Hollow point "transport" Question????

[Howard 538]

So, we all know it is legal to have hollow point ammo in your home and take it to and from the range to use in NJ.  But what about getting it to your house in the first place.  Let's say you have some that is coming via UPS, but you will not be home when it arrives. I rather not have it just sit outside where it could be taken.  So, is it legal to have UPS hold it and then go pick it up from them - or would that not qualify as bringing it home from the store where you purchased it? 

[tj462nj 32]

hollow points are only illegal if used in commission with a crime

[BlueLineFish 615]

hollow points are only illegal if used in commission with a crime

Absolutely not true....it's an add on charge if used in commission of a crime. If you are not in possession based on exemptions you could be charged. To and from range, place of purchase etc. they should be treated as handguns in this state

[Urban Grunt 44]

Ups is fine to deliver to your home, ups will leave your ammo in a shed or lock box if you instruct them to do so.

Transport to and from a range like any other ammo you would normally use.

[NJSlick 0]

I dont think if you got stopped and they found a sealed shipping box with hollow points you would get charged. You don't have your gun with you, its in a sealed box, ect. I think you're fine. 

[Howard 538]

OK, but what about the answer to my question.  Is it legal in NJ for me to pickup hollow point rounds at a UPS facility and drive them myself to my home.

[leahcim 680]

Even if you do get stopped, why would they ever find any shipping box?  If you put it in your trunk or otherwise out of sight, they would need PC to conduct a search.

I usually just have them shipped and hope I am home when they arrive--UPS usually drops off fairly late at my home, typically after 1700, often after 18 or 19.

 

However, I am a little wary about it.  I had a chance to buy HP when I was in AZ but did not wish to transport through NJ as I was not sure if the NJ laws of directly from place of purchase would apply to interstate + air travel, or if I would be under FOPA.  Since I did not know enough to know what jurisdiction would apply, and I did not need the HP that bad, I opted for regular target ammo instead.

[Urban Grunt 44]

If really want to over think this, print out your online ammo order plus you will have your ups receipt ,then your more than good to go.

[ryan_j 0]

hollow points are only illegal if used in commission with a crime

 

Brian Aitken would love to know that. 

[Howard 538]

So the consensus seems to be I am probably OK, and hey if wrong, I'm sure you guys will come visit me where the state will having you pay for my free meals, free board, and free health insurance - not to mention protection with armed guards

[BlueLineFish 615]

This is kind of a grey area. There are exempted locations and travel exceptions. Theoretically you are in transit from purchase. I wouldn't be concerned. Don't open it and go straight home.

[illy 1]

If you are not in possession based on exemptions you could be charged. To and from range, place of purchase etc. they should be treated as handguns in this state

^This.

 

-HP ammo transport/possession is essentially the same as a firearm. Illegal, except for certain exemptions.

 

-Traveling from place of purchase to home/range is one of the exemptions and is therefore 100% legal (so long as the person is not otherwise prohibited).

 

-UPS pick up location = point of purchase/delivery just like a local FFL is effectively your point of purchase for a handgun, even if you bought it online/out of state and only had it shipped to the FFL for transfer.

 

-Simple possession of HP ammo, outside of one of the exemptions, is a crime onto itself, though almost always charged along with some other offense. That other offense need not be gun related and often isn’t (i.e. drug arrest-> vehicle search-> HPs found-> additional charge).

 

-I’ve seen one case where the ONLY charge was HP ammo, though the initial contact with PD was a domestic violence call (no charges filed on the DV).

 

-IANAL

[Smokin .50 1,907]

IANAL, but that being said, here goes:

 

There's such as thing as the "letter of the law" and the "intent of the law".

 

Here's an example:  I take my ammo in and out of the car every weekend.  I'm placing a 525 round box of Federal 32 gr. .22LR plinking ammo (hollow point rounds) into the trunk of my car and the box splits and loose rounds spill into the trunk.  I gather-up all that I can see/find and I think I'm GTG.  I climb into my cavernous trunk and grab every last one of those evil HP rounds.  Only problem is a couple got wedged underneath the trunk liner alongside the spare.  So I put 100K miles on the car in the meantime.  Does that mean I'm a felon?  Do you all think that my trunk is the ONLY one in NJ with this condition??

