Update on Right to Carry appeals case, Almeida Vs. Sussex Co.

[Newtonian 453]

Well, I'll admit I'm too lazy to do the research, but I'm more than willing to take your word for it.  

 

By no means am I disagreeing.  I'm merely pointing out (as you may have already done), than any efforts we make only need to be focused on specific areas, not spread out across the entire state.  As you explain, there are somewhere around 21-23 races in play, not the entire 120 that comprise our state legislature.

 

Put that way, it certainly sounds attainable.

The rarest of charitable acts on gun forums: Thanks for agreeing.

 

I've presented the numbers over and over and over and over again. The phonies and fakers on these boards claim they're doing something by going through the courts. Really, truly, they're doing nothing. They're just sitting back and watching others go through the torture that is the US/NJ legal system. They're wishin' and hopin' for a fukcen miracle, instead of going out and actually doing something. 

 

I have laid out the plan for re-gaining the legislature. All I get back from you guys is "we have to..." and "we are..." 

 

WTF are you doing? WTF are you doing? NOTHING. You're pretenders, waiting for somebody else to bankrupt himself, to make himself into a perpetual target by NJ cops. Then you can post and post and post -- hee hee it's free, isn't it? And it doesn't require getting off your big fat ass. You can tell everyone how "YOU" are waiting, and working, towards a judicial remedy when really, all you're doing is sitting here and posting and doing nothing.

[brucin 923]

Correct. As long as you change back, I believe, 55 days before the election.

 

A member her is working on posting detailed info on this for those interested in becoming "Unaffiliated" for primary voting.

 

I'm "Unaffiliated" because I can't support either of these parties. The primary voting choice is a by product of that decision for me.

I was told at the poles that I had to join a party in order to vote in the primary. I wanted to vote in the primary for the Denville mayor election but I did not want to join a party. Since no Democrat runs in denville the real election is the primary. I could not vote. I could at a later date go to the county clerk and change my affiliation but that is BS in my opinion. I should not have to join anything in order to exercise my rights.

 

 I will never join either party as neither represent my beliefs so with the current system I will never be able to vote for my local officials.

[njpilot 671]

I would go to the county clerk. You do not have to be registered to a particular party to vote in a primary in this state. They are lying to you.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

In a primary election the volunteer will simply ask you which party you would like to vote for.

 

Which can be funny if you're in line behind an angry old dude who thinks he's not being allowed to vote until he tells the volunteer his political affiliation.

 

If the election volunteer did not let you vote in the primary as an unaffiliated voter that is illegal and you should take action immediately.

 

However, if you were registered as a Democrat (or other party?) then they would not be able to setup the machine for you to vote in the Republican primaries.  Are you sure you are registered as unaffiliated?

[Pythagoras 2]

I was told at the poles that I had to join a party in order to vote in the primary. I wanted to vote in the primary for the Denville mayor election but I did not want to join a party. Since no Democrat runs in denville the real election is the primary. I could not vote. I could at a later date go to the county clerk and change my affiliation but that is BS in my opinion. I should not have to join anything in order to exercise my rights.

 

 I will never join either party as neither represent my beliefs so with the current system I will never be able to vote for my local officials.

 

 

 

I understand where you're coming from, and I agree with you 100%. However, the gentlemen below are correct:

 

 

You do not have to be registered to a particular party to vote in a primary in this state.

 

 

 

 

 

In a primary election the volunteer will simply ask you which party you would like to vote for.

 

 

However, if you were registered as a Democrat (or other party?) then they would not be able to setup the machine for you to vote in the Republican primaries.  Are you sure you are registered as unaffiliated?

 

 

 

Double check that you are Unaffiliated because "Independent" and "Unaffiliated" are not the same thing according to the glorious state of NJ. If you are "Independent" you cannot vote in the Republican or Democrat primaries. If you are "Unaffiliated" you can vote in either one, but doing so will cause the County to automatically register you as a member of that party "for your convenience." However, you can immediately de-register again by filling out this form and mailing it to your county's Commissioner of Registration/Superintendent of Elections at the correct address for your county.

 

Just mail the form a day or two after the election and you'll never even have time to enter "the system" so your non-party principles will remain unmolested.

[brucin 923]

 

 

 

I understand where you're coming from, and I agree with you 100%. However, the gentlemen below are correct:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Double check that you are Unaffiliated because "Independent" and "Unaffiliated" are not the same thing according to the glorious state of NJ. If you are "Independent" you cannot vote in the Republican or Democrat primaries. If you are "Unaffiliated" you can vote in either one, but doing so will cause the County to automatically register you as a member of that party "for your convenience." However, you can immediately de-register again by filling out this form and mailing it to your county's Commissioner of Registration/Superintendent of Elections at the correct address for your county.

