MSAR XM-17 E-4 or IWI Tavor?

[notmetoo 41]

Like the title says. Prices being the same, which do you prefer and why?

Both are bullpups that use AR mags and both seem to be sweet, sweet rifles.

Thanks!

[Blake 50]

I have a Tavor and really like it, but I have no experience with the msar e-4.  I will say that I have seen the e-4's sell used around $1400 so if you are willing to go used you could save some $$ there.  

 

Voted Tavor bc it's what I have and I have no complaints.  

[Blake 50]

I know several members have/had e-4's so hopefully one or more of them will chime in.  

[david8613 69]

Is that an aug clone? Why not just get an aug? I'm a new tavor owner myself, I haven't shot it yet but I can tell you the fit and finish is really nice...handles nice to boot!

[Blake 50]

Is that an aug clone? Why not just get an aug? I'm a new tavor owner myself, I haven't shot it yet but I can tell you the fit and finish is really nice...handles nice to boot!

Google the trigger fix and you will like it even more. Takes 5 min, costs nothing, and reduces the trigger pull by half without sacrificing anything.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Augs are banned by name in jersey

[petros600 12]

Steyer made the USR , a naked AUG. I believe 2000 units got import during the Clinton era

Augs are banned by name in jersey

[UAT 3]

Google the trigger fix and you will like it even more. Takes 5 min, costs nothing, and reduces the trigger pull by half without sacrificing anything.

That trigger fix you are talking about wouldn't be the return spring removal would it? If so I wouldn't do it. People have had to actually start pushing the trigger forward with their finger on some occasions and it also voids the warranty. The better bet is to wait for one of the new trigger packs to come out in the next month or so.

[Blake 50]

That trigger fix you are talking about wouldn't be the return spring removal would it? If so I wouldn't do it. People have had to actually start pushing the trigger forward with their finger on some occasions and it also voids the warranty. The better bet is to wait for one of the new trigger packs to come out in the next month or so.

 

Yes, it is what I am referring to.  There have been no reports of IWI refusing warranty service for the missing spring, and if you did have to return it for warranty service, simply put the spring back in.  They have said that there are no adverse affects to the rifle, except for possible reset issues if the rifle is very dirty (I believe this is what you are referencing).  I haven't had any issues with it yet, but we will see what happens in the future.  

 

Still waiting on reports of the Timney trigger thats supposed to be coming out for it.

[Shane45 807]

Neither, I'll wait for the Desert Tech that has the damn mag release in the right place!

 

I had no issues with the spring removed. If someone is I would highly suspect they did something else to it!

[The_Matrix 105]

The Desert Tech looks pretty cool.  It looks more refined.

 

The Tavor looks bulky.  I have held the Tavor and its quite comfortable and well balanced.  But, I'll just not into the look.

 

I have held a MSAR, it looks sweet, but I do not find it comfortable to hold.

[david8613 69]

Yes, it is what I am referring to.  There have been no reports of IWI refusing warranty service for the missing spring, and if you did have to return it for warranty service, simply put the spring back in.  They have said that there are no adverse affects to the rifle, except for possible reset issues if the rifle is very dirty (I believe this is what you are referencing).  I haven't had any issues with it yet, but we will see what happens in the future.  

 

Still waiting on reports of the Timney trigger thats supposed to be coming out for it.

I have heard and seen that mod, looks very easy to do, I heard the same thing about reset issues when dirty, I think that's what that return spring is for.. I might try it after I shoot it in stock form to feel the difference. Desert tech looks like a nice one too, lots bull pups coming, it would be nice if iwi could bring the x95 with a longer barrel to make it compliant.

[Blake 50]

I have heard and seen that mod, looks very easy to do, I heard the same thing about reset issues when dirty, I think that's what that return spring is for.. I might try it after I shoot it in stock form to feel the difference. Desert tech looks like a nice one too, lots bull pups coming, it would be nice if iwi could bring the x95 with a longer barrel to make it compliant.

Very easy to do, dropped the pull by almost half. I have about 400rds of both quality and crap ammo through it without cleaning since with no issues.