 

Let's all stop and get REAL!  Unless you have a Forensic Lab person take the car apart, you'll never find those 2 HP rounds, so try to not loose too much sleep over it!  Picking-up a sealed case of ammo at UPS should never have been questioned.  Otherwise, the jails would be full of shooters who sign for pkgs after work.....

 

Hold-up a 7-11 with a gun loaded with evil HP and you'll get charged for the additional Rap.  So remember to just use BALL ammo and claim you're a subject class of discrimination, and you might beat it altogether, since it's not yer fault that you were forced to hold-up Apoo to get some cig money..........hey--ya never know, lol!

 

Dave

Rusty ammo owner

[Duppie 73]

+1

[kman 56]

I remember Nappen saying someone got convicted of a felony for ONE loose hollow point .22 bullet police found in the car.

 

Now that was pre-Heller and McDonald, but still I dont take any chances. .22 hp ammo is only in my car when I am going to the range.

 

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[raz-0 1,259]

I remember Nappen saying someone got convicted of a felony for ONE loose hollow point .22 bullet police found in the car.

 

Now that was pre-Heller and McDonald, but still I dont take any chances. .22 hp ammo is only in my car when I am going to the range.

 

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

I don't know if it was one loose .22, but someone got whacked with a felony charge for one loose hp round. Of course it was on top of the assault, DUI, and at least one other felony charge.

 

Guy was at a club, got drunk, beat the snot out of someone in the parking lot, and then tried to drive off under the influence.

 

 

[illy 1]

So remember to just use BALL ammo and claim you're a subject class of discrimination, and you might beat it altogether, since it's not yer fault that you were forced to hold-up Apoo to get some cig money..........hey--ya never know, lol!

 

Dave

Rusty ammo owner

 

[Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with this subject at all, but since you thought it'd be cute to bring it up...]

 

 

You're can't really serious with bullsh1t.

 

You really think that minorities are treated better by the police and courts? That they get cut some slack for being black, brown etc?

 

You have no f...ing clue. It's about as opposite from that as you can get.

What a ridiculously misinformed comment. 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

[Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with this subject at all, but since you thought it'd be cute to bring it up...]

 

 

You're can't really serious with bullsh1t.

 

You really think that minorities are treated better by the police and courts? That they get cut some slack for being black, brown etc?

 

You have no f...ing clue. It's about as opposite from that as you can get.

What a ridiculously misinformed comment. 

 

 

Dude, of course I'm not serious!  It was "tongue and cheek" so chillax already!  I have friends in all sorts of "wrapper colors"!  And from virtually every ethnic background you can think of!  I was bustin' on "The System"!  The same DAMN System of revolvin'-door justice that let a dude with 38 arrests out on the street so he could get arrested YET AGAIN for SHOOTING A BABY IN THE FACE!  And oh, by-the-way, he's from a MINORITY!  What I think doesn't matter, the fact that it took 39 arrests to finally put this POS away DOES!   

 

As to "Subject Class" of discrimination, we're finding more and more of them every damn day cause they just keep "poppin'-up" outta nowhere.  This week's Subject Class is Muslim Terrorists, like the guy who hacked-up a British (UN)Armed Forces member while everybody just watched and waited for armed police to show up........seems that the Muslim Extremists don't like bein' called-out after someone posts cell phone videos on You Tube and it goes viral......and it's on my Face Book feed that Muslim Terrorists complained to the Obama Administration about being called "Extremists".  You can't make this sh!t up!

 

So yes I do have a clue!  More clues than you'll ever comprehend.  I assure you, I am ever vigilant to maintain superior situational awareness, especially while performing Keyboard Commando eradication.

 

So, I hope you now understand me a little better.  Sometimes I illustrate absurdity by being absurd, because it makes people THINK!  May you have the rest of a nice weekend!

 

Dave

[carl_g 568]

I heard evan nappen on gfh radio say that he would not reccomend the use of hp ammo for hd because the ways the law can be interpreted are so vague. Everytime you read of someone getting guns confiscated, if they find hollowpoints, they are charged with illegal ammunition. Why is this?