 

Just mail the form a day or two after the election and you'll never even have time to enter "the system" so your non-party principles will remain unmolested.

That's the problem I do not want to fill out any extra BS forms just to vote. I shouldn't have to.

[Pythagoras 2]

That's the problem I do not want to fill out any extra BS forms just to vote. I shouldn't have to.

In principle, agree with you. But political parties are private organizations so you have to play by their private rules. Primary Elections are traditionally only open to party members, but this let's you "game" the system. Your paperwork-free "civil right to vote" is what the General Election is for.

 

Think about this way: You're not filling out an extra form to vote. You're filling out an extra form to pit the two-party system against itself.

 

 

(If you refuse to do something as simple as this, then what ARE you willing to do?)

 

 

ETA: Apologies to OP and the forum at large for thread drift

[Fred2 367]

In principle, agree with you. But political parties are private organizations so you have to play by their private rules. Primary Elections are traditionally only open to party members, but this let's you "game" the system. Your paperwork-free "civil right to vote" is what the General Election is for.

 

Think about this way: You're not filling out an extra form to vote. You're filling out an extra form to pit the two-party system against itself.

 

 

(If you refuse to do something as simple as this, then what ARE you willing to do?)

 

 

ETA: Apologies to OP and the forum at large for thread drift

+1

 

It is an excellent opportunity to vote for the biggest loser in the D primary.

 

It would also be a great way for us to infiltrate the party with a Pro-2 candidate if we could get our shit together.

[chris327 30]

+1

 

It is an excellent opportunity to vote for the biggest loser in the D primary.

 

It would also be a great way for us to infiltrate the party with a Pro-2 candidate if we could get our shit together.

bingo,

 we need to get a pro 2a democratic candidate in some of these districts. Some are democratic powerhouses and republicans have no chance. If we get a pro 2a democrat we made a difference there.  republicans wont win some of these districts, look at districts 28, 29, 31-35. Its not likely going to happen there when 70% of the vote is democratic in some districts.

[Newtonian 453]

bingo,

 we need to get a pro 2a democratic candidate in some of these districts. Some are democratic powerhouses and republicans have no chance. If we get a pro 2a democrat we made a difference there.  republicans wont win some of these districts, look at districts 28, 29, 31-35. Its not likely going to happen there when 70% of the vote is democratic in some districts.

Challenging a sitting legislator in a primary is more difficult in many circumstances than winning the election outright. Even if you succeed, the minute they are sworn in they will be under enormous pressure to vote along the party line. 

 

Who other than van Drew is a pro-2A democrat? Anyone know?

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Challenging a sitting legislator in a primary is more difficult in many circumstances than winning the election outright. Even if you succeed, the minute they are sworn in they will be under enormous pressure to vote along the party line. 

 

Who other than van Drew is a pro-2A democrat? Anyone know?

 

They don't call them "whips" for nothing...

[ryan_j 0]

 

Who other than van Drew is a pro-2A democrat? Anyone know?

 

Bob Andrzejczak and Nelson Albano before he lost reelection due to the trooper scandal. 

[ryan_j 0]

Also I guess Burzichelli and Riley since they voted against the 10 round bill. 

[chris327 30]

thank you ryan for the proof. See thats what we need in some of these districts pro 2a democrats.

[Newtonian 453]

thank you ryan for the proof. See thats what we need in some of these districts pro 2a democrats.

I ask this politely, gingerly, at risk of a third black mark and eternal damnation: WTF is a pro-2A democrat? 

 

I know you'd know that I'd tell you, whether you wanted to hear it or not.

 

Here's the definition: In New Jersey, it's a person who will be challenged every two years in the primaries, until enough voters realize that the incumbent is in favor of killing innocents in playgrounds, sacred blood spurting everywhere; someone who will face primary battles election cycle after election cycle. Eventually, a loser.

 

Mr. van Drew, are you reading this? Almost certainly not.

 

We have the numbers to change the face of NJ politics, but you guys won't listen. You keep making excuses. The statistics are on our side but instead you waste your time emailing people whose minds you can't change. 

 

Do you really think our governor was sincere in his remarkably well thought-out -- "The lady doth object too much" -- objections to the 15-round mag ban? 

 

Delusion!

 

You know why he did it, and I know why. Approximately 12 minutes after he comes in 17th in the second Republican primary in 2016, he will join Michael Bloomberg's Mothers of F*****g M*****F******* Delusion Against Gun Violence and make a tidy little living lecturing on how he opposed firearm proliferation through his entire professional life. "Both as a prosecutor and as governor, I took measures..."

 

Maybe we'll even see him shed a triglyceride-laden tear or two over his "misdirected" veto of the mag limit bill. 

