exact statute that requires 30 day turnaround for FID/permits?

[boo 6]

Does anyone have the exact statute that requires a 30 day turnaround on FID/permits?  I just learned my mayor is Republican and not on Bloomberg's list of gun-grabbing mayors. I'm going to write him, hope he'll be sympathetic and see if he can push things along.

[NYMetsFan86 9]

I believe it is 2C:58-3(f)

[boo 6]

Thanks!

[NYMetsFan86 9]

no problem 

[nuclearheli 40]

2C:58-3.f to be exact

 

f. Granting of permit or identification card; fee; term; renewal; revocation. The application for the permit to purchase a handgun together with a fee of $2.00, or the application for the firearms purchaser identification card together with a fee of $5.00, shall be delivered or forwarded to the licensing authority who shall investigate the same and, unless good cause for the denial thereof appears, shall grant the permit or the identification card, or both, if application has been made therefor, within 30 days from the date of receipt of the application for residents of this State and within 45 days for nonresident applicants. A permit to purchase a handgun shall be valid for a period of 90 days from the date of issuance and may be renewed by the issuing authority for good cause for an additional 90 days. A firearms purchaser identification card shall be valid until such time as the holder becomes subject to any of the disabilities set forth in subsection c. of this section, whereupon the card shall be void and shall be returned within five days by the holder to the superintendent, who shall then advise the licensing authority. Failure of the holder to return the firearms purchaser identification card to the superintendent within the said five days shall be an offense under section 2C:39-10a. Any firearms purchaser identification card may be revoked by the Superior Court of the county wherein the card was issued, after hearing upon notice, upon a finding that the holder thereof no longer qualifies for the issuance of such permit. The county prosecutor of any county, the chief police officer of any municipality or any citizen may apply to such court at any time for the revocation of such card.

 

Here is where I believe you will run into a brick wall. The argument has been made by the state that the "New Jersey State Police" is the licensing authority and therefore they are responsible for submitting the response in 30 days, and they claim they do ("They Claim"). However the local police departments are involved prior to and after the submission and it is this part of the process that seems to be the issue around the state. For example, in my home town neither myself, my children, wife and friends that I know of have NEVER waited more than 30 days to receive permits. In most cases it's been three weeks. However in some townships I am told that the police departments are telling people it could take up to 6 months to get the permits. So what's the real problem. How can one township (and there are others) always achieve the 30 day limit while others simply do not. I can guarantee that the SP are not "picking" on townships at random so why is there such an issue?

 

And remember, there is no law that governs how the local police process your requests. If they leave it in a folder for a clerk to do once/month, that is up to them.

 

I doubt you will get anywhere with this but I wish you luck.

 

[Howard 538]

The only problem is the great NJ courts have ruled that the statute is not worth the paper its written on - got to love how judges rewrite the laws in this state.

[joshroz2 4]

The only problem is the great NJ courts have ruled that the statute is not worth the paper its written on - got to love how judges rewrite the laws in this state.

which statute, and with what case? I'm curious on the case law of this issue.

[joshroz2 4]

If the NJSP claim they do it in 30 days then why are they one of the longest waits in the state for permits. Such a bunch of BSers the NJSP.

Also i would argue that they are not the issuing authority for me. My town does everything. All the NJSP does is send a record check. They don't investigate, my town does and issues pemits via the chief.

[boo 6]

From talking to the detective handling my application, I'm under the impression that he has everything he needs from third parties, and the only thing holding me back is him getting to run "certain checks", but there are a pile of applicants ahead of me in line. I don't have any illusions of trying to change the system, and I'm certainly not even going to try threatening legal action. I'm just looking for something that will get my application pulled out of the middle of the stack and moved to the top. Now he seemed pretty certain that I'd have it by month end, but I'm just sick and tired of waiting. I don't think I should need to feel grateful because mine was processed in 4 months while someone else going directly through NJSP is waiting 6+ months, and it just freaking gets me steamed that just across the border in PA someone has more trouble trying to buy a six-pack of beer than they do a shotgun! Now, I'm pissed....I think I'm going to blow-off some steam by stealing some Booker for Senate signs....

[njJoniGuy 2,133]

.. Now, I'm pissed....I think I'm going to blow-off some steam by stealing some Booker for Senate signs....

