Keymod Rail Panels

[SgtToadette 59]

So I've been a big fan of the Keymod rail interface and it seems that a lot of companies are on board with the concept. You have VLTOR and Noveske collaborate on the design, and have companies like PWS, BCM, KAC, HSP, and others adopting and developing compatible products.

 

It seemed that for a while, Noveske was the only company offering rail panels which directly attach to the interface, maintaining the low weight and profile inherent with the design. To be honest, I wasn't entirely happy with the NSR panels. While they are really modular, grippy, and have the option to install a hand-stop, they don't feel sturdy on the rifle unless you exclusively use the large panels.

 

Here's a picture:

 

 

I recently acquired a set of panels from Knights Armament that are a part of their keymod series called URX4. It's worth mentioning that I had a really hard time installing these on my PWS rail. I had to file down some portions of the panels to get them to fit without working my fingers raw and chipping a rubber mallet. That said, I did need to lightly file some NSR panels to get them to lock in properly. As a result, however, the URX4 panels are significantly more secure on the rail. Rock solid. I hope that KAC will make a compatible hand-stop like Noveske did.

 

Here's a picture of the URX4 panels:

 

 

One negative aspect of the URX4 rail is that it uses a lot of space. I would need to cut them down if I wanted to fit more than one panel on the rail. That's not to say that putting more than one panel on any one side is remotely necessary, though.

 

If anyone is thinking about getting a rail system for an AR build, I highly recommend going with keymod. It's super light and versatile. The pool of products isn't nearly as big as traditional 1913 rails, but it's growing fast.

[checko 180]

Why do you need the rail panels if there are no slots?  I thought they were so you dont catch your gear on the slot rails.

[SgtToadette 59]

Why do you need the rail panels if there are no slots? I thought they were so you dont catch your gear on the slot rails.

For added grip and heat protection mostly.

[checko 180]

Fair enough.  I like having a small vfg so I don't know that I would use them but the keymod stuff seems to be growing in popularity.  I obviously like the idea of attaching accessories directly and quickly to the rail. 

[SgtToadette 59]

Fair enough.  I like having a small vfg so I don't know that I would use them but the keymod stuff seems to be growing in popularity.  I obviously like the idea of attaching accessories directly and quickly to the rail. 

 

Unfortunately nobody makes a keymod vfg, but I'm sure it's in the works. Rumor has it that BCM is working on some keymod accessories that they'd likely show off at Shot Show. On that note, I think Shot Show will be pretty keymod heavy.

[n4p226r 105]

The problem with the keymod rails is that the noveske ones are the only ones that look good. That's the first time I've seen the kac ones. And they aren't cheap from what I can recall. The bcm panels are ugly. Hopefully magpul will come out with something nice.

[SgtToadette 59]

The problem with the keymod rails is that the noveske ones are the only ones that look good. That's the first time I've seen the kac ones. And they aren't cheap from what I can recall. The bcm panels are ugly. Hopefully magpul will come out with something nice.

I agree about the BCM panels. They have a Fisher Price™ vibe to them (which is kind of hysterical). If the Noveske panels were more solid I'd use them exclusively, especially with the ability to seamlessly integrate a handstop.

 

If Magpul came out with a kit I would be so happy. They only seem to cater to popular platforms (look how long it took them to make AK accessories) and will probably wait for Keymod to gain more traction before they hop on. Magpul is a lot of good things, but entrepreneurs they are not. Maybe I'll send them an email with some comments.

[raz-0 1,259]

I'm seeing keymod as a solution in search of a problem. Unless the problem is trying to come up with some reason to get people to buy something they already own a second time to facilitate making money in an over saturated market.

 

For the consumer, the only real benefit is being able to move around rail segments without the shenanigans of handling the backing nut.