 

"I was misguided, I did not have the statistics...my assistants were tea-baggers. The same people who closed the GWB. Dang!"

 

You guys wanted to consecrate him as a man-god for his veto. A more manly act -- he knows 10 rounds will pass several minutes after he leaves office -- would have been to let his attorney general join the Drake suit.

 

Wait. Just wait.

 

And the band played on. 

[DeerSlayer 241]

Sweeney claimed to be a "pro 2A/pro sportsman democrat" also. Look what happened there, sorry I definitely don't trust any of them. Unless they are standing besides me at the range on a weekly basis punching holes in paper too. Or posting pictures of their most recent AR build on here. That democrat would have my vote. I wouldnt mind owning a pet unicorn either.

[ryan_j 0]

I'm skeptical of pro 2A democrats, but Democrats in NJ outnumber Republicans. Gun rights needs to be a bipartisan issue for it to survive in NJ. 

[chris327 30]

I ask this politely, gingerly, at risk of a third black mark and eternal damnation: WTF is a pro-2A democrat?

 

I know you'd know that I'd tell you, whether you wanted to hear it or not.

 

Here's the definition: In New Jersey, it's a person who will be challenged every two years in the primaries, until enough voters realize that the incumbent is in favor of killing innocents in playgrounds, sacred blood spurting everywhere; someone who will face primary battles election cycle after election cycle. Eventually, a loser.

 

Mr. van Drew, are you reading this? Almost certainly not.

 

We have the numbers to change the face of NJ politics, but you guys won't listen. You keep making excuses. The statistics are on our side but instead you waste your time emailing people whose minds you can't change.

 

Do you really think our governor was sincere in his remarkably well thought-out -- "The lady doth object too much" -- objections to the 15-round mag ban?

 

Delusion!

 

You know why he did it, and I know why. Approximately 12 minutes after he comes in 17th in the second Republican primary in 2016, he will join Michael Bloomberg's Mothers of F*****g M*****F******* Delusion Against Gun Violence and make a tidy little living lecturing on how he opposed firearm proliferation through his entire professional life. "Both as a prosecutor and as governor, I took measures..."

 

Maybe we'll even see him shed a triglyceride-laden tear or two over his "misdirected" veto of the mag limit bill.

 

"I was misguided, I did not have the statistics...my assistants were tea-baggers. The same people who closed the GWB. Dang!"

 

You guys wanted to consecrate him as a man-god for his veto. A more manly act -- he knows 10 rounds will pass several minutes after he leaves office -- would have been to let his attorney general join the Drake suit.

 

Wait. Just wait.

 

And the band played on.

Can you please list which districts republicans can win because of the gun owner vote?

[maintenanceguy 510]

Senator Van Drew is a in a unique situation.  His district is largely rural and even the urban parts are filled with hunters and gun owners.  Those that don't own guns aren't scrared of them because they know so many people who do.   Deep South Jersey is a different State.

 

I've met with Senator VanDrew a few times in other official business and he is genuinely an upstanding guy who cares about the community.  He's a little left of my ideas but he's not a big government progressive.   In fact, for NJ, he'd make a pretty good republican.  But republicans can't win here, too many government employees, union members, and welfare recipients who blindly vote party line.

[Newtonian 453]

Can you please list which districts republicans can win because of the gun owner vote?

I've pointed this out numerous times. Go to the 2013 NJ legislative election pages and go through the list. At least a dozen races were competitive. A couple were lost by only a few hundred votes. Voter participation = 16%. I conservatively estimated, based on the widely held belief that 1 million gun owners live in NJ, that a few hundred thousand friendly votes were not cast. My figures incorporated VERY generous allowances for the 1 million being significantly exaggerated, party affiliation not being automatic, significant others voting similarly, and living in districts where it doesn't matter (overwhelmingly D or R). Nobody has refuted my figures. By the same token nobody seems to be interested. Most people, and the leading NJ 2nd Amendment organizations, seem to think that emailing Loretta Weinberg is more productive. That strategy has worked so well, don't you think?

[chris327 30]

As i have stated show me which 9 seats you claim were close enough races that can be flipped by gun owner vote. Ive looked at the results numerous times. I dont see enough races that can be flipped by gun owner votes. also considering republicans won a few seats barely and could be lost at the same time. As ryan stated we need to make it a bi partisan issue. none of us really want a pro 2 a democrat. but if that can get the job done we may have to start there.

[Princetonian58 53]

As i have stated show me which 9 seats you claim were close enough races that can be flipped by gun owner vote. Ive looked at the results numerous times. I dont see enough races that can be flipped by gun owner votes. also considering republicans won a few seats barely and could be lost at the same time. As ryan stated we need to make it a bi partisan issue. none of us really want a pro 2 a democrat. but if that can get the job done we may have to start there.

