The end of airport firearms transport?

[kman 56]

Remember that independent of FOPA you are allowed under NJ law to transport to and from a range for target practice.

 

Back in 2007 or 2008 I checked a handgun at the ticket counter at newark airport and was later called on the public address system in the airport and questioned by two plainclothes cops who held me while they examined it. They got my keys from me so they could take it out of the case. I said I was going to a convention and target practice, which was true because I already had the address to a range near where I was going. They let me go. I believe if I didn't say "target practice" right there I would have been arrested. The police wrer trying hard to intimidate me but I knew that once I said target practice I should be ok.

 

I made sure to actually go to that range once I got there and shoot and keep the receipt and bring a shot up target back with me in case there was any question when i got back that I actually was going target shooting.

 

Any time you travel you want to have NJ statutory exemptions fulfilled and ready to be substantiated.

 

Taking rifles and shotguns ought not be a problem at Newark as long as you have a FID because with that card possession is legal in and of itself. Pistols are a problem if you are not ready with a legitimate exemption ready to use that bears scrutiny.

 

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[Buns of Guns 7]

 

Any time you travel you want to have NJ statutory exemptions fulfilled and ready to be substantiated.

 

That's a good idea just in case the FOPA safety net falls through.  NJ gun owners should always be prepared to confidently reference NJS 2c, 39-6 exemption laws in case of a police confrontation like yours. And lastly, don't succumb to their intimidation tactics. 

[supranatural 66]

926A only protects travelers who are "inside a vehicle with the firearm inaccessible". As soon as you step outside of the vehicle with the firearm you are no longer protected by 926A.

How about if you leave the firearms inside the vehicle but go into a motel for lodging overnight on the way to your out of state destination?

 

 

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[ryan_j 0]

How about if you leave the firearms inside the vehicle but go into a motel for lodging overnight on the way to your out of state destination?

 

 

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Gray area open for interpretation.

[ryan_j 0]

That's a good idea just in case the FOPA safety net falls through.  NJ gun owners should always be prepared to confidently reference NJS 2c, 39-6 exemption laws in case of a police confrontation like yours. And lastly, don't succumb to their intimidation tactics. 

 

Agreed.

 

I always have my range pass and membership card with me in the car.

I NEVER consent to any search.

All firearms are out of sight, out of mind. 

[mipafox 438]

 

Agreed.

 

I always have my range pass and membership card with me in the car.

I NEVER consent to any search.

All firearms are out of sight, out of mind. 

 

That range pass won't do you any good unless you answer "Where you headed?" with "The Range" when you are pulled over with your guns "out of sight and out of mind."

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

 

 

That range pass won't do you any good unless you answer "Where you headed?" with "The Range" when you are pulled over with your guns "out of sight and out of mind."

I have yet to be pulled over while transporting, but my answer to the "where have you come from?" or "where are you heading?" questions is the relevant town. It is truthful but does not lead to a question about whether guns are on board.

 

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[mipafox 438]

I have yet to be pulled over while transporting, but my answer to the "where have you come from?" or "where are you heading?" questions is the relevant town. It is truthful but does not lead to a question about whether guns are on board.

 

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A municipality is not going to be good enough to end that conversation.

 

That's why my response is Go Fugg Yourself, courtesy of my lawyer.

[ryan_j 0]

 

 

That range pass won't do you any good unless you answer "Where you headed?" with "The Range" when you are pulled over with your guns "out of sight and out of mind."

 

I once was asked that question, all I said was, "home." Got off with a warning. 

[ryan_j 0]

A municipality is not going to be good enough to end that conversation.

 

That's why my response is Go Fugg Yourself, courtesy of my lawyer.

 

Keep that kind of talk West of the Delaware. Here you'll likely prompt a full vehicle search... 

[mipafox 438]

Keep that kind of talk West of the Delaware. Here you'll likely prompt a full vehicle search... 

I doubt it. There are a few bad apples in every profession, but I trust that police have the highest standards of honor and follow the law at all times. I trust them. They would not do such a thing.

[ryan_j 0]

I doubt it. There are a few bad apples in every profession, but I trust that police have the highest standards of honor and follow the law at all times. I trust them. They would not do such a thing.

You are correct. Lol

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I have yet to be pulled over while transporting, but my answer to the "where have you come from?" or "where are you heading?" questions is the relevant town. It is truthful but does not lead to a question about whether guns are on board.

 

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I would think the next question would be, "What were you doing?"

 

Anyway, I have a hard time believing that if I'm heading to Newark Airport to go to Florida, or some other place where I can legally carry, that I would get in trouble for having a cased, unloaded handgun in my vehicle.