[n4p226r 105]

I think you give it too little credit. There is weight savings over a quad rail. Reduced profile in the size of the rail. More comfort than a quad rail to hold for some. And a sturdy attachment system that doesn't require screwing on a picatinny first. I find it to be a improved evolution of tube rails that allowed screw on picatinny. And being open source, it has the potential to grow

[SgtToadette 59]

I'm seeing keymod as a solution in search of a problem. Unless the problem is trying to come up with some reason to get people to buy something they already own a second time to facilitate making money in an over saturated market. For the consumer, the only real benefit is being able to move around rail segments without the shenanigans of handling the backing nut.

 

It's all about the weight.

 

A Daniel Defense 12in Lite Rail weighs in at 14oz and a PWS 15in Keymod rail weights 13.3oz. So I'm getting a longer rail for less weight. It's important weight too, because it's coming off the muzzle end of the rifle. Accessories also weigh less because the interface is more efficient.

 

I've never owned a traditional 1913 rail so replacing all my accessories isn't a big deal.

[raz-0 1,259]

It's all about the weight.

 

A Daniel Defense 12in Lite Rail weighs in at 14oz and a PWS 15in Keymod rail weights 13.3oz. So I'm getting a longer rail for less weight. It's important weight too, because it's coming off the muzzle end of the rifle. Accessories also weigh less because the interface is more efficient.

 

I've never owned a traditional 1913 rail so replacing all my accessories isn't a big deal.

 

And my 12" carbon fiber tube weighs 5.4 oz, including barrel nut. WIth the rail segments I need, it's still under 6oz.  You can think it is about weight, but none of the keymod stuff are kicking the butt of the tubes with bolt on rail segments that just go through slots or holes.  The NSR is one of the lgihtest, and with the barrel nut, the 11" rail weighs over 11.1oz. The Troy alpha rail at 11" weighs 10.8. With the old attachment system it weighed even less. Rail segments come with it, and it goes on sale at least once a year for about $130 . Additional segments cost half of what a metal keymod rail segment goes for. The NSR is $250 and comes with a tube and a nut and nothing else. On top of that, it is even skinnier than the aleady skinny troy, to the point that even a lot of women need to slap the clip on scales onto it to make it comfortable to use with a supinated grip. Add more money. I can see why the industry that has too many accessory makers and a pretty saturated market thinks that this could be awesome. 

 

Like I said, the only thing 100% truly better is the fact that things attach easily form the outside. So if you want to play black rifle barbie with your gear, that's nice. If you know what you want, it's kind of useless and just costs more. 

[SgtToadette 59]

And my 12" carbon fiber tube weighs 5.4 oz, including barrel nut. WIth the rail segments I need, it's still under 6oz.  You can think it is about weight, but none of the keymod stuff are kicking the butt of the tubes with bolt on rail segments that just go through slots or holes.  The NSR is one of the lgihtest, and with the barrel nut, the 11" rail weighs over 11.1oz. The Troy alpha rail at 11" weighs 10.8. With the old attachment system it weighed even less. Rail segments come with it, and it goes on sale at least once a year for about $130 . Additional segments cost half of what a metal keymod rail segment goes for. The NSR is $250 and comes with a tube and a nut and nothing else. On top of that, it is even skinnier than the aleady skinny troy, to the point that even a lot of women need to slap the clip on scales onto it to make it comfortable to use with a supinated grip. Add more money. I can see why the industry that has too many accessory makers and a pretty saturated market thinks that this could be awesome. 

 

Like I said, the only thing 100% truly better is the fact that things attach easily form the outside. So if you want to play black rifle barbie with your gear, that's nice. If you know what you want, it's kind of useless and just costs more. 

 

Bringing carbon fiber into the discussion is comparing apples to oranges. This isn't a conversation about carbon fiber vs. aluminum, it's a conversation about new mounting solutions vs. traditional mounting solutions. I'm looking at the specs for the BCM 13" keymod rail, which they're quoting at 7.7 oz. including mounting hardware. It's definitely pricey for a rail at $270 retail, but it's a brand spanking new system. The fact is that keymod is a subtractive mounting method and 1913 is an additive mounting method, regardless of whether or not you get to pick and choose where to mount it.

