nj ccw question

[Luso 6]

John Stossel gets it, and he's in NYC which is even more tyrannical than here

 

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2842638742001/stossel-special-war-on-the-little-guy/?playlist_id=935446234001

 

Make the system give you an answer and take a position

[louu 399]

What is newtown?

[Luso 6]

What is newtown?

The school shooting in newtown ct that prompted a wave of gun control bills across the country as well as NJ

 

I don't know who this person is, but so far he is my only hero in this state and has done more to advance ccw in NJ than any organization you can name

 

 

He asked for an application, and they denied him because he didn't have a "job that required it" (which is BS and not a requisite to exercise your right to apply)

 

He had the balls to publish this. He's not having some stupid discussion about whether asking for his right is a smart thing to do. He understands to cry foul you first have to prove you are being denied.

 

Imagine if we had 100 videos in 100 cities across NJ where this same result happened? You would give the nj state police and legislators a huge black eye. You will have proven they categorically are denying you the ability to apply for something you should be able to. Looking tyrannical is not in their interest when they want us quiet and complacent. They prey on the fact that us dummies are sitting here debating to ask for a right, as opposed to this guy who not only asks for it, but intelligently documents it for posterity.

 

That is already 10xs more effective than anything the NRA or anyone else has done for ccw in NJ. No one is coming to save us. We have to tell them what we want to do, and then execute. We need 5000 people like this gentleman in Elizabeth NJ to get in their faces and start demanding what we want, and what we lawfully should be able to at least APPLY for.

 

First you embarrass the ones that refuse your application, then you prove the courts themselves are tyrannical and that May issue is a total joke. Then we go from there. You will get the media's attention, guaranteed , and the enemy will look really bad

[ogfarmer 138]

the video you have posted in one of many that is part of the NJ2AS project

[brocglock23 4]

the video you have posted in one of many that is part of the NJ2AS project

are you saying the nj2as put him up to it or he did it on his own and the nj2as somehow got involved.

 

droid maxx is way better than the note 2

 

 

[ogfarmer 138]

Part of the project is people are asked to go and request the forms and document the experience. Individuals made recordings of their encounters.

[Pythagoras 2]

Ok Luso, I am officially convinced.

 

Let's do this.

[brocglock23 4]

I'm giving the nj2as this year to do something productive as far as carry goes. I think regardless come beginning of 2014 I'm applying. I don't want numbers to get lost in 2013.

 

droid maxx is way better than the note 2

 

 

[Luso 6]

the video you have posted in one of many that is part of the NJ2AS project

That is the only video I can find in NJ. Can you share the links to some others? Would love to watch it

[louu 399]

Thanks Luso, Its a shame to say but there is so many school shootings anymore that I am numb to the fact that these things happen in this country in this day and age. I mean its unbelievable that this country sent an aircraft carrier and 20 BILLION USD to the Philippines but we cant have metal detectors and good security officers protecting the children of this country. Or even pay the people that teach them a decent wage.

 

I would go to my local PD with a hidden camera and see what they say like the guy in the video but I think the police in my little town are okay guys. I'm also afraid that if it went the way his video did (and I'm sure it would) that if I posted it, I would be bringing a world of hell on myself from them.

[Night Prowler 0]

While I am all for pushing the issue of CCW in this state there is one huge flaw in this and that would be us.

The rallies this year had a turn out of a few hundred. Not nearly close to 5,000. The recent elections again show that we didn't show in numbers to push change.

With a million plus gun owners in this state and that is the representation we show just for the preservation of our rights.

Problem is this is NJ and people are only going to think of themselves and in the here and now not their children or future generations. It's easier to sit back, do nothing, and then bitch about the results.

To many people are going to take the mentality of well I don't want a black mark against me if I apply for permits or buy a gun so I'll let somebody else do it.

Until we can get large numbers of us to unite, I think we are our biggest obstacle.

[Luso 6]

While I am all for pushing the issue of CCW in this state there is one huge flaw in this and that would be us. The rallies this year had a turn out of a few hundred. Not nearly close to 5,000. The recent elections again show that we didn't show in numbers to push change. With a million plus gun owners in this state and that is the representation we show just for the preservation of our rights. Problem is this is NJ and people are only going to think of themselves and in the here and now not their children or future generations. It's easier to sit back, do nothing, and then **** about the results. To many people are going to take the mentality of well I don't want a black mark against me if I apply for permits or buy a gun so I'll let somebody else do it. Until we can get large numbers of us to unite, I think we are our biggest obstacle.

And that's where the 2a groups can help, in that they can push a button and alert 20,000 active citizens who would be more inclined to do this than the general population of 1 million gun owners who may not. Plus this can be done on your own time, unlike rallies that were intentionally taking place during business hours when normal people have to go to work

 

Look at the statistics- this is not some uphill battle that many think it is.. If we play our cards right you could generate a constitutional and civil rights crisis quite easily

 

There are 8 million people in the state. Roughly 32,0000 active permits exist as of 2 years ago (source: http://www.gao.gov/assets/600/592552.pdf#page80) those are the government's own numbers, not some 2a group's contention

 

That amounts to less than half of a percent of the total population with a carry permit, and roughly half of a percent of the total adult population

 

Assuming its 32,000 total active permits, I would venture that 1,000 to 2,000 new people get permits annually. That is an incredibly small number of new applicants. If we can convince just 1000 people, which is completely realistic, to get rejected started January 2013, you can effectively take the acceptance rate to HALF. Do you see the civil rights crisis you can brew once you do that? Can you imagine if someone could discover a politician that has a permit (we know some of them already!) and put their face next to the faces of 20 black children shot and killed last year In Newark, Camden and Paterson, and ask why their pasty fat white guy doesn't need a justifiable need to carry a gun, while there is a holocaust against black children in our inner cities? You would cause a revolution

 

There are so many places you can take this discussion once you cut the acceptance rate in half or more. You will create a civil rights crisis, and now all those people with permits look like tyrannical elitist deuchebags. You will prove to the nation that the reputation of being a mafia run state is completely true, except that the mafia is the state itself, shelling out permits to friends and politicians but denying every single upstanding citizen for no criminal reason whatsoever. It's stupendously arbitrary, and all we have to do is GET REJECTED in order to manufacture that outrage. The state will NOT look good having to defend a terrible stance like this! Christie is eyeing a presidency in 2016- you think he wants something like this on his hands? Or that he wants to look anti-second amendment before he goes to convince texans they should vote for him?

