Good Entry Level "Off The Shelf" Buy

[checko 180]

me too...we've all done that....lol

Haha I know. Im just trying to save him some time and $

[azmaveth 1]

Colt 6920 for $955, however you'll need to get some compliance work done. Probably cost you another $100 plus the cost of whatever muzzle break you want to throw on there.

 

http://grabagun.com/colt-mfg-co-inc-le6920mpb-car-5-56-16-1-30rd.html?trk_msg=5PFA1B0R42OKV5FRBFBL2KO5D0&trk_contact=C4PS1ITD80JF6JT7BAV74VIV10&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fgrabagun.com%2fcolt-mfg-co-inc-le6920mpb-car-5-56-16-1-30rd.html&utm_campaign=GrabAGun.com+10th+Day+of+Christmas+-+Colt+LE6920+Magpul

[vladtepes 1,060]

there are guys here that know WAY more than me and are way closer to you... I am the guy that can pick the gun up and put it together.. or take it apart... my first Saiga I was cutting apart with an angle grinder before I even knew the names of all the parts.. if you hand it to me I can generally figure it out... if you describe it to me I can normally tell you what to do... but there are guys here that understand the science of the gun far better than me.. 

 

you want to buy a gun because that answer makes sense to you today...

you want all one manufacturer because it makes sense to you today...

 

they are both AWFUL decisions... the reason my guns have parts from 8 million different companies is because they all know how to make certain parts well.. but I have yet to find ONE manufacturer that is capable of getting it all right... so multiple manufacturers is the answer.. the best of every world... 

 

the reason you build is simple.. it will change how you view guns.. how you will view that weapon system.. confidence that is indescribable comes from assembling a gun from parts and firing it the first time... you say to yourself.. holy shit.. I just built a gun... this is nuts.. 

 

you can go to the extreme end.. 

you can go the cheaper end..

 

a build does not have to be some extravagant expense... AND you can actually save money on a build because if you are a little patient you can actually source used parts far cheaper than new...

 

we could certainly discuss this over a beer.. bring some to my local range... and we will have a few and shoot a few...  invitation is always open... 

unfortunately I am like central PA middle of nowhere 5 hours from you... lol

 

from a practical standpoint.. get a new or used lower... they are cheap.. that is the ONLY part you need the FFL for.. 

then find a 14.5in upper with a pinned brake.. or 16 if 14.5 is unavailable.. 14.5 with a pinned brake is nice because you get the function of a brake without the extra length...

I would definitely stick with a mid length gas system..

if you want to save a few bucks get a fixed front sight... my 14in gun has a fixed front sight and you can find a cheap take off fixed sight for the rear... dont worry about an optic.. again it can come later..

for a lower parts kit since you are on a budget just get whatever.. it really doesn't matter.. a good quality trigger will likely come later.. but they can be costly.. 

as far as the stock... you might even be able to pick up a throw away really cheap on this site.. a lot of people get off the shelf guns and when they realize how much they hate the stock they are left with a factory pinned stock which is worthless to most of the world... pistol grip is again the same just get a standard take off one for a build...

 

the harder part is the upper but they can be had assembled.. the rest is simply legos.. 

 

I have not priced a budget build any time recently.. but.. something like.. 

 

lower is like $100

lower parts kit $75

stock buffer tube $25 - $100+

upper $700?

rear sight $25

 

there will be a few other little things I am not thinking of now.. 

again if you look for deals and pick up some used stuff you can save money.. get the gun in your hands working.. run the shit out of it and see what you want to adjust.. 

 

 

my 14in gun has very tight groups at 50... decent groups at 100 (unmagnified red dot).... and is good for center mass hits at 300 yards without issue.. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

I actually recently bought a complete AR15.. but I only bought it because I found someone selling it as a whole cheaper than in parts... 

it was the AR pistol I built my short barrel rifle off of.. just to put it into perspective... the ONLY part that is original to the off the shelf gun I purchased is the upper and barrel.. lol

EVERY OTHER PART IS GONE... I ONLY did this because I knew I was going to reuse the original lower.. 

[gleninjersey 2,141]

there are guys here that know WAY more than me and are way closer to you... I am the guy that can pick the gun up and put it together.. or take it apart... my first Saiga I was cutting apart with an angle grinder before I even knew the names of all the parts.. if you hand it to me I can generally figure it out... if you describe it to me I can normally tell you what to do... but there are guys here that understand the science of the gun far better than me.. 

