A3666: Prohibits mail order/internet/phone sales of ammunition

[Jon 264]

A3666

Sponsored by Assemblyman Joseph Cryan, District 20 (Union), Assemblyman

Jason O’Donnell, District 31 (Hudson), Assemblywoman Mila M. Jasey, District 27

(Essex and Morris), Assemblywoman Annette Quijano, District 20 (Union)

 

Prohibits mail order, Internet, telephone, and any other anonymous method of

ammunition sale or transfer in New Jersey.

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2012/Bills/A4000/3666_I1.HTM

[matty 810]

Train's left that station already, you clearing out an old queue?

[wooly bugger 1]

Train's left that station already, you clearing out an old queue?

Not sure what you mean. These bills are being considered by Sweeney, who has the power to block them. He said he'd make a decision in April, so now's the time to start hitting him. Here's my letter. Feel free to borrow/plagiarize and send to Sweeney plus your own senator.

 

 

 

Dear Senator Sweeney,

 

I would like to express my objection to the committee substitute for Assembly bills A3645, A3646, A3666, and A3750, which would require all ammunition sales to occur face to face. This consolidated bill is overly restrictive to legitimate buyers, while providing no impediment to illegal purchases.

 

In fact, online purchases create GREATER accountability than face to face. In addition to an ID, the user must provide a credit card and physical address. If this is not enough, an FPIC could also be required, as many vendors voluntarily do. As a model piece of legislation, here is what Illinois, a very restrictive state, mandates.

 

(430 ILCS 65/3) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑3)

Sec. 3.

 

(b‑5) Any resident may purchase ammunition from a person outside of Illinois. Any resident purchasing ammunition outside the State of Illinois must provide the seller with a copy of his or her valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and either his or her Illinois driver's license or Illinois State Identification Card prior to the shipment of the ammunition. The ammunition may be shipped only to an address on either of those 2 documents.

 

Eliminating online sales imposes a significant burden. There are thousands of types of ammunition, most of which are not available in physical stores. With a dwindling number of gun stores, driving to one can entail a very long trip, and this can’t even be combined with a trip to the range, because any deviation between home and the range, even to buy ammunition, makes the driver a felon.

 

Let’s be realistic, anyone with the wherewithal to obtain an illegal gun probably obtained a side order of ammunition to go with that gun. And rather than navigate through the four levels of security outlined above, it would be much easier to just make a quick drive over to PA or DE, walk into a gun store, and pay cash, without showing ID.

 

I know that in this environment, it is politically expedient to pass laws imposing arbitrary hardship on gun owners. I would ask that ideally, this bill would be seen for what it is and stopped. If such symbolic legislation must go through, please at least try to minimize the unnecessary burden on lawful citizens.

 

Thank you.

[RubberBullets 65]

Time to start running ammo from free states like running smokes like the good ol days from NC

 

[blksheep 466]

Time to start running ammo from free states like running smokes like the good ol days from NC

 

Smokey and the Bandit...redo..lol

[Howard 538]

Been stocking up, just in case. It has an almost infinite shelf life, and the money earns nothing in the bank anyway

[ruger9 0]

that's "bulletleggin"......

 

East Bound and Down, loaded up and truckin'....

[EchoMirage 137]

if you believe the old crone that is weinberg, she said during the meeting on sunday that she realizes this bill 'will do nothing for crime, and will have to be looked at again'. it probably doesnt have legs, but you never know with communists

[wooly bugger 1]

if you believe the old crone that is weinberg, she said during the meeting on sunday that she realizes this bill 'will do nothing for crime, and will have to be looked at again'. it probably doesnt have legs, but you never know with communists

Well if she even half believes that, it's probably a good idea to send her a similar letter explaining just how stupid this bill is.

 

I also question the constitutionality of its effect on interstate commerce.

[ruger9 0]

it probably doesnt have legs, but you never know with communists

 

Quote of the day!!!

[Jim Hartman 31]

Not sure what you mean. These bills are being considered by Sweeney, who has the power to block them. He said he'd make a decision in April, so now's the time to start hitting him. Here's my letter. Feel free to borrow/plagiarize and send to Sweeney plus your own senator.

 

 

 

Dear Senator Sweeney,

 

I would like to express my objection to the committee substitute for Assembly bills A3645, A3646, A3666, and A3750, which would require all ammunition sales to occur face to face. This consolidated bill is overly restrictive to legitimate buyers, while providing no impediment to illegal purchases.

 

In fact, online purchases create GREATER accountability than face to face. In addition to an ID, the user must provide a credit card and physical address. If this is not enough, an FPIC could also be required, as many vendors voluntarily do. As a model piece of legislation, here is what Illinois, a very restrictive state, mandates.

 

(430 ILCS 65/3) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑3)

Sec. 3.

 

(b‑5) Any resident may purchase ammunition from a person outside of Illinois. Any resident purchasing ammunition outside the State of Illinois must provide the seller with a copy of his or her valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and either his or her Illinois driver's license or Illinois State Identification Card prior to the shipment of the ammunition. The ammunition may be shipped only to an address on either of those 2 documents.