I don't know about 9, but one big piece of low hanging fruit is Linda Greenstein.  She beat Pete Inverso, who is clearly pro 2A, by a narrow margin last November.  Inverso is a son of Hamilton yet Greenstein won by carrying the Hamilton vote, no doubt to the union vote working in lockstep in her favor. 

 

However, she just lost decisvely in her attempt to step up to Rush Holt's congressional seat in the Democratic primary in June.  She was captured on tape ranting and raving about the lack of support she received from most Mercer towns, declaring them to be her enemy.  She is weakened politically right now and vulnerable.  She's also  an outspoken gun grabber and was part of the "Confiscate, confiscate, confiscate" conversation with Weinberg that was recorded and made public.  Knocking her out would send a big message.  If the gun owning union voters would oppose her and vote against her in her district, she would be beaten IMHO.

[Pythagoras 2]

I'm skeptical of pro 2A democrats, but Democrats in NJ outnumber Republicans. Gun rights needs to be a bipartisan issue for it to survive in NJ. 

 

This x 1000

[ryan_j 0]

Update: judge conforti hasn't issued the order yet, and Nappen can't appeal without it. Why the delay?

[chris327 30]

I don't know about 9, but one big piece of low hanging fruit is Linda Greenstein.  She beat Pete Inverso, who is clearly pro 2A, by a narrow margin last November.  Inverso is a son of Hamilton yet Greenstein won by carrying the Hamilton vote, no doubt to the union vote working in lockstep in her favor. 

 

However, she just lost decisvely in her attempt to step up to Rush Holt's congressional seat in the Democratic primary in June.  She was captured on tape ranting and raving about the lack of support she received from most Mercer towns, declaring them to be her enemy.  She is weakened politically right now and vulnerable.  She's also  an outspoken gun grabber and was part of the "Confiscate, confiscate, confiscate" conversation with Weinberg that was recorded and made public.  Knocking her out would send a big message.  If the gun owning union voters would oppose her and vote against her in her district, she would be beaten IMHO.

yes there's definitely a few we can easily swing. But we need 9 seats to take over the assembly. I think we can get a few but not 9 we need.

[Ramup422 18]

Hello all great Patriots!

 

Some great comments and ideas on here..Keep it alive and remember, don't SIT BACK DOWN.

 

We will win this one day, but not if you and I give up...NEVER GIVE UP no matter how many times we are kicked in the teeth.

 

Thank you all for the support and please don't forget to send Alan Gottlieb, Evan Nappen and Anthony Colandro a big thank you for their support in fighting for our rights in NJ.

 

Ryan and Newtonia, great comments and you GUYS ROCK! 

[chris327 30]

Hello all great Patriots!

 

Some great comments and ideas on here..Keep it alive and remember, don't SIT BACK DOWN.

 

We will win this one day, but not if you and I give up...NEVER GIVE UP no matter how many times we are kicked in the teeth.

 

Thank you all for the support and please don't forget to send Alan Gottlieb, Evan Nappen and Anthony Colandro a big thank you for their support in fighting for our rights in NJ.

 

Ryan and Newtonia, great comments and you GUYS ROCK! 

Albert,

I think we all owe you a thank you for fighting as you've pushed the issue further than any of us have.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Hello all great Patriots!

 

Some great comments and ideas on here..Keep it alive and remember, don't SIT BACK DOWN.

 

We will win this one day, but not if you and I give up...NEVER GIVE UP no matter how many times we are kicked in the teeth.

 

Thank you all for the support and please don't forget to send Alan Gottlieb, Evan Nappen and Anthony Colandro a big thank you for their support in fighting for our rights in NJ.

 

Ryan and Newtonia, great comments and you GUYS ROCK!

I'm glad you're still fighting! Long live the Party of 6!

[Ramup422 18]

Thank you Deer...there are very big changes in this case. Due to the lack of actions, and other shady dealings involving 2A leadership and lawyers in NJ, in order to protect backroom deals with the EO180 (that may not come to fruitation) We have consolidated cases with Michael Ttumminelli and Almeida v NJ by hiring 2 well known 2A firms outside of NJ to take over this case and bring it back to the original plan with the Federal Courts. This was done to avoid the politics and corruption involved in NJ. Please visit www.partyof6.org for further details.

[Iggyort 44]

yes there's definitely a few we can easily swing. But we need 9 seats to take over the assembly. I think we can get a few but not 9 we need.

Did you include Donna Simon on that list? She lost her seat due to a low turn out in Legislative Dist 16.I have worked for her in the last two election cycles and she is very pro gun.