 

you want to buy a gun because that answer makes sense to you today...

you want all one manufacturer because it makes sense to you today...

 

they are both AWFUL decisions... the reason my guns have parts from 8 million different companies is because they all know how to make certain parts well.. but I have yet to find ONE manufacturer that is capable of getting it all right... so multiple manufacturers is the answer.. the best of every world... 

 

the reason you build is simple.. it will change how you view guns.. how you will view that weapon system.. confidence that is indescribable comes from assembling a gun from parts and firing it the first time... you say to yourself.. holy shit.. I just built a gun... this is nuts.. 

 

you can go to the extreme end.. 

you can go the cheaper end..

 

a build does not have to be some extravagant expense... AND you can actually save money on a build because if you are a little patient you can actually source used parts far cheaper than new...

 

we could certainly discuss this over a beer.. bring some to my local range... and we will have a few and shoot a few...  invitation is always open... 

unfortunately I am like central PA middle of nowhere 5 hours from you... lol

 

from a practical standpoint.. get a new or used lower... they are cheap.. that is the ONLY part you need the FFL for.. 

then find a 14.5in upper with a pinned brake.. or 16 if 14.5 is unavailable.. 14.5 with a pinned brake is nice because you get the function of a brake without the extra length...

I would definitely stick with a mid length gas system..

if you want to save a few bucks get a fixed front sight... my 14in gun has a fixed front sight and you can find a cheap take off fixed sight for the rear... dont worry about an optic.. again it can come later..

for a lower parts kit since you are on a budget just get whatever.. it really doesn't matter.. a good quality trigger will likely come later.. but they can be costly.. 

as far as the stock... you might even be able to pick up a throw away really cheap on this site.. a lot of people get off the shelf guns and when they realize how much they hate the stock they are left with a factory pinned stock which is worthless to most of the world... pistol grip is again the same just get a standard take off one for a build...

 

the harder part is the upper but they can be had assembled.. the rest is simply legos.. 

 

I have not priced a budget build any time recently.. but.. something like.. 

 

lower is like $100

lower parts kit $75

stock buffer tube $25 - $100+

upper $700?

rear sight $25

 

there will be a few other little things I am not thinking of now.. 

again if you look for deals and pick up some used stuff you can save money.. get the gun in your hands working.. run the shit out of it and see what you want to adjust.. 

 

 

my 14in gun has very tight groups at 50... decent groups at 100 (unmagnified red dot).... and is good for center mass hits at 300 yards without issue.. 

 

Holy horse puckies....I thought you were like 1.5 or so away.  Isn't that call "Ohio"??  Okay, I'll thank you now for you advice and the beer will have to wait until I find a reason to be out there (one of my friends moved to Ephrata, PA and we go to their annual 4th July party...maybe then). 

 

I'll consider what you've said.  Saving money is always good and learing while doing so is an exceptional bonus. 

 

I just watched a Youtube video were what sounded like a teenager built a lower in about 20 minutes......So I may still consider a build. 

 

If I do build, what sites should I looke at for purchasing kits?  Obviously Palmetto State Armory (PSA), but they seem to be out of just about everything right now.  Where else?

[checko 180]

PSA, bcm, joe bobs, don't forget about Midwest PX our site sponsor.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Holy horse puckies....I thought you were like 1.5 or so away.  Isn't that call "Ohio"??  Okay, I'll thank you now for you advice and the beer will have to wait until I find a reason to be out there (one of my friends moved to Ephrata, PA and we go to their annual 4th July party...maybe then). 

 

I'll consider what you've said.  Saving money is always good and learing while doing so is an exceptional bonus. 

 

I just watched a Youtube video were what sounded like a teenager built a lower in about 20 minutes......So I may still consider a build. 

 

If I do build, what sites should I looke at for purchasing kits?  Obviously Palmetto State Armory (PSA), but they seem to be out of just about everything right now.  Where else?

 

 

the other day I had the barrel nut and barrel apart in my hand... I had no idea wtf I was doing.. when I was done taking it apart I read about all these special tools I needed to put it back together...

I am not even going to tell you how I got it to work.. LOL

 

that is what we are telling you.. building an AR.. NOT hard.. 