 

Eliminating online sales imposes a significant burden. There are thousands of types of ammunition, most of which are not available in physical stores. With a dwindling number of gun stores, driving to one can entail a very long trip, and this can’t even be combined with a trip to the range, because any deviation between home and the range, even to buy ammunition, makes the driver a felon.

 

Let’s be realistic, anyone with the wherewithal to obtain an illegal gun probably obtained a side order of ammunition to go with that gun. And rather than navigate through the four levels of security outlined above, it would be much easier to just make a quick drive over to PA or DE, walk into a gun store, and pay cash, without showing ID.

 

I know that in this environment, it is politically expedient to pass laws imposing arbitrary hardship on gun owners. I would ask that ideally, this bill would be seen for what it is and stopped. If such symbolic legislation must go through, please at least try to minimize the unnecessary burden on lawful citizens.

 

Thank you.

Thanks for doing that I sent a letter to the Gov. last week I will also send the Senate President one also.

[MPA 0]

so we can wait a month for local shop to get ammo then pay over retail to buy it, because nj wont have any left.

[gunguy1960 2]

So would this prevent sales on web sites like this, or armslist, or even face to face arranged over the phone since there is no paper trail?

[MrSurfboard 1]

So would this prevent sales on web sites like this, or armslist, or even face to face arranged over the phone since there is no paper trail?

 

Yes, all that would be allowed would be person to person sales. Basically you would have to walk into a brick and mortar store, be identified and complete the sale. Since finding ammo in NJ is tough anyway, I see myself crossing the border to PA of DE for ammo purchases if this goes through.

[MPA 0]

I was talking about this today with a guy that moves over 100,000 rounds per month as a wholesaler. His opinion is that this will double the cost of ammo in NJ

[Howard 538]

I was talking about this today with a guy that moves over 100,000 rounds per month as a wholesaler. His opinion is that this will double the cost of ammo in NJ

 

Sounds about right for NJ. Maybe you could get him to talk to arses in Trenton. How does double the price help reduce crime? I just see it as causing more crime as the bad guys will have to rob more people to get the money to pay for their ammo.

[Candide 0]

 

 

Sounds about right for NJ. Maybe you could get him to talk to arses in Trenton. How does double the price help reduce crime? I just see it as causing more crime as the bad guys will have to rob more people to get the money to pay for their ammo.

 

Yeah right, that guys profits will soar. I bet he hopes it passes.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Coworkers who live in pennsy will be getting lots of deliveries for me

[wooly bugger 1]

I was talking about this today with a guy that moves over 100,000 rounds per month as a wholesaler. His opinion is that this will double the cost of ammo in NJ

So he's basically telling you he's planning to be a gouger? And he thinks all the LGS's will go along with it?

[BigHayden 77]

In honor of this bill I ordered 300 rounds of .38 special and .357 magnum online today.

[gski1 3]

UPS Stores right across the river charge a small monthly fee to accept packages and there is nothing illegal about it. The fee wll pay for itself on the first bulk order. Just saying.

[Howard 538]

UPS Stores right across the river charge a small monthly fee to accept packages and there is nothing illegal about it. The fee wll pay for itself on the first bulk order. Just saying.

 

Is that a PO address, or would it be your name and that address and a box that you list as an apartment number? I ask because most places will not ship to a PO type box.

[reduck 0]

In honor of this bill I ordered 300 rounds of .38 special and .357 magnum online today.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Ups dropped off 600 rds of 9mm today and 600 of 45 last week.

This bill would truly suck. Though maybe my ups guy would like it......nah...he's a shooter too!

[Dan 177]

Ammo will be sold like guns. People will order $500-$1000 at a time in bulk, shipped to FFL, picked up and pay the FFL/dealer a fee for the transaction.

 

That is unless local shops get on the ball and stock up in bulk on good ammo at good prices.

 

I wish Costco got into the ammo biz....

[Candide 0]

Ammo will be sold like guns. People will order $500-$1000 at a time in bulk, shipped to FFL, picked up and pay the FFL/dealer a fee for the transaction.

 

That is unless local shops get on the ball and stock up in bulk on good ammo at good prices.

 

I wish Costco got into the ammo biz....

 

Costco is anti gun.

[wooly bugger 1]

Costco is anti gun.

Maybe, but they're not anti gun safe. That's where I got mine. Maybe they're selling them to protect the children. See my avatar.

[wooly bugger 1]

In preparation for doomsday, I just picked up 600 rounds of .30-06 from the CMP. After I decide whether to stick with the Greek or if I'm willing to pay more for Hornady, I'll be putting in another order for double that.

[gski1 3]

 

 

Is that a PO address, or would it be your name and that address and a box that you list as an apartment number? I ask because most places will not ship to a PO type box.

 

It is the address of the UPS store.

[Howard 538]

Well as I told the UPS guy (who is a gun guy) yesterday, I am stocking up now while I can still get it just in case.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Coworkers who live in pennsy will be getting lots of deliveries for me

You are exempt from this BS my friend. In fact, you are exempt from just about all of the BS laws they are trying to pass. Makes me want to be LEO, or even better, DHS! Those guys and gals will be the US-version of the SS from Nazi Germany within the next 50 years. I'd like to be a traitor within their ranks!