[nitrospaz9 10]

Wait so its illegal to have these rounds in my home? I'm confused... My .50 rounds are only HP

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Wait so its illegal to have these rounds in my home? I'm confused... My .50 rounds are only HP

 

 

It's not...

[Duppie 73]

Wait so its illegal to have these rounds in my home? I'm confused... My .50 rounds are only HP

Not in the least.....I have all my guns loaded with JHP rounds at home so if the occasion arises, I'm minimizing over penetration in regards to my neighbors. it's extremely simple....consider your HP's as just another hand gun and treat it as such.

[illy 1]

So, I hope you now understand me a little better.  Sometimes I illustrate absurdity by being absurd, because it makes people THINK!  May you have the rest of a nice weekend!

 

Dave

 

I may have over reacted... 

[nitrospaz9 10]

ok got it. Thanks everyone

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I may have over reacted... 

 

No problem...

[ryan_j 0]

Didn't someone get busted for an inert hollow point cartridge on a keychain? 

[Cixelsid 1]

IANAL but this state is a very hostile environment for gun owners. Yes you may be within the letter of the law transporting hollow points from the UPS hub. But do you have the time and money to fight a wrongful trumped up charge? It happens all the time here. Cops will arrest first and tell you to explain it to the judge while you're sitting in lockup.

[Howard 538]

Well I just let UPS deliver them as scheduled and they sat at my door step until my daughter got there around 7pm.  They were still there and there was no problem.

[Cixelsid 1]

Well I just let UPS deliver them as scheduled and they sat at my door step until my daughter got there around 7pm.  They were still there and there was no problem.

 

 

Smart man.

[Bob2222 317]

Didn't someone get busted for an inert hollow point cartridge on a keychain? 

 

I think Nappen makes reference to the case in his books.

 

Also, from another forum, and according to a Grand Juror in the case....

 

 

 

Actually, I was on a grand jury in Trenton in which a guy was arrested based on having a hollow point bullet on a key chain. Now, this was back in the '80s and the law might have been changed (do you really believe that?).

 

Did your grand jury find cause for an indictment in this case?

 

Yes.

 

The way it worked at the time was as follows:

 

The jury foreman sat in the place you would normally see the judge. The jury sat where the spectators would normally sit. The prosecutor tells you a little about the case and then he brings the arresting officer and has him tell what happened. The prosecutor then asks him some questions. After that the officer leaves the room and the jury members who have questions raise their hands and are called on and ask their questions. The officer then comes back and the prosecutor ask him the questions raised by the jury members.

 

The jury is then asked to determine if, based on the evidence presented and in the absence of any contrary evidence, was a crime committed and did the accused commit the crime.

 

What happened in this case was the officer stopped the car for a traffic violation. He noticed the bullet on the keyring and arrested the driver. Since it was an arrest for a crime, the officer didn't need permission to search the car, in which he found drugs and a gun loaded with hollow points. He was charged with one count of illegal possession of the drugs, illegal possession of a firearm, posession of a firearm for unlawful purposes and one count of illegal possession of a hollowpoint bullet for each bullet.

 

My question was about the bullet on the keyring to determine if it could realistically be possible to load it into a round of ammuniton and fired. There was a big groan from the rest of the jurors. I think they were assuming that I wanted to reduce the hollowpoint counts from 18 (or whatever it was) to 17. After that, they wouldn't call on me during that case. When the discussion was done, they called for a motion and I put my hand up to "no bill" the case because I believed that the initial search was illegal because I didn't regard it as a bullet, but rather a charm as in charm bracelet and therefore the rest of the evidence should be inadmissable. (Actually, I guess this wasn't in line with what we were supposed to be doing. The prosecutor told me later that he expected the guy's lawyer would raise the same issue)

 

I don't know anything more about what happened in this case. Perhaps, if the rest of the stuff wasn't there the cop might have let him go, but I really don't believe that. The prosecutor pointed out that cops are rated on, among other things, how many arrests they make, whether or not they get a conviction.

 

 

They still sell hollow-point bullet keychains. (In fact, even Amazon has listed such a keychain -- apparently until their lawyers went nuts over it.) I would not buy one, and would not recommend carrying one in New Jersey, since it would seem to provide probable cause for a search!