 

 

PSA 

white oak

primary arms

spikes

 

there are tons of places to get this stuff.. lol

[vladtepes 1,060]

for used stuff equipment exchange on AR15.com...

 

just ask us before you buy.. we wont screw you up... I also think j0n might have an upper for sale.. 

[checko 180]

for used stuff equipment exchange on AR15.com...

 

just ask us before you buy.. we wont screw you up... I also think j0n might have an upper for sale..

This as well. Ive found a toooooon of stuff from handguns to plate carriers to stocks optics to chemlights on the EE. check feedback and do your research and there are great deals to be had.

[Scorpio64 5,154]

In my opinion, Windham is a very good value.  Well, it's not actually my opinion, it's the opinions of all the people that bought a Windham and gave it a great review.  When I was considering buying instead of building I was going to go with Windham based on the overwhelmingly positive feedback from owners.   The Ruger AR is very nice too but a little out of the price range you specified.  Not as customizable either.  But still, a very nice rifle indeed.

[sof 0]

Okay so I might take a beating here but...

Building a lower isn't the slightest bit difficult.  Knowing you, I am 100% sure you could do it in less than an hour (less than half an hour after the first one). Once you have changed a trigger and a stock or buffer, you have essentially built a lower and, as others have said in numerous threads here, they are about all that the lower contributes to the 'feel' of the gun. Piece of cake.

The upper is where you get a lot of the nuance of different ARs. Barrel length, weight, type compensator (really good you tube comparos on this), gas system length, rails, receiver, sights, etc. etc. etc., all make a difference in what the gun does. But if everything is mil spec they all go together.

You should buy one of Vlads or Chekos or several others old guns, I will make the sacrifice of helping you shoot the hell out of it, and then once you really know what you want, the guys can help you spend the money on a really trick, custom, Glen-worthy upper build. Heck, I might even help you shoot the hell out of it too! :-)

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Okay so I might take a beating here but...

Building a lower isn't the slightest bit difficult.  Knowing you, I am 100% sure you could do it in less than an hour (less than half an hour after the first one). Once you have changed a trigger and a stock or buffer, you have essentially built a lower and, as others have said in numerous threads here, they are about all that the lower contributes to the 'feel' of the gun. Piece of cake.

The upper is where you get a lot of the nuance of different ARs. Barrel length, weight, type compensator (really good you tube comparos on this), gas system length, rails, receiver, sights, etc. etc. etc., all make a difference in what the gun does. But if everything is mil spec they all go together.

You should buy one of Vlads or Chekos or several others old guns, I will make the sacrifice of helping you shoot the hell out of it, and then once you really know what you want, the guys can help you spend the money on a really trick, custom, Glen-worthy upper build. Heck, I might even help you shoot the hell out of it too! :-)

 

I have a better idea.  How about we both build our own together.  Slowly over the next few months, during this cold, nasty, windy time of the year we'll hunker down and get them built by spring.  I like the idea of NOT plunking down a huge sum of money all at once but rather slowly spending and building.  Let me know what ya' think?

 

When done you'll be more than welcom to help me shoot the heck out of it!

[vladtepes 1,060]

Take your time and do it slowly you can look for the best deals.... Just get the lower out of the way upfront so that you own the serialized part of the gun... Everything else can just get shipped to you....

[RUTGERS95 890]

go to youtube and watch it first, laying out the parts in sequence as they do it.  Then install watching the video.  You will be surprised how easy it is

[brocglock23 4]

I have a better idea. How about we both build our own together. Slowly over the next few months, during this cold, nasty, windy time of the year we'll hunker down and get them built by spring. I like the idea of NOT plunking down a huge sum of money all at once but rather slowly spending and building. Let me know what ya' think?

 

When done you'll be more than welcom to help me shoot the heck out of it!

I'll tell you a quick story regardless of what you do. I went to pk90 and bought a lower and a parts kit. Asked a few questions and didn't buy anything else because I thought, oh this will take a few weeks and then I'll come back and buy a few more parts. Later that night after an hour I'm saying to myself, f&%k!! Now I'm bored with nothing to do.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[HavocMan 13]

Of it were me in would spend a little more than $1k and get a BCM. For under $1k I would look at the S&W M&P line.

 

 

Absolutely correct.

 

You guys talking about Windham ... you realize this is the same outfit that used to build Bushmaster guns, right? Did they change anything besides the rollmark on the mag well?

