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Legal Muzzle Devices


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#1 TheDon

TheDon
  • LocationLumberton, NJ
  • Home Range:Central Jersey Rifle & Pistol Club, Delran JMC

Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:14 PM

What makes a muzzle device an evil "flash suppressor"?
Can I simply trust the manufacturer's description or are there specific criteria?

i.e., I am looking to get rid of the AK74-style break that comes on the Saiga SG21 series. I was thinking about something with a little more cool factor like this. But am worried that it might be a little to cool for NJ.
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*Restrictions apply. **Void where prohibited.

#2 PK90

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:21 PM

How is it advertised? That is all NJSP are concerned about.

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#3 TheDon

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  • LocationLumberton, NJ
  • Home Range:Central Jersey Rifle & Pistol Club, Delran JMC

Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:39 PM

Advertize as a break.

INTRAFUSE AK RAZR Muzzle Brake


So, as long as I file away the advertisement and packaging just in case, I should be OK. Right?


Thanks
NJ State Motto: Liberty* and Prosperity**.
*Restrictions apply. **Void where prohibited.

#4 vladtepes

vladtepes
  • LocationPennsylvania

Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:40 PM

looks like a hider to me..

Click Each of the following to learn about rules and regulations regarding NJ. Each has detailed information allowing you to understand what you can and can not have.
Semiautomatic Rifle Semiautomatic Handgun Semiautomatic Shotgun

 

BackwoodsCustomCoatings im not breaking your balls...youre seriously crazy...

 

#5 PK90

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:42 PM

Advertize as a break.


So, as long as I file away the advertisement and packaging just in case, I should be OK. Right?


Thanks


I would also shoot it at night to show that there is a flash. Record it and save it.

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#6 dtown223

dtown223
  • LocationDumont, Bergen County
  • Home Range:Cherry Ridge

Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:05 PM

I had a rifle shipped to me with this brake installed. inspected it pretty closely, because I was unsure of its legality. Mostly you'll see it advertised as the razor "brake"
Although, you'll also see this advertised as a brake with an integral flash hider...
I didn't want to be the test case on this one
Conventional wisdom regarding brake/comp vs hider seems to be that a hider will have an open end, and a brake/comp will be approximately the same width as the bore.
This device certainly did not seem be significantly larger from the bore to the end if the device, which would indicate its a brake/comp, but I couldn't be sure, plus the aesthetic wasn't for me, in the end I swapped it out.
Dave T
07628

#7 TheDon

TheDon
  • LocationLumberton, NJ
  • Home Range:Central Jersey Rifle & Pistol Club, Delran JMC

Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:32 PM

This was just an example. I need to see it on an AK before I buy. I am also a little reluctant to deal with all the "is THAT legal?!?!" banter at the range.
I am still looking. Nonetheless, I appreciate the answers. I is good to know that it is manufacturer's marketing that counts.
Thanks
NJ State Motto: Liberty* and Prosperity**.
*Restrictions apply. **Void where prohibited.

#8 TK421

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  • LocationOcean County

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:26 PM

This was just an example. I need to see it on an AK before I buy. I am also a little reluctant to deal with all the "is THAT legal?!?!" banter at the range.
I am still looking. Nonetheless, I appreciate the answers. I is good to know that it is manufacturer's marketing that counts.
Thanks


If that were indeed the standard I would be sooooo tempted!

http://dpmsinc.3dcar...ator_p_600.html
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

#9 PK90

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:02 AM

Posted Image

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#10 raz-0

raz-0
  • LocationSayreville, NJ
  • Home Range:OBRPC

Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:34 AM

Well I'll give you my take. It's not a flash hider, nor is it a brake. It's a stupidly designed pokey bit for the front of your gun.

It appears to have a high pressure chamber with four vents, and then the four tines. Regarding flash, what should happen is you get a jet of flame out of each nozzle which line up with the tines, and then flash from the gap in each tine. this basically means that you get an eyeful of flash with each bang, so it doesn't help preserve the night vision of the shooter. It also doesn't do much to prevent detection because the vents at 2, 4, 8, and 10 o'clock are going to create nice rooster tails of flash in profile and head on. That's why it's not a flash supressor IMO. Unless the ammo is low enoguh pressure that the high pressure chamber doesn't work. In which case it may actually suppress flash a bit.

Then you have the muzzle brake part. It has the four vents. They do not appear to be vectored rearward, so they won't check rearward recoil. The vents are also symmetric top to bottom and left to right, which basically means that in the face of even and symmetrical forces (i.e. a rifle magically floating in mid air), they might anchor the muzzle a bit, they won't do so once you put an actual skeleton behind it. So at best, you get a little bit of a recoil check by the gasses hitting the baffle at the front of the high pressure chamber, but likely not as much as if the baffle had large open ports to vent it. Add to that that 7.62 isn't that high pressure and it may not even do that.

#11 MandM

MandM
  • LocationHawthorne NJ

Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:00 AM

+1 what raz said.

My first thought would be to tell you to find something else. While this may be NJ legal, it provides no benefit, except making your Saiga a bit more stabby.

There are plenty of decent brakes/comps out there that will provide functionality AND will be much less murky, legally.
--

Greg

#12 BCeagle

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

I would assume flash reduction = flash hider?

https://danieldefens...zle-device.html

#13 PK90

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:19 PM

yes

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#14 KpdPipes

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  • LocationKeansburg, Monmouth County
  • Home Range:CJRPC

Posted 11 November 2012 - 05:03 PM

I would assume flash reduction = flash hider?

https://danieldefens...zle-device.html


Thing is, a TRUE "Flash Hider" served one purpose..to allow the shooter to use his firearm at night without Blinding HIMSELF..... the Grabbers took the adjective "Hider" to mean "Hiding the flash from others to shoot from stealth" Not the first time people whore legislation without knowing WTF they were speaking of, and it wont be the last.

#15 raz-0

raz-0
  • LocationSayreville, NJ
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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:08 PM

I would assume flash reduction = flash hider?

https://danieldefens...zle-device.html


For that one... yes. IN general, the BATFE permitted some flash reduction and had some mystery threshold for it being a flash suppressor. During the federal AWB, the smith comp reduced flash significantly over an open muzzle, the PWS 556FC or whaterver a bit less so. However, they both passed the BATFE test as both were sold on post ban configurations.

#16 TK421

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  • LocationOcean County

Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:46 AM

Thing is, a TRUE "Flash Hider" served one purpose..to allow the shooter to use his firearm at night without Blinding HIMSELF..... the Grabbers took the adjective "Hider" to mean "Hiding the flash from others to shoot from stealth" Not the first time people whore legislation without knowing WTF they were speaking of, and it wont be the last.


Intellectual honesty is somewhat of an elusive quality when it gets in the way of a liberal agenda. Don't forget the whole barrel shroud shoulder thing that goes up comment, they are morons. You can't have a barrel shroud on a pistol because it protects the shooter from getting burned? Really? You cannot have a pistol grip on a rifle because somehow having a more ergonomic design makes the weapon less accurate to fire? Really? They are all dumb-asses, pure and simple.
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."




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