... then taking them to the range for some heartfelt target practice!

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

which statute, and with what case? I'm curious on the case law of this issue.

 

OK, you asked for it - hopefully this will be the definitive post about this topic. However, I will raise another question at the end of the explanation.

 

The case was: Adler (Plaintiff) v. Livak (Defendant)

Decided in the Superior Court of NJ Apellate Division - A-4878-96T5 on 02/11/1998

 

Here is the decision...

 

Finally, the result we reach is consonant with the public policy underlying the statutory scheme. Undoubtedly, the statutory deadline was prompted by a desire to avoid dilatory consideration of the application. But the consequences of automatic approval of a permit at the expiration of the thirty day period would be visited on the public for whose protection the statute was enacted. And the consequences of automatic denial of a permit at the expiration of the thirty day period would be visited on the deserving applicant for whose benefit the statutory scheme was enacted. Cf. Manalapan Holding Co., Inc. v. Hamilton Township Planning Bd., 92 N.J. 466, 480-82 (1983); Allstate Ins. Co. v. Fortunato, 248 N.J. Super. 153, 161-63 (App. Div. 1991). The simple and overriding fact is that the Legislature considered a fingerprint investigation to be critical in determining the fitness of an applicant for a permit. The remedy urged by plaintiff – automatic approval or denial of a permit – would serve only to frustrate the legislative design and the public policy underlying the statute without any compensatory benefit to either the public or the individual applicant. See In re Purcell, 137 N.J. Super. 369 (App. Div. 1975); cf. In re Return of Weapons of J.W.D., 290 N.J. Super. 451 (App. Div. 1996), aff’d in part, rev’d in part, 149 N.J. 108 (1997).

 

You can read the entire decision here: http://njgunpermitattorney.com/tag/firearms-id-card/page/2/

scroll down to: "When is 30 days not 30 days?"

 

Essentially it says that it is not in the interest of public safety to automatically grant and FPID or P2P at the end of the 30 day term if the investigation is not complete.

 

Here is the crux of the matter - in this particular case, it was the results of the FBI criminal background check that was holding things up. The court even noted in its decision that it understands the FBI report routinely takes considerably longer than the 30 days, and its decision was based on this fact.

 

OK, here's the ringer: Please note that the date of the decision was February of 1998. At this point in time, the FBI was still doing manual fingerprint checks. In July of 1999 IAFIS (Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System) went on line. The average amount of time to check submitted fingerprints for a background check with IAFIS? 27 minutes.

 

At this point I am sure that the courts would hold that the decision is still valid. While the FBI has automated their fingerprint check, and NJ is also doing it (hence Sagem Morpho), I understand that the mental health records check is still a manual process and is done on a county by county basis. So if you have lived in more than one county in the last ten years, then they have to do multiple, manual checks - which is time consuming and, under this decision, would still be considered a valid reason for delay beyond 30 days.

 

We need to push for integrated (intrastate) automated mental health records. Then, and only then, can we revisit Adler v. Livak and push for a new decision, based on current technology, that puts teeth in the 30 day time limit.

 

JMHO

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[joshroz2 4]

informative, thank you.

[joshroz2 4]

From talking to the detective handling my application, I'm under the impression that he has everything he needs from third parties, and the only thing holding me back is him getting to run "certain checks", but there are a pile of applicants ahead of me in line. I don't have any illusions of trying to change the system, and I'm certainly not even going to try threatening legal action. I'm just looking for something that will get my application pulled out of the middle of the stack and moved to the top. Now he seemed pretty certain that I'd have it by month end, but I'm just sick and tired of waiting. I don't think I should need to feel grateful because mine was processed in 4 months while someone else going directly through NJSP is waiting 6+ months, and it just freaking gets me steamed that just across the border in PA someone has more trouble trying to buy a six-pack of beer than they do a shotgun! Now, I'm pissed....I think I'm going to blow-off some steam by stealing some Booker for Senate signs....

In my opinion he is BSing you. I wouldn't believe a word anyone in the PD says about how soon you will have it or why it's backed up. It might be in a stack but I highly doubt there is much holding him back from going through them quciker that is out of his control. In my opinion the only thing that would have a shot at getting yours looked at sooner in an appointment with the chief. Very politely explain that 4 months is BS.