 

Moreover, in my nearly 62 years, I have never had my vehicle searched.  Well, except for one time many years ago.  I had a carload of people in costume coming back from a Halloween party.  We all had had quite a bit to drink.  (They weren't as strict about that way back then.)  A scared, young local police officer saw my NY plates and pulled me over.  He made me get out of the car and open my trunk, because he said he had a report of a car from NY with shotguns on board.  When I opened my trunk, the only thing in it was a fiberglass Mr. Peanut that had been someone's costume.  When he

asked me what it was, I innocently replied, "It's a peanut!"

 

He let me go without further ado.  The funny thing is that if I got pulled over these days, I would probably have a shotgun in my trunk.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

A municipality is not going to be good enough to end that conversation.

 

That's why my response is Go Fugg Yourself, courtesy of my lawyer.

 

It depends on the reason for the stop. If he's looking to hook you up with a gun charge because you were waving it about as you drove along, I'd agree with you. However, the vast majority of stops are for moving violations and the cop has no reason to suspect there is a firearm on board until you tell him by saying I just came from x range.

[ryan_j 0]

Anyway, I have a hard time believing that if I'm heading to Newark Airport to go to Florida, or some other place where I can legally carry, that I would get in trouble for having a cased, unloaded handgun in my vehicle.

 

Maybe. But it could end up like what happens at NYC airports. If you have a cased, unloaded firearm, attempt to check it in and don't have a NYC license, the airline clerks will call the cops on you, and you will most likely be arrested. If you have a NYC premises license, they'll probably call the cops on you, and courtesy of the Beach v Kelly decision, your permit will be revoked. 

 

I have no idea why this doesn't happen in NJ to NJ residents, which is why when flying with a firearm I prefer to NOT fly out of NJ airports and be a possible test case... I'd rather fly out of PA or CT where I have valid permits to carry so there can be no question as to the legality of possession. 

[plode 0]

I flew out of Atlantic City yesterday with my CCW pistol in my checked baggage(declared of course).  No issues. 

[ryan_j 0]

I flew out of Atlantic City yesterday with my CCW pistol in my checked baggage(declared of course).  No issues. 

 

And you're not current or retired law enforcement, correct? 

[kman 56]

If you fly out of NJ with a handgun to declare and check, be sure to have with you a printout of a public target range in your destination city, and the intention of going target shooting there when you arrive. Then you have your exemption documented and fleshed out right there. Coming back make sure you actually went to the range there and take a picture of it. Then you are covered on the way back.

 

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[supranatural 66]

If you fly out of NJ with a handgun to declare and check, be sure to have with you a printout of a public target range in your destination city, and the intention of going target shooting there when you arrive. Then you have your exemption documented and fleshed out right there. Coming back make sure you actually went to the range there and take a picture of it. Then you are covered on the way back.

 

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Does this apply to hunting as well? As well, some states are much more flexible about guns and you can find places outdoors to shoot so you don't even need to go to an official range..like the Midwest.

 

 

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[mipafox 438]

I flew out of Atlantic City yesterday with my CCW pistol in my checked baggage(declared of course).  No issues. 

You realize it's 5 to 10 years in jail, right? The judge is not going to say, "Oh, this is a misunderstanding, he has a clean record, I'm dismissing the case and/or giving him probation."

 

Not going to happen. You better know what you are doing.

 

Keep in mind that part of what you are doing is deliberately exposing yourself in the commission of a Second Degree Crime. This isn't like if you had a handgun in your trunk and went over to your brother's house, and there has to be some miracle for them to catch you. You have it all hanging out there and are inviting other people to get involved (the airline, TSA, and possibly cops).

[Parker 213]

Does this apply to hunting as well? As well, some states are much more flexible about guns and you can find places outdoors to shoot so you don't even need to go to an official range..like the Midwest.

 

 

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I've been in airports in AZ, UT, TX & CO during the fall hunting season, and you see scores of people transporting firearms to hunt. It's different out West. Besides New Jersey possessing such Draconian gun laws; who flies in to NJ to go hunting? 

[kman 56]

Does this apply to hunting as well? As well, some states are much more flexible about guns and you can find places outdoors to shoot so you don't even need to go to an official range..like the Midwest.

 

 

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Rifles you need not worry your NJ FPID card covers you in terms of having rifles with you no questions asked. It is handguns that are potentially problematic when flying out of state.

 

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[kman 56]

Does this apply to hunting as well? As well, some states are much more flexible about guns and you can find places outdoors to shoot so you don't even need to go to an official range..like the Midwest.

 

 

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And if you are hunting with a handgun no problem if you have the hunting license with you. That is an exemption.