 

The time unequivocally is now. There is nothing to wait for. This onslaught of applications should begin January 1 without delay. The only thing it costs is a little bit of time and a little bit of money from each of us to apply, and to be honest, in the long run you will do more for your carry rights in applying for a rejected application than you will donating to the NRA for a year's membership (and probably cheaper too)

[Se9 0]

Finally some one with balls

I would love to try what do we have to lose

[olderguy 0]

I'm in.

 

I didn't apply in 2013 because I sent my CCW application to the person I used for my FPID reference years ago.

 

He was my lawyer and a long time family friend but I hadn't followed his recent career moves.

 

In the interim he had become a judge and couldn't sign it. :-(

[checko 180]

I'm in.

 

I didn't apply in 2013 because I sent my CCW application to the person I used for my FPID reference years ago.

 

He was my lawyer and a long time family friend but I hadn't followed his recent career moves.

 

In the interim he had become a judge and couldn't sign it. :-(

He doesn't happen to preside over ccw applications fdoes he?

[olderguy 0]

He doesn't happen to preside over ccw applications fdoes he?

I wish---Family Court

[Se9 0]

So how do we get this started

[Se9 0]

So how do we get this started

[Luso 6]

So how do we get this started

Make it abundantly evident to NJ's 2A groups that you belong to, that you demand this project begin on January 1 with their help and coordination, and that you are willing to do what it takes to assist and participate in the effort. Find out what position the groups are willing to take on doing this ASAP

 

Post whatever answers you receive , and spread the message. Let's see who's about talk, and who's about action

[Se9 0]

Ok

[mipafox 438]

Part of the project is people are asked to go and request the forms and document the experience. Individuals made recordings of their encounters.

I humbly agree. Someone may find standing and/or evidence of additional Constitutional violations that somebody like Gura can use.

 

Keep a copy of everything, take notes, record if you think it is legal and advisable (I don't know).

 

Just don't stick cameras in peoples' faces and act like a d-bag.

[Luso 6]

NJ is a one party consent state. Anyone on a public space can be recorded without consent

 

Can someone point to the other instances where nj2as people recorded their interactions trying to get the application? I can't find any.

 

Also, had anyone interacted with any members of a NJ second amendment group and gotten a communication from them as to whether they will help this campaign?

[mipafox 438]

They don't call it the "PRNJ" for nothing. As an outsider, I'm just making it clear I don't want to encourage perilous behavior. The laws are your business, not mine.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

ok i'm back again......i just made a post of the following. i should've put it here to begin with, and if any of the mods would either lock that one, or delete it for me.........

 

 i had mom run over to lindenwold pd for me, to pick up my application for some p2p's. i was one of the ones that wasn't able to get out to get my carry permit applications. due to this, i asked her to get that for me too. she didn't record, as she won't do that for me.....but she was told "we don't issue carry permits unless you're police or security.". she fell for it, and said nevermind then. i'll be taking the application back down there myself(it sucks, 'cause i'll have to close the shop for an hour or so), and i'm going to ask again. i will be recording.
this brings me to a question though.........i'm going to call down there, and tell them i want it, and that i know it's illegal for them to not give me the application......what statute is that?

 i'd like to know, as i'm going to call them tomorrow, before i go down to turn in and sign the application, so that they have it waiting there for me. it sounds as if they really don't want to give me the application, and i want my ducks in a row.......thanks dudes!

[olderguy 0]

You can download the form here:

 

http://www.njsp.org/info/forms.html#firearms

[1LtCAP 4,264]

thanks.........part of my point though, is to get the pd themselves to hand it to me. they either are lying, or they don't know. either way, i think that there should be zero resistance to getting this application, regardless of the fact i'll be refused......

[1LtCAP 4,264]

was just told by lindenwold that the judge here in camden county said all carry permit applications must go through belmawr state police barracks, and that only chance of approval is if job requires it.

[Luso 6]

was just told by lindenwold that the judge here in camden county said all carry permit applications must go through belmawr state police barracks, and that only chance of approval is if job requires it.

 

whatever it takes. and I know this sounds funny, but so long as we can get you and as many people possible rejected by some court within the state. Otherwise, we stay where we are stagnant, not advancing. 

 

FORWARD, never look back. I wish we had a thermometer somewhere on the home page of this website to keep track, and all board members should submit their rejection letters to see the thermometer going up, up, up.

 

Let the world know how tyrannical and arbitrary NJ politics are. it's an irrefutable, visual representation of our rights being denied, and a clear anecdote proving that "may issue" is a total, arbitrary joke that is only reserved for connected individuals.

[Luso 6]

Maybe everyone can sign their letter "NJ courts decided my life is not worth saving, but bank deposits are" or "future victim" and get those rejection numbers up up UP

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

 "NJ courts decided my life is not worth saving, but bank deposits are" 

 

This would be perfect to write after we check the box on future permits apps to explain why we have been rejected.