Help me Save my Masterpiece Arms Defender! *Urgent*

[NorthJersey 1]

A local FFL started to get nervous about my Masterpiece Arms Defender pistol in 5.57. The pistol is over 50 oz., so I need to have the muzzle brake pinned.

 

Det. Hanneman (sp?) said he thinks it might be too close to a MAC-10. I'll be talking with Ron Keller tomorrow morning, so I want to have all my facts straight.

 

Here are the difference as I perceive them:

 

5.7 vs. 9mm/45 ACP

The Defender does not have the removable, collapsible wire stock of the MAC-10

The Defender is three pounds lighter than the 101 oz. MAC-10

The Defender takes Five Seven magazines instead of M3 "Grease Gun" mags

The Defender is a closed bolt pistol. The original MAC-10s were produced in an open bolt configuration.

1/2-28 thread pattern for the defender vs. 3/4-10 or 7/8-9 for the MAC-10

5 inch barrel for the Defender vs. 4.5 inch barrel for the MAC-10

The Defender is a side cocker. The MAC-10 is a top cocker.

The grip on the defender is an angled single piece that is uniform in width, and the grip on the MAC-10 has a fat contoured backstrap that attaches to the magwell

 

Any other differences I should point out?

[NorthJersey 1]

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

5 inch barrel for the MAC 4.5 inch barrel for the MAC 10

(emphasis added)

 

Well, one thing to point out - it doesn't help if you mix up the terms in your own description! Make sure you use MPA7SST/Defender or whatever your specific model is in every instance where you describe your handgun.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

What's the twist rate on the barrel? I'm betting it's different for 5.7 vs. 9mm/45 too.

[NorthJersey 1]

(emphasis added)

 

Well, one thing to point out - it doesn't help if you mix up the terms in your own description! Make sure you use MPA7SST/Defender or whatever your specific model is in every instance where you describe your handgun.

 

Got the typos. Thanks!

 

What's the twist rate on the barrel? I'm betting it's different for 5.7 vs. 9mm/45 too.

 

Good call.

[NorthJersey 1]

[NorthJersey],

 

5.7x28 twist 1:9

 

The bolt utilizes a spring loaded, captive firing pin. The overall design is closed bolt, hammer fired, straight blowback, semi automatic.

 

While the appearance is that of the older M/11, the operating system and fire control group are entirely different in definition. Our fire control group parts are not interchangeable with M/11’s and vice versa. Significant and deliberate modification to either the parts or our receiver would be necessary for one to apply M/11 fire control parts to our firearms.

 

 

Regards,

 

Brandon Newman

Masterpiece Arms

Manufacturing Facility

www.masterpiecearms.com

[JOdoubleE953 0]

If its a no go, I would make a big deal about it and have him send it free of charge to another FFL. Use your leverage if need be. Do you throw this guy a lot of business?

[BlackOps Badger 52]

Is it a named weapon? No, it is not. It's an MPA57 S ST. It does say Mac10 type carbines however, it also says that under AK, but how many of us have Saigas or VEPRS or WASRS, etc.

 

How about "Evil Features"?

 

ii. A semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at

least two of the following:

(1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

Nope

(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;

Yes, but easily rectified by pinning and welding a break.

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned;

Nope

(4) Manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;

Yes

 

(5) A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm;

 

I would say no. While it may have a similar style to a MAC, it's definitely not. Works totally different. I believe there are a few members on the boards that have MPA weapons.

[PK90 3,570]

TOO HEAVY.

 

Only the Mini-9 is legal.

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

TOO HEAVY.

 

Only the Mini-9 is legal.

 

The man has spoken!

 

I haven't dealt with pk90 but he is the go to guy here on the forum usually!

[Old School 611]

TOO HEAVY.

 

Only the Mini-9 is legal.

 

Correct 53oz. 3oz too heavy

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

TOO HEAVY.

 

Only the Mini-9 is legal.

 

But he can have the muzzle brake pinned/welded and that then eliminates the threaded barrel "evil feature", bringing him down to 1 "evil feature" and making it legal, correct?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

it's not worth the headache, buy a beretta or glock instead

[pbkid6974 1]

cant you just chop the barrel off at the threads and have it recrowned? i would suspect that by getting rid of the break and threads you might squeek by the 50 oz. limit.

[johnp 45]

I don't understand. If the problem with this thing is it is over 50oz. How is the desert eagle legal?

[NorthJersey 1]

I already purchased the pistol. 50 oz. is not a problem unless you have another evil feature, right? In my case, the threads will be removed by permanently affixing a muzzle brake.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I would postulate that it also violates #3 - barrel shroud. Since it has a reciprocating internal bolt, and not a slide, any part of the body of the pistol, ahead of the chamber, ergo, surrounding the barrel, becomes a shroud which can be held with the weak hand while firing. JMHO.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

[acuevo 0]

I would postulate that it also violates #3 - barrel shroud. Since it has a reciprocating internal bolt, and not a slide, any part of the body of the pistol, ahead of the chamber, ergo, surrounding the barrel, becomes a shroud which can be held with the weak hand while firing. JMHO.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

 

yeah i would be wary of that, as with all the gun laws here its worded to screw you.

[halbautomatisch 60]

cant you just chop the barrel off at the threads and have it recrowned? i would suspect that by getting rid of the break and threads you might squeek by the 50 oz. limit.

The law AG's rule says a manufactured weight of 50 oz. or more. Lightening it up after it is purchased wouldn't matter.