 

The problem is there is no NJ exemption for transport with the intention of legally carrying out of state. Or at least it is not explicitly stated. So always be prepared to demonstrate an intention to go to an actual range where you are going for target practice when you bring your self defense tool to the ticket counter to declare it.

 

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[mipafox 438]

 

Does this apply to hunting as well? As well, some states are much more flexible about guns and you can find places outdoors to shoot so you don't even need to go to an official range..like the Midwest.

 

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You can shoot outdoors in Jersey without it being an "official" range. I would guess you can in every state. Local ordinances vary, of course.

 

I've been in airports in AZ, UT, TX & CO during the fall hunting season, and you see scores of people transporting firearms to hunt. It's different out West. Besides New Jersey possessing such Draconian gun laws; who flies in to NJ to go hunting? 

It's different in the East. Pennsylvania has more people in the field on opening day of Deer Rifle than any other state has any day of the year. Also the highest percentage of the population in the field hunting that day than any day in any other state. Outside of the Philly area the majority of schools are closed and many businesses close as well.

 

But PA is not a huge hunting destination for people from other states.

[GRIZ 3,369]

And you're not current or retired law enforcement, correct?

 

When I was still working (Federal LEO) I always carried my gun on the plane (with proper notifications). Those were the only times I encountered a PAPD officer at Newark, JFK, or La Guardia. Since I retired (2005) I have always flown with a handgun in my checked baggage from those airports (if my destination was in the US) and never have had to do anything but sign the form, put the tag in m baggage, and wait for TSA to clear the bag.

[mipafox 438]

When I was still working (Federal LEO) I always carried my gun on the plane (with proper notifications). Those were the only times I encountered a PAPD officer at Newark, JFK, or La Guardia. Since I retired (2005) I have always flown with a handgun in my checked baggage from those airports (if my destination was in the US) and never have had to do anything but sign the form, put the tag in m baggage, and wait for TSA to clear the bag.

This has only been law for 6 months, they could decide to start putting people in jail at any time. It would be 100% legal for them to do so, most people (not sure of your status) are committing serious crimes taking handguns to NJ airports. Unless they think they can get relief from the US Supreme Court some day while rotting in a New Jersey prison.

[ryan_j 0]

This has only been law for 6 months, they could decide to start putting people in jail at any time. It would be 100% legal for them to do so, most people (not sure of your status) are committing serious crimes taking handguns to NJ airports. Unless they think they can get relief from the US Supreme Court some day while rotting in a New Jersey prison.

Pretty much this, except that NJ residents "may" be covered under the exemptions and not under FOPA. This is why you need to he going to a range when you travel.

[GRIZ 3,369]

This has only been law for 6 months, they could decide to start putting people in jail at any time. It would be 100% legal for them to do so, most people (not sure of your status) are committing serious crimes taking handguns to NJ airports. Unless they think they can get relief from the US Supreme Court some day while rotting in a New Jersey prison.

I have a NJ Retired Police Officer Permit and am qualified to carry under LEOSA. However, I never have been asked for or presented any ID other than my driver's license when declaring the gun in my checked baggage. That's at any airport including Newark, La Guardia, or JFK. Never had any police called over anywhere. That includes O'Hare before the Heller and McDonald decisions. O'Hare was the only place the ticketing agent asked to see the gun was unloaded.

[plode 0]

And you're not current or retired law enforcement, correct? 

 

No, I'm not. 

 

If you fly out of NJ with a handgun to declare and check, be sure to have with you a printout of a public target range in your destination city, and the intention of going target shooting there when you arrive. Then you have your exemption documented and fleshed out right there. Coming back make sure you actually went to the range there and take a picture of it. Then you are covered on the way back.

 

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I already went to the range today with my friend.  I have the receipt with my name on it(used my debit card to pay for the range time).   

I'm also going hunting down here for wild hogs, and handguns are allowed to be used(also have a FL FWC hunting permit).  

 

There was a State Trooper standing right at the ticket counter about 20ft away when I declared the pistol.  He didn't say a word or even move from where he was standing. It's pretty obvious when the lady at the counter pulls out the big orange tag that says "Firearm Declaration" right on it.  I'm sure he saw it too, as there was no one but me at the counter at the time. 

I used to work for the TSA and I can tell you that people(non LEO) fly with pistols quite often.  The TSA does not open the firearms case anymore.  Nor does the ticket agent require you to display that it is unloaded.  I just had to sign the tag attesting that it was unloaded. 

I have flown with pistols to and from florida for quite some time, pretty regularly to be honest, and never have any issues. 

[kman 56]

So basically it appears that things are relatively reasonable at newark airport now. Good. Still gonna be prepared in case someone in the PAPD decides to change their policy and procedure, which can happen at any time without notice.

 

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