[Damjan 73]

Absolutely correct.

 

You guys talking about Windham ... you realize this is the same outfit that used to build Bushmaster guns, right? Did they change anything besides the rollmark on the mag well?

Yes, its the former original Bushmaster,

But i am impressed with the finish on the new Wyndhams. They do have a lifetime transferable warranty as well.

 

What is your suggestion for an out of the box AR ? BCM? Daniel? I realize my question may not be answered straight forward.

[HavocMan 13]

Yes, its the former original Bushmaster,

But i am impressed with the finish on the new Wyndhams. They do have a lifetime transferable warranty as well.

 

What is your suggestion for an out of the box AR ? BCM? Daniel? I realize my question may not be answered straight forward.

 

As board member High Exposure mentioned, and as I agreed in post #46, I'd go with either a BCM midlength or a S&W M&P.

 

I own 1 complete BCM gun and 1 BCM upper/Spikes lower hybrid gun. I'm also working on a second BCM/Spikes hybrid now. I'm waiting on a KeyMod upper for that gun. I also have one Bushmaster.

 

I bought my Bushmaster first - from Navy Arms! - years ago, before I had a clue. Now, nearly every part on that gun has been replaced. The only Bushmaster parts still on that gun are the upper and lower forgings and the ejection port cover. Nearly everything hanging on them has been replaced, many because the original Bushy parts failed or were simply not up to specification.

 

The bolt was replaced because it cracked at the cam pin hole, a common Bushy failure.

 

The gas key bolts were not staked. They eventually worked loose. Another common problem with Bushy guns. I re-torqued them and staked them myself, but that carrier is now just a spare.

 

The 1/9 barrel was replaced with a 1/7 barrel.

 

The fire control group was replaced when the disconnector broke.

 

The spring that keeps tension on the bolt catch broke somehow, allowing the catch to just flop around.

 

The receiver extension, buffer and spring were all replaced with mil spec parts from BCM.

 

In fact, all of the replacement parts came from BCM. Sooooo, the Bushy now runs as well as my BCM guns, lol....

 

 

 

I'll never buy another Bushy ... or a Windham. Fit and finish? Reliability is more important, especially for a SHTF/first AR like the OP is looking for.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

M&p-15 orc

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Assembling a lower looks to be crazy easy.  I'll probably be rewatching this video in the near future.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcko0UlvQxQ

[Damjan 73]

Assembling a lower looks to be crazy easy.  I'll probably be rewatching this video in the near future.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcko0UlvQxQ

 

I used this exact video for assembling my lower.

[HavocMan 13]

Assembling a lower looks to be crazy easy.

 

 

It is pretty straight forward. There are three tricky/important steps...

 

1) The bolt catch roll pin

 

2) The trigger guard roll pin

 

3) Staking the receiver extension's castle nut if you choose to go with a collapsible stock (pinned for NJ compliance).

[High Exposure 5,664]

As board member High Exposure mentioned, and as I agreed in post #46, I'd go with either a BCM midlength or a S&W M&P.

 

I own 1 complete BCM gun and 1 BCM upper/Spikes lower hybrid gun. I'm also working on a second BCM/Spikes hybrid now. I'm waiting on a KeyMod upper for that gun. I also have one Bushmaster.

 

I bought my Bushmaster first - from Navy Arms! - years ago, before I had a clue. Now, nearly every part on that gun has been replaced. The only Bushmaster parts still on that gun are the upper and lower forgings and the ejection port cover. Nearly everything hanging on them has been replaced, many because the original Bushy parts failed or were simply not up to specification.

 

The bolt was replaced because it cracked at the cam pin hole, a common Bushy failure.

 

The gas key bolts were not staked. They eventually worked loose. Another common problem with Bushy guns. I re-torqued them and staked them myself, but that carrier is now just a spare.

 

The 1/9 barrel was replaced with a 1/7 barrel.

 

The fire control group was replaced when the disconnector broke.

 

The spring that keeps tension on the bolt catch broke somehow, allowing the catch to just flop around.

 

The receiver extension, buffer and spring were all replaced with mil spec parts from BCM.

 

In fact, all of the replacement parts came from BCM. Sooooo, the Bushy now runs as well as my BCM guns, lol....

