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NJ Transport Laws Regarding Handguns and Campgrounds


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#1 this_is_nascar

this_is_nascar
  • LocationGloucester City, NJ
  • Home Range:None at This Time

Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:05 PM

I have a seasonal campsite, in a public campground, that I pay an annual fee to occupy. As it relates to NJ transport laws for handguns, would the campground be an acceptable residence or exception? I'd like to be able to legally transport from home, to campsite, to range and back to either the campground then home or directly from the range to home, which is obviously perfectly legal to do.
-Ray-
_____

"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". --- Wayne LaPierre 12/21/2012

#2 BD104X

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  • LocationFreehold, NJ
  • Home Range:Shore Shot

Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:45 PM

I'm curious to see what everyone on here has to say about this. I have a 35' motorhome and, oddly enough, NJ's super-clear firearms laws don't cover this!
Personally, I treat it as transporting when I'm driving (un-loaded in the motorhome safe) but once I put the leveling jacks down & the slide-out extended, it's next to my bed loaded. I'm not sure the law would see it this way, but anyone whose spent a night in a rest area when traveling would probably agree - it's a risk I'm willing to take.

#3 Dan

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  • LocationMatawan, NJ
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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:07 PM

IMO, IANAL

I'm not sure if a seasonally rented RV campsite location could qualify as a legal residence in NJ. Everything hinges on this. If it is akin to a rental property, like people rent houses down the shore for the summer, etc, it should be. Its really your risk appetite that you have to think about here. If you did have illegal possession charges slapped on, you will have to prove you are within the exemptions and would have to prove that your RV and the campsite is a "residence" or "land owned or possessed" by you.

#4 tj462nj

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  • LocationBayville
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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:07 PM

when I asked the state police this question, they responded "its one of those gray areas", which means no one really knows til something happens & a judge decides

#5 TheDon

TheDon
  • LocationLumberton, NJ
  • Home Range:Central Jersey Rifle & Pistol Club, Delran JMC

Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:08 PM

Going to watch this one too.
I too believe the statutes are silent on this gray area.

I had someone explain it as:
Hotel: only a residence when used as an apartment for extended-stays when no other NJ residence exists.
Motor-homes: motor-home parked and set up in a camp sight is a residence, motor-home on the road or parked in a roadside rest is a motor vehicle.
Trailers and campers: not a residence.

But, I do not know any of the above for certain.

Edited by TheDon, 04 September 2012 - 03:09 PM.

NJ State Motto: Liberty* and Prosperity**.
*Restrictions apply. **Void where prohibited.

#6 Rifleman1

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:10 PM

I'm curious to see what everyone on here has to say about this. I have a 35' motorhome and, oddly enough, NJ's super-clear firearms laws don't cover this!
Personally, I treat it as transporting when I'm driving (un-loaded in the motorhome safe) but once I put the leveling jacks down & the slide-out extended, it's next to my bed loaded. I'm not sure the law would see it this way, but anyone whose spent a night in a rest area when traveling would probably agree - it's a risk I'm willing to take.


Ahhh.. interested in seeing feedback on both scenarios. Was thinking about buying an RV/Motor Home for retirement and using it at various campsites.

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"Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
-- Patrick Henry [3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836]


#7 Soju

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  • Home Range:Around the neighborhood

Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:18 PM

I agree with most of the above. In the absence of any clear answer in the statutes that neither explicitly allow or prohibit it, I would say it is up to you. What level of risk are you willing to accept? The ability to protect yourself/family vs. not. Having a gun in your possession legally vs. illegally. Would you rather risk having an illegal gun but the ability to defend yourself better or lesser means to defend yourself because you have no gun at all?

I don't think I nor anyone else can answer those questions for you. If however someone can find a better answer or something in the code that has relevance to this specifically, that is a different story. I haven't had any luck doing so though.

#8 BD104X

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  • LocationFreehold, NJ
  • Home Range:Shore Shot

Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

I'm sure if I came out of my motorhome with my 9mm during a traffic altercation at 2:00pm I'd be in a world of trouble, but I'd hope like hell if I ever had to defend myself or at least chase off someone attempting entry into my "temporary residence" at 2:00am in a dark rest area or wooded campground that the responding LEO would see the situation for what it was.