 

I have never heard the thin profile of keymod systems to be a complaint, only ever have I heard people raving about how the low profile allows for greater weapon control.

 

The problem with the modular rail panel handguards is that you need an intermediary mounting panel. So rather than simply throwing a foregrip on, for example, you need to throw on a 1913 panel, then the foregrip. You've now added an unneeded weight and bulk to every accessory you want to mount on the 3, 6, or 9 o'clock position. If I want to throw a light on the 3 o'clock side of my keymod system, I can directly attach a 1 oz mount to the handguard and be done. The light will also be closer to my hands natural resting position by maintaining a more consistent profile. That's not to mention that almost all new keymod rails makes have 8 mounting sides rather than the traditional 4.

 

Keymod isn't for everybody, but it's certainly not a bad choice and it's only going to continue to grow as more big companies adopt and develop products which direct attach. That was the point of my post. The product is still in the early stages and I'm trying to find out what works best with what the market has available right now.

[raz-0 1,259]

Yeah, except that a lot of things aren't going keymod direct because it limits your market. So for now, with a few exceptions, you are putting on a keymod rail and attaching picatinny accessories onto that.

 

Other than some sling mounts, and some impact weapons stuff, there's not a ton of accessories yet.

 

IMO it's not worth the price premium yet. Also ask why the premium. It is MUCH cheaper to machine keymod holes than to machine rail.

 

When prices come down? Sure, why not. Right now?

[raz-0 1,259]

Also, the bcm rail is a magnesium alloy. If I can't bring up cf, you can't bring up their alloy without proof that it isn't brittle and doesn't catch on fire at lower temps.

 

The idea of potentially putting gas tube melting temps near magnesium alloy doesn't make me feel good.

[n4p226r 105]

Yeah, except that a lot of things aren't going keymod direct because it limits your market. So for now, with a few exceptions, you are putting on a keymod rail and attaching picatinny accessories onto that.

 

Other than some sling mounts, and some impact weapons stuff, there's not a ton of accessories yet.

 

IMO it's not worth the price premium yet. Also ask why the premium. It is MUCH cheaper to machine keymod holes than to machine rail.

 

When prices come down? Sure, why not. Right now?

With the exception of a vertical grip, there really isn't much missing for keymod right now.

[SgtToadette 59]

With the exception of a vertical grip, there really isn't much missing for keymod right now.

BCM will be producing a vertical grip within a year.

[raz-0 1,259]

With the exception of a vertical grip, there really isn't much missing for keymod right now.

So who makes a keymod light? Offset sights? Keymod microdot? Keymod brass catcher? Keymod bipod? Keymod foregrip?

 

I know of several sling mounts, rail segments, a couple of hand stops. Dunno if there is a gas pedal, and a light mount.

 

Then, for any given item that does exist, is the keymod version cheaper or more expensive?

 

I'm not saying it is stupid, just too overpriced and under supported for my dollar at this point. Then there's the issue of will le sales buy into something that isn't a military standard when a competing, WIDELY adopted, military standard is available?

 

 

 

[SgtToadette 59]

So who makes a keymod light? Offset sights? Keymod microdot? Keymod brass catcher? Keymod bipod? Keymod foregrip?

 

I know of several sling mounts, rail segments, a couple of hand stops. Dunno if there is a gas pedal, and a light mount.

 

Then, for any given item that does exist, is the keymod version cheaper or more expensive?

 

I'm not saying it is stupid, just too overpriced and under supported for my dollar at this point. Then there's the issue of will le sales buy into something that isn't a military standard when a competing, WIDELY adopted, military standard is available?

 

KAC makes Offset Sights. BCM will have a VFG within a year. PWS makes a bipod adapter. HSP and Noveske have light mounts. Brass catcher? Really?

 

By your logic, nothing should ever replace 1913 because it's so widespread. Any new mounting option is going to have to overcome that hurdle and Keymod is doing very well considering how flooded the market is. If you're not willing to jump ship that's fine, but I don't think you're being fair to the system.

