Out of State Long Gun Purchase

[NJGunGeek1980 1]

So here it is, my understanding of state & federal law is that I can buy any long gun I want out of state and would only have to register it in NJ if i wanted to as NJ has no requirement for registration.

 

The reason I ask this is as we all know the SP form that all in state FFL's require is also required I found out by Gander Mt. and Cabelas as well.

 

Is this a State of NJ requirement or a company policy of them. I would like to get a couple of shotguns & bolt action rifles out of state at one of the larger big-box stores or mom & pop shop if possible but from what i am hearing from the NJ SP is unless they also have a NJ dealers lic. they can not sell to a NJ resident. 

[magnawing 5]

They're "supposed" to fill out a COE and send to NJ and most of the bordering state dealers do. Not sure about further away.

 

 

This signature is AWESOME!!!

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

You can purchase long guns out of state providing that:

 

A) You are compliant with the laws of both states. For a NJ resident buying out of state that means you must have an FPID and a COE should be filled out at the point of purchase. Some out of state dealers may not fill out the COE as it really has no impact on them, and no copies go back to LE in the purchaser's state. You should still make a copy for yourself. Also means that any firearms purchased must be NJ compliant.

 

B) The dealer is willing to sell to you. It is within their right to refuse to sell to anyone, Oftem times if dealers are not familiar with NJ law, they will just refuse to sell to you.

 

You fill out a 4473 (federal) just as you would for any firearm sale and undergo a NICS check (PICS if you are buying in PA).

 

Simple. Have fun.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

They're "supposed" to fill out a COE and send to NJ 

 

Incorrect. Only two copies of the COE. One for the seller - to be filed with the 4473, and one for the purchaser. Nothing goes back to any governmental or LE entity in NJ.

[NJGunGeek1980 1]

So the reason I am asking this is not that i have anything to hide but my fear is that someday NJ becomes like CT and if there is no registration then NJ does not know i have it now I know from some LEO friends that say if they run my FID number any firearm I bought in the state of NJ shows up not just pistols so if I bought at say Gander Mt. does NJ know about or is it just a COE like a person to person in NJ and nothing gets reported back to the state. 

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

.... I know from some LEO friends that say if they run my FID number any firearm I bought in the state of NJ shows up not just pistols so if I bought at say Gander Mt. does NJ know about or is it just a COE like a person to person in NJ and nothing gets reported back to the state. 

 

Since the only records generated at the point of sale of a long gun are...

 

The 4473 - a federal form which stays with the FFL until they either lose heir license or close (at which point they all go to the feds)

The NICS check - which is not serial number specific (just long gun or hand gun) and the record of which is destroyed at relatively short intervals (no permanent record) if it is a positive NICS.

The COE - which as I said only goes to the purchaser and the seller.

 

Buy it here, buy it there, makes no difference as far as anyone knowing what you have.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

Since the only records generated at the point of sale of a long gun are...

 

The 4473 - a federal form which stays with the FFL until they either lose heir license or close (at which point they all go to the feds)

The NICS check - which is not serial number specific (just long gun or hand gun) and the record of which is destroyed at relatively short intervals (no permanent record) if it is a positive NICS.

The COE - which as I said only goes to the purchaser and the seller.

 

Buy it here, buy it there, makes no difference as far as anyone knowing what you have.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

THIS^^^^^^^^^

 

NJ does not know what long guns you are buying, even when purchased in NJ. The only way they would be able to check this is to manually search the mountain of entries in a dealer's hand written bound book or a more tedious search of 4473 copies when doing an audit of a dealer. The NJSP simply doesn't have the man power to collect this information outside of some extraordinary unusual reason to do such a search.

[kwadz 11]

THIS^^^^^^^^^

 

NJ does not know what long guns you are buying, even when purchased in NJ. The only way they would be able to check this is to manually search the mountain of entries in a dealer's hand written bound book or a more tedious search of 4473 copies when doing an audit of a dealer. The NJSP simply doesn't have the man power to collect this information outside of some extraordinary unusual reason to do such a search.