[NorthJersey 1]

I would postulate that it also violates #3 - barrel shroud. Since it has a reciprocating internal bolt, and not a slide, any part of the body of the pistol, ahead of the chamber, ergo, surrounding the barrel, becomes a shroud which can be held with the weak hand while firing. JMHO.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

 

Incorrect. A barrel shroud is the "shoulder thing that goes up."

[NorthJersey 1]

I would postulate that it also violates #3 - barrel shroud. Since it has a reciprocating internal bolt, and not a slide, any part of the body of the pistol, ahead of the chamber, ergo, surrounding the barrel, becomes a shroud which can be held with the weak hand while firing. JMHO.

 

Adios,

 

PIzza Bob

 

On a serious note, you could start calling Picatinny rails on handguns barrel shrouds, but I think we're really stretching the definition. No gunsmith or firearms manufacturer would identify the Defender as having a barrel shroud.

 

The law AG's rule says a manufactured weight of 50 oz. or more. Lightening it up after it is purchased wouldn't matter.

 

That is, unless you send the pistol to an 07 FFL to manufacture a lighter version of the pistol.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

No gunsmith or firearms manufacturer would identify the Defender as having a barrel shroud.

 

Doesn't matter what a gunsmith or manufacturer would call it - this is one time where the term is clearly defined as part of the law. This meets the law's definition of a shroud.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

IMHO, in NJ this is a Gun looking for a PROBLEM. Better-off not even wasting a permit. Just leave it at your FFL's place of business and have him ship it to an out-of-state FFL. If it hasn't shipped to Jersey yet, then sell it to someone outside of the influence of the People's Republic!

[NorthJersey 1]

Doesn't matter what a gunsmith or manufacturer would call it - this is one time where the term is clearly defined as part of the law. This meets the law's definition of a shroud.

 

Thankfully, the state police don't subscribe to that interpretation of the law. I met with a state police detective this morning and he told me that the Masterpiece Arms pistols have been evaluated and were found to not substantially resemble an assault weapon.

 

 

 

A

shroud

that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and

that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being

burned;

 

I think the key is that the law doesn't not attempt to define a shroud. It attempts to define the type of shroud that contitutes an "assault weapon" feature. Based on the language of the law, a shroud that "is not attached to the barrel, and that does not encircle the barrel, or that does not permit the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned would not be an AW feature.

 

It doesn't say a "pistol frame that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel . . . " or "an integral part of the pistol that encircles the barrel."

 

In this instance the pistol frame is clearly not intended to act as a barrel shroud. You barely have anything to grip on the frame. Gripping a Tac rail on a Springfield XD, particlarly when a flashlight or a bipod is attached, would be a much easier method to hold a pistol with the non-trigger hand.

 

 

IMHO, in NJ this is a Gun looking for a PROBLEM. Better-off not even wasting a permit. Just leave it at your FFL's place of business and have him ship it to an out-of-state FFL. If it hasn't shipped to Jersey yet, then sell it to someone outside of the influence of the People's Republic!

 

In light of my discussion with the detective, I'm going to see if the FFL will just hold the pistol until I get my license. If the state police have already evaluated the cousins to my 5.7 Defender, I'm satisfied, especially since the 5.7 resembles a MAC even less than the common 9mm pistols from Masterpiece Arms.

 

A Colt 6940 has much more against it than my pistol:

• Threaded barrel with a flash hider (can solved by permanently affixing a legal Branson brake almost identical to the flash hider)
  
• Bayonet lug (usually ground off)
  
• Six-position stock (usually pinned)
  
• Comes standard with two 20-round Colt magazines (permanently reduced to 15 rounds or replaced with aftermarket magazines in 10 or 15 round capacity)
  
• The ability to accept a detachable magazine (usually retained as one of two permissible evil features)
  
• A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuosly beneath the action (usually retained as one of two evil features)
  

Finally, this seems the most damning strike against the 6940: "The LE6940 has extensive parts commonality with the M4 . . ." and "the Colt LE6940 Advanced Law Enforcement Carbine is best thought of as a semi-automatic-only version of the M4"

http://www.americanr...x?id=2324&cid=4

 

 

Here's how the Defender stacks up:

• Threaded barrel ( solved with permanently attached muzzle device)
  
• 50 oz. weight (retained as the one permissible evil feature)
  
• Accepts Five Seven pistol magazines (Masterpiece Arms does not manufacture magazines for this pistol, usually including a Promag aftermarket Five Seven magazine in 20 round capacity)
  

As to parts interchangeability with the M-11, I received the following reply from the manufacturer:

 

 

Our fire control group parts are not interchangeable with M/11’s and vice versa. Significant and deliberate modification to either the parts or our receiver would be necessary for one to apply M/11 fire control parts to our firearms.

 

In my case a modification to the 5.7 version to accept M-11 parts would be practically impossible.

 

The Colt requires four modifications for New Jersey compliance and the Defender requires one. Further, the Colt bears close resemblance to both named weapons and automatic weapons and has parts commonality with these weapons.

 

 

I think the reason people feel uncomfortable with this pistol is that it is uncommon and it looks like a Hollywood bad guy gun. I didn't make this purchase to scare people or to look tacticool. I wanted a fun pistol to shoot in 5.7 since I also have an AR-57 upper. I can't justify spending $2000 on a Five Seven, so I bought the very inexpensive Masterpiece Arms pistol.

 

I appreciate all the input.

[RubberBullets 65]

@remixer... you ready to accept this bad boy? LoL this looks much prettier than the mini 9.

 

Perhaps referring to the gun as pretty instead of evil looking will sway tue ffl/SP's opinion