[raz-0 1,259]

KAC makes Offset Sights. BCM will have a VFG within a year. PWS makes a bipod adapter. HSP and Noveske have light mounts. Brass catcher? Really?

 

By your logic, nothing should ever replace 1913 because it's so widespread. Any new mounting option is going to have to overcome that hurdle and Keymod is doing very well considering how flooded the market is. If you're not willing to jump ship that's fine, but I don't think you're being fair to the system.

 

I didn't say bipod adapter. I said bipod. I can get a ton that attach to picatinny rail. I didn't say keymnod was a bad idea, I said it was decent engineering, but not something I would spend a premium on right now. Having ONE of something available is not what I consider well supported. 

 

Right now there are a TON of rail segments, and you can even buy them. All of two bipod adapters, One that is $40, and one that isn't in stock anywhere I looked for $25. There are theoretically a ton of sling mounts out there, but not widely stocked as inventory, still even in retail inventory there are 6 or 7 options for this key piece of gear since every single keymod rail I have seen comes with sockets built in. Want a loop.. eh not so much available. Want a handstop.. two. Want a gas pedal.. none. Want a foregrip, get in line, it'll arrive eventually. light mounts, I've seen the noveske one in stock and the IWC one (yes, they make the thorntail mount), that is it that I have found. 

 

That's a hurdle. I won't spend my money on it. You want to spend your's fine. I think the rail adapters will be plentiful for some time, probably even enough so that they become price competitive. 

 

IMO, they have a few obstacles to overcome, and it is being approached well, but it's not there. 

 

1) open spec - passed. 

2) Get some good handguards out there - passsed

3) get a LOT of handguards out there - in progress, going well. 

4) Get a lot of accessories out there -  barely started. 

5) get the price down

6) Get it in the hands of a lot of customers

 

I think in terms of accessories, there is another big obstacle that is engineered in. Namely you have to be able to have a clear path for screws to tighten down the keymod "key".  So like a low profile base for a micro t-1, or an x300 light? Hader to do. One piece foregrip? Gonna have to put holes in it. 

 

Add to that we are headed into a massive glut of black rifle stuff for everythign but ammo, and I think it puts at risk one of the factors that was encouraging rollout, which is the ability to charge a premium for it. Geiselle and noveske charge a premium, Now they have other premium brands in the water with them and a BUTTLOAD of cheaper ones. Having a high margin lets you keep inventory longer without moving it. 

 

As fro the brasscatcher, yeah, reload .223 you'll want one. Shoot 6.5 grendel or 6mmx45 or 6.8SPC and you will REALLY want one. IF you want one that works and doesn't interfere with your choice for optics, it has to mount on the side of your handguard to something solid. Myself, I liek the tactical brass recovery one. It lets you clear any stoppages, is very light, and works. 

[High Exposure 5,664]

Also, the bcm rail is a magnesium alloy. If I can't bring up cf, you can't bring up their alloy without proof that it isn't brittle and doesn't catch on fire at lower temps. The idea of potentially putting gas tube melting temps near magnesium alloy doesn't make me feel good.

I am sorry but that's retarded. Does anyone state that they fear Al hand guards will turn onto "thermite grenades" (thermite = Al, Fe, and heat).

 

Similar to stating that anything with iron in it will rust.

 

It is an alloy, not pure magnesium

 

There are two thermodynamic factors at play here when looking at Mg alloys and comparing them to Al: heat conduction (aka Thermal Conductivity) and thermal diffusivity.

 

Conduction measures how fast heat moves through a material. Al conducts heat around 25% faster than Mg but how fast heat is moved away from its source isn't the big issue here.

 

Diffusivity is the more important component. Mg and Al have similar thermal diffusivity.

 

High thermal diffusivity means a higher conductivity compared to heat storage capacity. This means that both materials conduct more heat than they store. This assists the barrel in cooling faster and more efficiently. Most relevant is this: everything being equal - same ammo, same rate of fire, same enviro conditions, wtc...) The outer surface of a Mg alloy tube will not get any hotter than the outer surface of an Al tube.