[Rob0115 1,105]

I have both and tavor all the way.

[notmetoo 41]

Thanks for all the advice! I understand IWI is planning on making green Tavors as well as ban-state compliant models. 

[pjd832 146]

Thanks for all the advice! I understand IWI is planning on making green Tavors as well as ban-state compliant models.

 

The only compliance work needed is change the muzzle device and mag.......most people change the "compliant model" a2 style device

anyway and it will no doubt have a 10 rnd mag...again most opt for our max 15 rnd mags...so if it were me I wouldn't buy/wait for a compliant model to end up changing out the parts anyway....od on the other hand if you like colored and are willing to wait/pay more than a readily available black that's a different story ...

[notmetoo 41]

I found the article about the compliant Tavors: http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/new-iwi-us-ban-compliant-od-green-tavors-9mm-conversion-kits-accessory-line/

"

• "The TSB18RS is offered for residents of Massachusetts and New Jersey. It utilizes an 18-inch barrel with a non-removable two-inch muzzle brake, yielding an overall length of 30 inches. It is also supplied with a 10-round magazine."

For me, the mags are not an issue, I have a bunch of 15s, so one 10-rounder won't hurt. As long as dealers don't jack it up beyond the +$50 IWI is charging for compliancy (ha ha), it's worth it. Can't get a decent brake and have it installed for $50, and I don't have the tools/expertise to do it myself.

[njpilot 671]

I found the article about the compliant Tavors: http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/new-iwi-us-ban-compliant-od-green-tavors-9mm-conversion-kits-accessory-line/

"

 

• "The TSB18RS is offered for residents of Massachusetts and New Jersey. It utilizes an 18-inch barrel with a non-removable two-inch muzzle brake, yielding an overall length of 30 inches. It is also supplied with a 10-round magazine."

For me, the mags are not an issue, I have a bunch of 15s, so one 10-rounder won't hurt. As long as dealers don't jack it up beyond the +$50 IWI is charging for compliancy (ha ha), it's worth it. Can't get a decent brake and have it installed for $50, and I don't have the tools/expertise to do it myself.

Now you're Tavor is 30" long overall instead of 26 1/4". Why bother getting a bullpup that you just made almost 4" longer. Also, I saw the compliant Tavors at SHOT Show and they were pretty ugly. Do you know how well the compliant model brake will perform? Will it tame muzzle rise? Felt recoil?

 

Wouldn't you rather have the choice of what brake you want instead of them choosing for you?

[notmetoo 41]

Now you're Tavor is 30" long overall instead of 26 1/4". Why bother getting a bullpup that you just made almost 4" longer. Also, I saw the compliant Tavors at SHOT Show and they were pretty ugly. Do you know how well the compliant model brake will perform? Will it tame muzzle rise? Felt recoil?

 

Wouldn't you rather have the choice of what brake you want instead of them choosing for you?

Yup, valid points. I wanted the 16" anyway, so...

[njpilot 671]

Yup, valid points. I wanted the 16" anyway, so...

Good choice Andy!

[Displaced Texan 11,731]

I have no need for another 5.56 rifle, but if I were in the market, I'd rather have the MSAR.

The Tavor doesn't appeal to me at all.

[david8613 69]

I have a tavor and want another...

[Golf battery 1,223]

I got the tavor with mepro sight about a month ago. Trigger was bad. I did the spring removal. Easy. Take out trigger group. Its two push pins and it comes right out. Push the one pin through about half inch and take out spring. Push the pin back in and reinstall in weapon. Still the pull is bad. But i got it sighted in. Co witness and hit four out of five shots touching at 50 yds. Its a cqb rifle. So thats all you need. I like it. Its fun and people look at you like what the hell is that thing. I put a troy claymore linear comp on it because i was worried being how close i was to the muzzle blast. No problems or complaints from people next to me. Only thing that is odd is when you send the bolt home for first round. The lever for it is awkward. You have to pull down on it or activate it with the charging handle.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

I'm debating the Timney or Geissele tavor triggers. It's a lot of coin but could make the rifle a real sweet shooter