#9 this_is_nascar

this_is_nascar
  • LocationGloucester City, NJ
  • Home Range:None at This Time

Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:43 PM

I have no intent of doing this, unless I'm 100% certain it would not be a legal problem. I'm not about to be the one to "find out" how it works out. It's just something that came up during discussion over the weekend, at the campground, and I didn't recall reading anything certain about it.
-Ray-
_____

"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". --- Wayne LaPierre 12/21/2012

#10 Dan

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  • LocationMatawan, NJ
  • Home Range:CJRPC

Posted 04 September 2012 - 03:59 PM

IMO play it safe and bring a long gun (unloaded of course).... at least the law is clear when it comes to that.

#11 BigHayden

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  • LocationWest Deptford
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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:05 PM

I agree with most of the above. In the absence of any clear answer in the statutes that neither explicitly allow or prohibit it, I would say it is up to you.


In the United States, unless something is prohibited by law, then it is legal. NJ 2C:39-5(b) states: Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.
2C:39-6 then carves out the very specific exceptions to 2C:39-5. So, if you don't have a permit to carry or see the specific activity in the exceptions, then it comes under 2C:39-5 and would be illegal.
Laws do not prevent a single crime; they only define them.
-Paraphrased from John Longenecker

#12 TheDon

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  • LocationLumberton, NJ
  • Home Range:Central Jersey Rifle & Pistol Club, Delran JMC

Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:45 PM

2C:39-5 allows for an exception in your place of residence. The question is whether a camper is a residence. That is a gray area that to my knowledge has never been tested.
NJ State Motto: Liberty* and Prosperity**.
*Restrictions apply. **Void where prohibited.

#13 Soju

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  • Home Range:Around the neighborhood

Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:18 PM

Exactly. NJ is backwards from the rest of the US. When it comes to firearms, they are illegal except under various exemptions. As TheDon said, a handgun is legal at your residence. The question remains, does a motor home parked at a rented spot of a campground count? Maybe in some NJ statute this is defined, but I'm not sure where. If it isn't, then we can't know if it is legal or illegal.



In the United States, unless something is prohibited by law, then it is legal.
2C:39-6 then carves out the very specific exceptions to 2C:39-5. So, if you don't have a permit to carry or see the specific activity in the exceptions, then it comes under 2C:39-5 and would be illegal.



#14 TK421

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  • LocationOcean County

Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:55 AM

In the United States, unless something is prohibited by law, then it is legal. NJ 2C:39-5(b) states: Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.
2C:39-6 then carves out the very specific exceptions to 2C:39-5. So, if you don't have a permit to carry or see the specific activity in the exceptions, then it comes under 2C:39-5 and would be illegal.

2C:39-5 allows for an exception in your place of residence. The question is whether a camper is a residence. That is a gray area that to my knowledge has never been tested.

Exactly. NJ is backwards from the rest of the US. When it comes to firearms, they are illegal except under various exemptions. As TheDon said, a handgun is legal at your residence. The question remains, does a motor home parked at a rented spot of a campground count? Maybe in some NJ statute this is defined, but I'm not sure where. If it isn't, then we can't know if it is legal or illegal.


The issue here is, as the New Jersey law is currently written, it is a prior restraint on a civil right. New Jersey has turned the fundamental legal principal of the presumption of innocence on its head. They start out with a blanket prohibition of a now incorporated constitutionally protected individual right and then force someone thus charged to prove under which exemption in the law they claim to be not guilty. At some point this will get in front a federal judge and New Jersey will get the ass beating it has long deserved. As most of you know, or should know by now, the legal precedent validating New Jersey's gun laws, Burton v. Sills (1968), is now, post Heller and McDonald, bad law. It is only a matter of time before this all gets corrected. What concerns me the most is what the libtards will come up with next trying to reassert their stupidity once the current law is struck down.
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

#15 Zeke

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  • LocationDown by the river
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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:35 AM

2C:39-5 allows for an exception in your place of residence. The question is whether a camper is a residence. That is a gray area that to my knowledge has never been tested.


I know for tax purposes my rv is considered a second home.
Food for thought.

#16 Smokin .50

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  • LocationNear Old Bridge NJ
  • Home Range:Old Bridge, Monmouth, Cherry Ridge, on the Farm in Vernon!

Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:17 AM

Woulda-shoulda-coulda-------

Just buy a 18.5" tubed 20 or 12 ga. and keep it in the "bedroom" all of the way in the back of the RV. No hand gun laws to break.....

Some Campgrounds have written policies regarding weapons, so check BEFORE you book their sites. NJ State Parks come to mind........

If you're retired and spend more time "on-the-road" RV'ng than you do in a 4-walled residence, your RV becomes your primary residense in some states. Other states rely upon which state you vote in....

This is off the top of my head from what I can remember from friends who have explored all of this prior to retiring. Just another reason to do what you think is right, and stay in places like PA that's gun-friendly!

Dave
Being SAFE is my FIRST priority. Bring enough Gun & have all of the Fun you can Handle! Have 10 Ga., WILL knock Pheasants out of the Sky!

#17 BD104X

BD104X
  • LocationFreehold, NJ
  • Home Range:Shore Shot

Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:23 PM

I don't own any long guns and have no desire to. Also, I have my Florida CCW permit, so when I travel I can CCW in many of the states so I don't want to just leave my handguns at home. I'm a firm believer in "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6", so I intend to continue as I have, I was just curious what others thought since this forum seems to have a better grasp of NJ gun laws than most of the people who create & enforce them!

#18 Parker

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:26 PM

As Dave noted, as far as New Jersey Parks & campgrounds are concerned; firearms are prohibited: http://www.state.nj..../camprules.html

"Firearms — A person shall not possess or discharge any firearm, pellet gun, bow and arrow, slingshot or other weapon capable of injuring people or wildlife. Hunters in compliance with Division of Fish, Game and Wildlife hunting laws are exempted. Target practice is prohibited."

If only Jack O'Connor had written about the .270's effectiveness on Zombies, he might be known today as a decent gun scribe, and that cartridge might enjoy more widespread use...

 

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#19 PDM

PDM

Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:32 PM

With the usual this isn't legal advice caveat: You are only partially quoting the statue in 2C:39-5. It refers to your residence or "premises". What are premises? One could argue that this is intended to include the land you own around your residence, but wouldn't an RV in which you are sleeping, in a legal, designated campground also be your premises? This would be particularly true if you were in an RV camp where you paid a rental/lease fee to stay there. Who knows, but the bottom line is you'd at least have an argument. I think it would all come down to the circumstances. If you were asleep in your RV and someone broke in during the night and you shot him, you'd have a much easier time (especially if he was armed) than if it was daytime or you got into some sort of an altercation, etc.

#20 Adam

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  • LocationUnion Beach, NJ
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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:53 PM

I asked my MIL about their camper.. It has a mortgage and according to the IRS it is a home.
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#21 TheDon

TheDon
  • LocationLumberton, NJ
  • Home Range:Central Jersey Rifle & Pistol Club, Delran JMC

Posted 07 September 2012 - 03:14 PM

All good points. But it does not matter whether a RV is a residence in some states, or whether the IRS considers it a home. All that matters is whether NJ criminal statutes would consider it a "residence."

Who wants to be first to test this in court, and appeal after appeal after appeal?
Not me, I have better things to do with my retirement fund than give it to a lawyer.
I woluld not carry a handgun in a camper in NJ. I second the shotgun advice above.
NJ State Motto: Liberty* and Prosperity**.
*Restrictions apply. **Void where prohibited.

#22 PK90

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 04:37 PM

I believe that if there has been case law that allows the police to search a motor vehicle easily without a warrant, and that that would never fly for a home, it shows me that a motor home would not be considered a home for firearm possession applications.

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#23 flbound163

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  • LocationNJ
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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:43 PM

Sorry to hyjack, but hypothetical situation.

What if said camper was parked on rural land that you have leased year round (with your name on the lease)? Not talking public campgrounds or anything like that.....Land I possess. Does it seem reasonable that this would be covered under possession exception #1?

"To keep or carry any firearm about a person's place of business, residence, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him; a place of business shall be deemed a fixed location."

Thanks

#24 TheDon

TheDon
  • LocationLumberton, NJ
  • Home Range:Central Jersey Rifle & Pistol Club, Delran JMC

Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:20 PM

IMHO, good to go.
NJ State Motto: Liberty* and Prosperity**.
*Restrictions apply. **Void where prohibited.




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