[illy 1]

 

At this point I am sure that the courts would hold that the decision is still valid. While the FBI has automated their fingerprint check, and NJ is also doing it (hence Sagem Morpho), I understand that the mental health records check is still a manual process and is done on a county by county basis. So if you have lived in more than one county in the last ten years, then they have to do multiple, manual checks - which is time consuming and, under this decision, would still be considered a valid reason for delay beyond 30 days.

 

We need to push for integrated (intrastate) automated mental health records. Then, and only then, can we revisit Adler v. Livak and push for a new decision, based on current technology, that puts teeth in the 30 day time limit.

 

JMHO

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Very true.

Here's my situation:

 

I lived in 3 counties in the past 10 years. One of them is Passaic Co., where the turn around on the mental health check is 4-5 months (this has been verified by others).

Last time I put in for P2Ps, I followed up after about 6 weeks and the (awesome) woman who handles the process said "everything has been good to go for a while... expect Passaic Co."

Essex Co. has had some serious issues too (Sandy related).

So yeah, 30 days in doable. Unless there's a snag in the process.

That said, there are some PDs (including, it would seem, some NJSP barracks) that simply sit on your application because they just don't get a ****.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

What would help us with the current system is a means of transparency to view the process on an ongoing basis. You certainly don't want to add something that will only add to processing time - that's counterproductive - but some kind of check sheet that would be available to the applicant upon demand would certainly help. The major components of your local PD's investigatory process are: 1) The FBI check; 2) The SBI check; 3) The mental health records check; 4) Reference check (from those listed on the STS-033); 5) Other checks required to be done by the PD, like DMV etc.

 

Items 1 through 3 are beyond the PD's control, except for forwarding the requests to the proper agency. 4 & 5 are wholly within their control. A check sheet listing each item with fields for when that item was submitted/returned or task started/completed, would show anyone at any given time, where they are in the process.

 

I don't want to paint with a broad brush here, but I have no doubt that there are some PD's that purposefully delay the process, others that are short on manpower and others that just drag their feet for no good reason. Therefore the checksheet requirement would have to have some punitive measures attached if the process is not adhered to - something along the lines of official misconduct. This would be in the case where no check sheet is started or kept up to date, but when the applicant requests to see it, they falsify a sheet that paints them in a good light. An electronic check sheet, accessible on-line by the applicant would be great.

 

Pie in the sky. There are departments out there doing a good job - I happen to be fortunate enough to live in one such jurisdiction.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[ryan_j 0]

Very true.

Here's my situation:

 

I lived in 3 counties in the past 10 years. One of them is Passaic Co., where the turn around on the mental health check is 4-5 months (this has been verified by others).

Last time I put in for P2Ps, I followed up after about 6 weeks and the (awesome) woman who handles the process said "everything has been good to go for a while... expect Passaic Co."

Essex Co. has had some serious issues too (Sandy related).

So yeah, 30 days in doable. Unless there's a snag in the process.

That said, there are some PDs (including, it would seem, some NJSP barracks) that simply sit on your application because they just don't get a ****.

 

Jef Henninger is currently working on an application for a client that involves Passaic County, specifically the adjuster's office. They claim that they have 2x the workload and their staff is cut, which is why they are backed up 4 months now.

 

Sucks for me because I lived in Wayne for one year. I have an app for 3 permits in at NJSP. 

 

http://njgunpermitattorney.com/2013/10/09/passaic-county-adjusters-office-holding-up-gun-permit-applications/

[ryan_j 0]

What would help us with the current system is a means of transparency to view the process on an ongoing basis. 

 

Good luck with that. NJ2AS was trying to get the procedures manual from NJSP. They didn't succeed, I think the AG blocked them. 

[bhunted 887]

Referencing mostly Passaic County, but can apply elsewhere: I've been canvasing people and pd from all over for months and taking notes and trying to dig out the root. I currently have data submitted to the governors office and he's forwarding it for investigation by the Acting AG... Also to the Freeholders. I will also be hitting other offices in between.

 

Over abundance of aps is the cause, somewhat. They (Passaic County Mental Health), had 5 people doing health checks which on average was taking 9 weeks. They let 3 people go and now permits are up to 4 months!!! But even 9 weeks is a poor excuse. Most PD want this to all just go away. This can be bad or good!

