thing going to happen with the 30 day period specified in OGAM???

 

Would love to have any and all input on this.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[tj462nj 32]

here is what was sent out Bob:

 

1. As you are all no doubt aware, N.I.C.s personnel do not ask a dealer the number of handguns being purchased during a particular transaction.

From this point forward when conducting your check, please advise NICS of transactions involving the sale of more than one handgun. Following this process will eliminate any violations by the dealer of sales of more than one handgun (same transaction).

2. As a reminder, the day of purchase of a handgun is not to be counted as day one of the thirty day period. The easiest rule of thumb to follow is "A day begun is a day done." Adherence to this will eliminate one handgun violations occuring as a result of a sale on the 29th day.

 

2. EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2012, THE THREE DAY GRACE PERIOD ALLOWED BY NICS FOR ANY HANDGUN TRANSACTION BEING ATTEMPTED ON THE 27TH THROUGH 29TH DAY, WITHIN THIRTY DAYS OF ANOTHER HANDGUN TRANSACTION (EXEMPTIONS EXCLUDED) WILL CEASE. ANY BUYER ATTEMPTING TO BUY A HANDGUN WITHIN THAT THREE DAY PERIOD PRIOR TO THIRTY DAYS REQUIRED BY STATUTE WILL BE DENIED.

 

Thanks for you understanding and cooperation.

Should you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

[Malsua 1,422]

So this policy is designed to reduce the potential of 12 guns a year to 10. This goes back to that "Second set of books" thing where administrators rule by fiat. Did this originate from the AG?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

So basically we used to have a 3 day grace period before so we could potentially buy on the 27/28/29th day, and they got rid of that now?

[vjf915 456]

Soooo.....the three day grace period only applies to people trying to buy a second handgun before their 30 days are up? I'm not an expert, but certainly not bad at reading laws.....that one is just damn confusing.

 

Edit:

So basically we used to have a 3 day grace period before so we could potentially buy on the 27/28/29th day, and they got rid of that now?

It appears that Nick got it. I guess that is why you would hear of people purchasing a day or two early, and getting calls from the NJSP. They are now getting rid of that grace period, and you won't be able to buy until the 30th day.

 

So now my question is......WTF is Shore Shot thinking?

[Anselmo 87]

 

 

2. EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2012, THE THREE DAY GRACE PERIOD ALLOWED BY NICS FOR ANY HANDGUN TRANSACTION BEING ATTEMPTED ON THE 27TH THROUGH 29TH DAY, WITHIN THIRTY DAYS OF ANOTHER HANDGUN TRANSACTION (EXEMPTIONS EXCLUDED) WILL CEASE. ANY BUYER ATTEMPTING TO BUY A HANDGUN WITHIN THAT THREE DAY PERIOD PRIOR TO THIRTY DAYS REQUIRED BY STATUTE WILL BE DENIED.

 

 

 

All it says it that 30 days means 30 days. SS just misinterpreted it.

[Maksim 1,504]

Yep, no more ability to buy in Grace Period. Seems to me SS just wants to avoid any potential math issues and going to 33 days to be safe.

[Bob B 103]

All it says it that 30 days means 30 days. SS just misinterpreted it.

 

That's the way I read it.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Given the way most NJ gun laws are written, that was amazingly straight forward. I thank those that published the actual "clarification" in this thread.

 

And, as Victor so eloquently put it, "WTF was Shore Shot thinking?" Why not just post a verbatim quote of the clarification, instead of their own, incorrect, interpretation? This may have already cost them some sales and hopefully, if they read this thread, they will correct their FUBAR statement on their website.

 

Thanks for all the input. Glad we can, favorably, lay this one to rest.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[lunker 274]

The way it was told to me on Wednesday by an SS employee was that Shore Shot was receiving too many calls from State Police for people interpreting OGAM as meaning "one gun a month" instead of "one gun after a 30 day wait from your last one", and getting denied for applying too early.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Glad we can, favorably, lay this one to rest.

 

Actually we can't until Shore Shot understands this the right way.

[PeteF 1,044]

Hey lets lay the blame for this crap where it belongs.

 

First. We've got the most poorly worded general gun laws possible. ie "include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

Second. They then throw on the Handgun Permit Process that should have gone away with the advent of NICS.

Third. Just for yucks ram through a 30 day law at midnight without any thought of its repercussions.

Fourth. Administratively change enforcement of that law whenever.

 

How's about making laws that are straight forward and there is very little chance for interpretation.

 

You can't blame Shoreshot for trying to stay out of trouble.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

 

You can't blame Shoreshot for trying to stay out of trouble.

 

No you can't blame them for trying to stay out of trouble, but to make up and change what is written from what was posted that FFL's have received is an issue.

 

Harry

[M4BGRINGO 139]

here is what was sent out Bob:

 

1. As you are all no doubt aware, N.I.C.s personnel do not ask a dealer the number of handguns being purchased during a particular transaction.

From this point forward when conducting your check, please advise NICS of transactions involving the sale of more than one handgun. Following this process will eliminate any violations by the dealer of sales of more than one handgun (same transaction).