 

Mg alloy also has the advantage both in lower weight (about 2/3 of an identical aluminum handguard) & higher strength.

 

Also, the Keymod was not designed for recreational "commercial" users. It was an attempt to update the 1913 system with lighter (for troops fighting a 10 year war in the mountains), slimmer, stronger, free float rail that will mount mission essential/force multiplying accessories more securely (no tolerance stacking by adding rails to a tube type hand guard then accessories to rails) and securely retain and hold zero for soldiers that need to attach white & IR lights, visible & IR lasers, grips, BUIS, GL sights, slings, bipods, etc... allowing them quick and easy ability to re arrange their gear as missions dictated on the fly.

 

You may not like the Keymod system, or BCM's approach to it, and that's fine - I am not completely sold on it yet for my uses either, for a few reasons that you mentioned - but please stow the hyperbole.

 

And Sgt Toadette is right - bringing carbon fiber tubes into the discussion is apples to oranges. CF tubes are designed and are fine for competition and recreational guns. They have no place on "social" guns designated to serious work (I am not talking dedicated HD guns, but guns that are going to war).

[raz-0 1,259]

So you really think there is a chance that the military is going to toss out all their rail mounted gear and replace it with key mod anytime soon? Next two years? Five? Ten? What do you think the timeline is?

 

Is it even being evaluated?

 

It is at this point and time 100% for the civilian market.

 

Bitch about hyperbole and you put that up as an argument?

 

As for the bcm handguard, It's going to be thin aluminum magnesium alloy. Many aluminum bearing alloys demonstrate structural weakening at temps you can see under sustained fire. Sheets of about 1mm thickness will burn under a variety of circumstances and temps less than that needed to melt your gas tube. I don't think it would pass the military standards.

 

Then there's galvanic corrosion. Magnesium alloys can be specifically susceptible to it when subjected to ferrous metals and copper deposits as contact anodes/cathodes (I forget which it is). Good thing it won't be near either metal. Oh wait.

 

The bcm handguard has no more place in practical application than my cf handguards. His point was that keymod tubes are lighter than existing add-a-rail solutions. My point was that if you stick with run of the mill aluminum, they are not. No hyperbole.

 

As for tolerance stacking, you will still get it unless you have direct mount accessories. I'm sure the tolerance stacking in a sling mount or a light mount will get you killed in the real world or something. Seriously, what accessory or device will have that feature make or break it?

 

My OPINION is that the main practical purpose is to offer the opportunity to sell a saturated market a new version of the accessories they already bought a buttload of. I'm even fine with that. Cool toys are cool. I do think right now it is overpriced and undersupported. It is possible that can change, I'll let someone else fund that process.

 

 

 

 

 

[High Exposure 5,664]

So you really think there is a chance that the military is going to toss out all their rail mounted gear and replace it with key mod anytime soon? Next two years? Five? Ten? What do you think the timeline is?  Is it even being evaluated?It is at this point and time 100% for the civilian market.  **** about hyperbole and you put that up as an argument?  As for the bcm handguard, It's going to be thin aluminum magnesium alloy. Many aluminum bearing alloys demonstrate structural weakening at temps you can see under sustained fire.  Sheets of about 1mm thickness will burn under a variety of circumstances and temps less than that needed to melt your gas tube.  I don't think it would pass the military standards. Then there's galvanic corrosion. Magnesium alloys can be specifically susceptible to it when subjected to ferrous metals and copper deposits as contact anodes/cathodes (I forget which it is).  Good thing it won't be near either metal.  Oh wait. The bcm handguard has no more place in practical application than my cf handguards.  His point was that keymod tubes are lighter than existing add-a-rail solutions.  My point was that if you stick with run of the mill aluminum, they are not.  No hyperbole.  As for tolerance stacking, you will still get it unless you have direct mount accessories.  I'm sure the tolerance stacking in a sling mount or a light mount will get you killed in the real world or something.  Seriously, what accessory or device will have that feature make or break it?  My OPINION is that the main practical purpose is to offer the opportunity to sell a saturated market a new version of the accessories they already bought a buttload of.  I'm even fine with that. Cool toys are cool.  I do think right now it is overpriced and undersupported.  It is possible that can change, I'll let someone else fund that process.