 

So here is the gist of it. I live in Passaic County and have a good close relationship with my local pd. So these points will be based on Passaic County mainly.

 

Various towns in Passaic County -

Some are getting their permits much faster than others. Why? Couple reasons, one of which, illegal submissions. Aggravated and not submitting mental health forms or reference forms. Others? At top of the alphabet. I'll explain this in a bit.

 

Reports have shown that some towns outside of Passaic County, where the NJSP are involved, are getting mental health forms in 3-5 days but are sitting on their laurels just not completing the process. Towns in other counties lucky to not be in such a crap county like Passaic County where there is a major city or one a lot more laid and/or rural are getting theirs in 2-3 weeks!

 

Ok, about the alphabet statement. Had a lunch chat with my chief and captain the other day. He confirms it's the mental health forms. He has a theory that makes a lot of sense. He gets permit requests at all different times over months. He gets the process rolling right away. Yet when the reports come in, he'll get a batch of 20-30 all at once. He states that he strongly believes they go by town via alphabet. So in other words, if you live in a town starting with an 'A' and you are in a town like me with a 'W', you might be in the really screwed category. He states he gets the whole batch and sits and signs them all at once. My only contribution to his theory that they might not just be doing them town by town but not sending them out till they get a batch. This really would suck. Because if they had a magic number like 20 over a period in time and only got let's say, 8 in a similar period, they may be collecting dust till a batch from another town goes out.

 

So why the nonsense I proposed in my letters sent? While the panics have somewhat shrunk, less are applying. Why when just in April with 5 processors it took 9 weeks and now 4 months because they dismiss 3 processors when they are still crying backlog?

 

With me, it's not just about rights or wanting something any more. It's now about principle. My wife has been waiting over 10 weeks and in for the 4 month haul. Is this some pissy arse politician's plot that didn't get their way and passed along their rules on a fly to stifle gun buys? Everything they have done and tried in the past and still doing never made sense. I want somebody to investigate this crap and I will continue to pursue it as long as I can. This is a practice of "Official Misconduct" and they must be stopped. It is an illegal practice! I will hammer ever level of office with the threat of "Official Misconduct" until they are blue! If that don't help, lawyer up!

 

You must do your own investigation per your locale and narrow things down. Once you find the chink in the armor, work on hammering it out till it's smooth. Mass assemblies have impact, but not when the little weasels that think we cannot find them lie aside in the dark. Dig them out and pounce!

 

If you have no problem waiting, so be it. But not attacking it at each individual root will go no where!

 

 

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[Cmor1701d 0]

My latest P2Ps took 3 months, with at least a month of that waiting on Somerset County mental health check. One week was a delay while the captain was on vacation and a few days when he got back for me to stop in and increase the number of permits to 5. The Ocean County mental health forms were returned in about 45 days. When I stopped in to change the form and pay for the extra permits I mentioned a sale going on the following weekend at a lgs. I got my permits that Wednesday. :-)

[Barms 98]

BHunted: Nice summary and work done, for those of us in Passaic County.

[bhunted 887]

BHunted: Nice summary and work done, for those of us in Passaic County.

Thanks... Just reread my post. Made a couple word changes to clarify the 'who'....

 

Also, people need to work their own counties and towns. It's not just the state any more. It's lower level government obviously.

 

Surprised nobody else is using this data to open up their cans of worms.

 

Sent from John's iPad 2 via Tapatalk HD

Typos courtesy Apple...

[boo 6]

In my particular case, the mental health check wasn't an issue, and I confirmed this with the detective.

 

So I reach out to the mayor last week and he actually responds he'd look into it! He gets back to me this week having been told that the State is holding up applications, but he'd look into it further. I assume "State" was a reference to the NJSP, but he wasn't specific.

 

Lunker's comment here inspired me to call the NJSP. After being bounced around to a few different extensions, I finally landed at the Criminal Investigations Unit. According to them, the background check is initiated by Morphotrak the same day I'm fingerprinted, and the results are returned back to my PD via teletype the same day. I've forwarded that info along, so let's see what happens. I'll also add that everyone at NJSP was much more polite than I was expecting.

[mipafox 438]

If he chuckles at the 30-day statutory cite, follow up by pulling The Constitution out of your briefcase and get him into a full-blown ROTFLOL seizure.