2. As a reminder, the day of purchase of a handgun is not to be counted as day one of the thirty day period. The easiest rule of thumb to follow is "A day begun is a day done." Adherence to this will eliminate one handgun violations occuring as a result of a sale on the 29th day.

 

2. EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2012, THE THREE DAY GRACE PERIOD ALLOWED BY NICS FOR ANY HANDGUN TRANSACTION BEING ATTEMPTED ON THE 27TH THROUGH 29TH DAY, WITHIN THIRTY DAYS OF ANOTHER HANDGUN TRANSACTION (EXEMPTIONS EXCLUDED) WILL CEASE. ANY BUYER ATTEMPTING TO BUY A HANDGUN WITHIN THAT THREE DAY PERIOD PRIOR TO THIRTY DAYS REQUIRED BY STATUTE WILL BE DENIED.

 

Thanks for you understanding and cooperation.

Should you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

 

Man, I am bad with dates, but isn't this still the year of 2011....................

 

That statement above is dated for 1/1/2012, what am I missing here?

[PK90 3,570]

Something is amiss with this letter:

 

1. The date is wrong

2. There are two number 2s

3. I never received such letter

 

Maybe I can clarify something here. The 3 day grace period that is refered to is a federal NICS standard. If someone were to be delayed/pending, NICS had 3 days to either deny or approve the transfer. If they did neither within the 3 days, the transfer is automatically approved.

 

Also, when NICS approves a transfer, it is good for 30 days. One could basically fill out the 4473, have the transfer approved, and then return 29 days later to pickup their firearm. What the NJSP was doing is delaying the approval if the purchaser had purchased a handgun within 30 days. They then would call back with an approval when the 30 days are up. Should this happen to fall outside of the 3 day federal grace period, but prior to the 30 day NJ OGAM law, one would be federally approved and NJ disapproved.

 

So what I am getting from this letter is that they will no longer delay someone from day 27 through day 29, they will deny the transfer. The NJSP is taking it upon themselves to act as Big brother and make sure YOU and the dealer do not violate the law, even though it goes against what federal law states.

 

Also, should one wish to buy a long gun and a handgun at the same time to avoid two NICS fees, say on day 29 (the buyer does not intend to take possession of the handgun until the next day), one will be denied because of the NJ 30 day OGAM law. So, you must pay for two checks.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I agree with Paul. I do try to plan-out purchases so I only have to pay for one NICS call at a time, instead of paying for the call one day, then come-back three days later for the handgun and pay for the call again.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

The way it was told to me on Wednesday by an SS employee was that Shore Shot was receiving too many calls from State Police for people interpreting OGAM as meaning "one gun a month" instead of "one gun after a 30 day wait from your last one", and getting denied for applying too early.

They are really having that many issues with it? From my understanding it is not the dealers responsibility on the 30 day rule, i can buy a gun at one shop and go to another the next day and just lie my a** off. How can the burden fall on the FFL?

[bry@n 195]

So am I correct in saying that you may purchase a gun or do the nics in 31 days from buying the previous gun?

 

They said the day you buy is not considered day one. So the day after is considered day 1 and on the 30th day your eligible? That would mean it's still 31 days after?

[PK90 3,570]

This is how I interpret it. Click on the below file.

OGAM_Example.pdf

[bry@n 195]

Thanks. So it really is just an extra day from what I thought previously. Since the handgun purchase is not day 1.

[djg0770 481]

so - they're reinterpreting this and it's really a thirty ONE day wait. Mother f-ers. I hate hate hate this state.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

No reinterpretation, this is the way it was always meant to be - 30 days between purchases.

[PK90 3,570]

"Only one handgun shall be purchased or delivered on each permit and no more than one handgun shall be purchased within any 30-day period"

 

IMO, the key word is "within". Therefore, there must be 30 days "between" each transfer.

[djg0770 481]

"Only one handgun shall be purchased or delivered on each permit and no more than one handgun shall be purchased within any 30-day period"

 

IMO, the key word is "within". Therefore, there must be 30 days "between" each transfer.

 

Wait - lemme find the statute - I think it's here between two sweaty cheeks... Personally, I think this law STINKS.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

 

They said the day you buy is not considered day one. So the day after is considered day 1 and on the 30th day your eligible? That would mean it's still 31 days after?

 

That is right, the day you buy it it not to be counted, the next day would be the first day that you have now bought a handgun, right?

 

If we counted the day you bought it and applied it to,,,,oh,,, lets say how old you are, would you not be a year older????

 

Harry

[PK90 3,570]

Let me simplify my logic further.

 

The law states that "only one handgun shall be purchased or delivered on each permit and no more than one handgun shall be purchased within any 30-day period".

 

If the 30-day period was changed to a 1-day period, it would read "Only one handgun shall be purchased or delivered on each permit and no more than one handgun shall be purchased within any 1-day period".

 

Now, if one were to purchase a handgun on Monday and tried to purchase a handgun on Tuesday, it would be within a 1-day period, therefore not allowed. The second purchase would have to be on Wednesday. The key word is "within".

 

Therefore, there must be 30 days "between" each transfer.