What it was designed for and who actually uses it are two different things. There are probably more AR type rifles currently in the hands of civilians than US military users at any point in the day. Does that mean that ARs are a civilian market weapons. The SCAR was a flop as far as the US Military is concerned, the civilian market is now driving innovation on that platform. The industry is so intertwined it is impossible to separate. Look at all the stuff guys are using now compared to what they started this current war with. It is leaps and bounds ahead of what the had 10 years ago. A lot of that was driven by the civilian market designing gear for the military that could become a COTS solution to a supply issue.

 

As a matter if fact, there are currently a few different requests out there to upgrade the mil-std rails now in current use by US forces. One is the M4 FRAK solicitation:

 https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=36b04fa8e5e8d8792dc018b065d03288&tab=core&_cview=1 

 

Is the keymod on any of these solicitation lists? I don't know.

 

The hyperbole I was referring to was the claim that they will burst into flame when in contact with a hot barrel. C'mon, you know that won't happen.

 

The "tolerance stacking" comes into play in a few ways:

 

2 attachment systems that could fail instead of one - causing a loss of zero of a sighting system, the loss of sensitive equipment (DBAL) or mission essential gear (lights, slings). The loss of any of these abilities can mean non mission capabale personnel, a failed objective or worse.

 

By adding a section of bolt on 1913 rail you are not saving all the weight or reducing the profile as much as you could. The tube style hand guards are getting there, but the aren't there yet. The Keymod is a step in the right direction for a fighting rifle IMO. Definitely a step further than a carbon fiber tube setup.

 

Again, I don't totally disagree with everything you are saying. There is not a lot of support for this product, they are expensive for little to no weight savings. I just think you are viewing this product from very limited frame of reference. Personally, I would like a slimmer lighter handguard with direct mount equipment options. I am hoping this takes off, in a big way.

[n4p226r 105]

Raz-o. I think it's safe to say that you are not currently a keymod fan. But I don't get why you are so animated about it. There are some of us that dislike picatinny. Sure we can go with the geissele or Troy and bolt a piece of rail that will accomplish similar things but I don't see how they are the same.

 

The only downside that I can see eye to eye with you is cost.

 

Weight savings keymod beats picatinny. Ties with tube style (like the Troy)

Smaller profile keymod beats picatinny and ties with tube style

Open source config. Tie with picatinny and beats tube style. (Unless you count bolting a picatinny on there as open source)

Ability to not stack devices. Ties picatinny and beats tube

Cost. Picatinny is all over the place so we can say tie there. Loses to tube.

accessories made specifically for it loses to picatinny. Beats tube. Will most likely grow to get closer to equal to picatinny.

 

As for the military adopting it who cares. The government isn't known as getting cutting edge equipment for their guys. If the civilian market drives it, that's good enough

 

 

I think what we are seeing is the first few years in development of a platform that can one day be a successful alternative to picatinny. Not replace it.

 

[raz-0 1,259]

It doesn't beat tube for open standards. Tube radius is all that matters, and it's not proprietary. Most of them use the same backers.

 

As for support, most of the non rail keymod stuff is iwc, which supports the tube styles.

 

 

[n4p226r 105]

So what products mount directly to tube that doesn't get mounted to a picatinny first? I'm not familiar with the tube rails all that much

[Vlad G 345]

I'm with Raz-0 here, it is a device designed to separate people from their money. That isn't to say that it doesn't work, I'm sure it does, but as far as I can tell the only people buying it are people who want something different for the mostly the sake of being different. Perhaphs a bit of the cool factor.

 

You can say is designed for secret squirrel super troops in jumping from stealth helicopter on terrorist masterminds, but this kind of product is made or broke by the civilian market. There isn't enough money in the specops budget to keep multiple companies alive, and the big army is still using stuff from 80s plus all the crummy hand guards KAC can still make.  Sure, the army may have a solicitation, but how many of those do they have every year? How many did they have for new handguns? New rifles?