 

 

 

I'll never buy another Bushy ... or a Windham. Fit and finish? Reliability is more important, especially for a SHTF/first AR like the OP is looking for.

This mirrors my experience exactly. The first AR I bought was a Bushamster XM-15. I had to replace every part of that gun to get it to the point where I trust it enough. The only parts that are original are the upper and lower receivers. It cost me more to bring that rifle to standard than it cost new.

 

Fit and finish mean jack and sh!t, in the big scheme of things. That phrase is akin to telling a bud you are setting up on a blind date that "she has a great personality". You want a rifle that will run and will last, look for guns that are built to the TDP or exceed them. BCM, LMT, Colt, Noveske, Daniel Defense, these are names you can trust. S&W is the only carbine that I would consider that isn't truly built to mil-spec. Be an informed consumer so you aren't disappointed.

 

If only I knew then what I know now or had a place like this to learn before buying...

[vladtepes 1,060]

pick up that lower yet?

[RUTGERS95 890]

As board member High Exposure mentioned, and as I agreed in post #46, I'd go with either a BCM midlength or a S&W M&P.

 

I own 1 complete BCM gun and 1 BCM upper/Spikes lower hybrid gun. I'm also working on a second BCM/Spikes hybrid now. I'm waiting on a KeyMod upper for that gun. I also have one Bushmaster.

 

I bought my Bushmaster first - from Navy Arms! - years ago, before I had a clue. Now, nearly every part on that gun has been replaced. The only Bushmaster parts still on that gun are the upper and lower forgings and the ejection port cover. Nearly everything hanging on them has been replaced, many because the original Bushy parts failed or were simply not up to specification.

 

The bolt was replaced because it cracked at the cam pin hole, a common Bushy failure.

 

The gas key bolts were not staked. They eventually worked loose. Another common problem with Bushy guns. I re-torqued them and staked them myself, but that carrier is now just a spare.

 

The 1/9 barrel was replaced with a 1/7 barrel.

 

The fire control group was replaced when the disconnector broke.

 

The spring that keeps tension on the bolt catch broke somehow, allowing the catch to just flop around.

 

The receiver extension, buffer and spring were all replaced with mil spec parts from BCM.

 

In fact, all of the replacement parts came from BCM. Sooooo, the Bushy now runs as well as my BCM guns, lol....

 

 

 

I'll never buy another Bushy ... or a Windham. Fit and finish? Reliability is more important, especially for a SHTF/first AR like the OP is looking for.

older bushmasters are ok, I'd of just bought another gun with what you spent to replace all these parts

 

also, the 1/9 isn't bad at all unless you plan on using alot of higher grain bullets.  You'll probably mostly use 55 or 62gr so that does't make a whole lot of sense to me besides, those older bushy barrels are plenty accurate

 

no excuse for the gas keys though.....

[RUTGERS95 890]

do agree with high exposure however, good solid advice but I'm a colt hater so I'd replace that with quality hybrid....lol

[gleninjersey 2,141]

I used this exact video for assembling my lower.

 

Great minds think alike!

 

pick up that lower yet?

 

Not yet.  Been sick the entire weekend.  What do you recommend?  From the reading I've done it seems like there are only truely a handful of original manufactures.  Several companies buy from them and then "brand" them as their own.  If this is true then it really shouldn't matter all that much which one I go with as long as it is "mil spec" so all the holes line up with the other "mil spec" pieces.  Anyone haveing any good sales right now?  Can I pic one up locally somewhere in Central Jersey area (near Bridgewater...but willing to travel a little)?  Finded a "blem" one would be great.

 

How about either of these?  Aero-Precision & Spikes Tactial.

 

https://www.primaryarms.com/Aero-Precision-Stripped-AR-15-Lower-Receiver-For-p/ap501102.htm

 

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=f1stsl

[checko 180]

Call Lou's. Maybe Monmouth Arms

[ogfarmer 138]

I think Efingers had some stripped lowers, don't know their price or anything else about them, just saw them in the case about a week ago.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Call Lou's. Maybe Monmouth Arms

 

 

I think Efingers had some Spikes stripped lowers, don't know their price or anything else about them, just saw them in the case about a week ago.

 

Cool.  I'll try giving them a call tomorrow.  I've dealt with Monmouth Arms before (did my CZ transfer) and Effingers is like 10 minutes from my front door (and they are open until 9pm!).

 

Thanks guys.