 

I suspect someone got up one morning and said Uh-oh, we are getting to were we sold all the quad and smooth and top railed we are gonna sell, except for drips and dribbles. We are now on the tail end of a market and it turns out this crap doesn't wear out, you can reuse while wearing out 20 rifles. You also noticed you now have 20-30 competitors all driving down the price and oh yeah, the patents are pretty much in the open. If you are that company, what do you do? You invent a completely new attachment model and convince the civilian market that this is the extra cool sh!t designed only for the very elite who have special needs not met by those handguards everyone at the range has. You too can be a cool at the range if you buy our propitiatory design, be the first at your club to squeeze ooh's and aah's from everyone around. 

 

Seriously name me ONE thing that these do that the Troy modular handguards don't do (or the 12 clones of the Troy hand guards) for a LOT cheaper.

 

Edited to add: oh and solid attachment is a bit of a red herring. If you still buy ARMS mounts then the problem with loose things is not with the rails, and lets face it a $1 bottle of loctite will solve most of your ills.   Its not like lets say Larue mounts are known for falling off or not holding zero, nor are a pile of other quality mounting bits. Sure they cost more, but so do the keymod bits. Plus now you get to have to have two types of mounting bits anyway, one for the upper receiver which no one is changing anytime soon and one for the handguard.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Nothing yet, but I think the next steps from here are gonna be cool.

 

I am a gadget guy/gear queer. I openly admit it and embrace it. I like innovation, I like ingenuity, and am intrigued by clever things. I prefer utility and efficiency. I enjoy trying new things especially when they work as advertised and are an improvement. I like when I can see the thought that went in to something and it makes sense to me, I enjoy watching tech evolve. I don't care so much for different for its own sake, if I did I would have an XCR or a Sig AK/AR abomination (if I thought either of them ran as well). Instead I have a handful of ARs each one with some variation in my quest for what works better for me.

 

Until recently people said the same kinds of things about piston ARs compared to DI ARs as is being said about the Keymod and 1913 rails/tubes in this thread. They offer little to no advantage to a casual shooter, they run reportedly slightly cleaner and cooler over a long period of sustained fire, offer an arguably slight advantage when running a suppressor, they are more expensive, front heavy, complex and use proprietary parts not commonly stocked. They don't really do anything that much better (or better at all) than a DI gun, and the shooting community could easily do without them, and not notice a void. However now they are fairly accepted and widespread.

 

Does that mean I am going to go out and buy Keymod rails for all of my ARs? Nope. Does that mean I am going to go buy 1 Keymod and try it out? Probably not for a little while (I haven't bought a piston gun either). But I will watch it closely as I am eager to see what shakes as more and more people try their hand at it.

 

ETA: F ARMS and F Dick Swann. ARMS has been helping terrorists walk away unscathed since 1998. They suck.

 

I think secure attachment points is far from a red herring. I wasn't talking so much about the mounts themselves (and I do prefer LaRue, ADM, VTAC light mounts and Gear Sector) as the attachment of a 1913 rail to a tube style Handguard. That is two separate parts requiring two separate means of attaching that are stacked on top of each other. To me that seems redundant and unnecessary with twice the chance of failing. and I agree, witness marks and Blue Loctite can go a long way to ensuring that is less likely to happen. Magpul makes great direct attach accessories (MVG, Scout Mount, MOE Sling Attachment Points,) for their MOE hand guards - the Keymod just takes it a step further.

Edited December 22, 2013 by High Exposure

[n4p226r 105]

 

Seriously name me ONE thing that these do that the Troy modular handguards don't do (or the 12 clones of the Troy hand guards) for a LOT cheaper.

 

How would you mount a light to the Troy handguard?

[High Exposure 5,664]

There are a bunch of ways. Personally, I would use this:

 

http://www.unitytactical.com/products/fusion/

[n4p226r 105]

While that would work, it still doesn't attach to the tube rail