 

You mean like a CT-style ban and potential confiscation effort, funded by Bloomberg, Norcross, Soros, etc.? 

 

Buy all long guns out of state.  PA State Police are not very likely to comply with a NJSP request for all PA FFL 4473 forms.

[ryan_j 0]

This signature is AWESOME!!!

 

Except that it misquotes George Washington...

 

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies."

[ryan_j 0]

So the reason I am asking this is not that i have anything to hide but my fear is that someday NJ becomes like CT and if there is no registration then NJ does not know i have it now I know from some LEO friends that say if they run my FID number any firearm I bought in the state of NJ shows up not just pistols so if I bought at say Gander Mt. does NJ know about or is it just a COE like a person to person in NJ and nothing gets reported back to the state. 

 

 

It is likely that they'll talk to bordering dealers and pull 4473s.

 

The main reason I buy out of state is price. Some dealers in NJ are charging almost 2x what the same gun costs out of state. I know the cost of doing business in NJ is high, but not THAT high. 

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

You mean like a CT-style ban and potential confiscation effort, funded by Bloomberg, Norcross, Soros, etc.? 

 

Buy all long guns out of state.  PA State Police are not very likely to comply with a NJSP request for all PA FFL 4473 forms.

If you really beleive that, you had better get to Costco and buy the industrial sized roll tin foil............

 

The NJSP is streched too thin and doesn't have the money in their budget to phyically search through 4473's en masse to find guns they may find objectionable. They didn't do anything remotely like that back in 1990 when the original AWB was passed. Bloomberg, Soros or any other anti gun billionare isn't going to get more troopers transfered temporarily to the FIU to go on a witch hunt, NJSP just doesn't have the manpower to spare.

[[email protected] 57]

Like hell they dont know what guns you already own.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Like hell they dont know what guns you already own.

 

[stevek 0]

You're talking about purchases from an FFL…you could always purchase long guns legally face to face from a private citizen outside the state.

[Damjan 73]

You're talking about purchases from an FFL…you could always purchase long guns legally face to face from a private citizen outside the state.

No you can't.

Now read this

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/29389-read-before-posting-nj-gun-law-faq/

[ogfarmer 138]

No you can't.

Now read this

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/29389-read-before-posting-nj-gun-law-faq/

As Damjan said you cannot purchase FTF outside the state UNLESS you use a FFL in theirs or your state.

 

2. Long gun purchases by

....A. NJ resident from

........(1) NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

........(2) NJ resident = face to face with a FPID, COE with Photo ID suggested

........(3) Out-of-state dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

........(4) Out-of-state resident = must be transferred through

............a. NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID or

............b. Out-of-state dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

....B. Non-resident from

........(1) NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

........(2) NJ resident = must be transferred through

............a. NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID or

............b. Out-of-state dealer = consult buyer's home state laws

[miamigunsinc 0]

Interesting, I've never heard of it. Even if it is true, I would guess most FFLs will not do it becaues they are afraid of change.

[ClangClang 14]

You're talking about purchases from an FFL…you could always purchase long guns legally face to face from a private citizen outside the state.

 

Absolutely untrue.  It is ILLEGAL to purchase ANY gun from any out-of-state resident without an FFL transfer.  This applies for every American in every state, not just NJ.

[Newtonian 453]

This is creepy. Where did you get my picture?

[Newtonian 453]

Absolutely untrue.  It is ILLEGAL to purchase ANY gun from any out-of-state resident without an FFL transfer.  This applies for every American in every state, not just NJ.

I've seen it and lost it. Can you quote or link to this law?

[PK90 3,570]

I've seen it and lost it. Can you quote or link to this law?

 

From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[Newtonian 453]

As Damjan said you cannot purchase FTF outside the state UNLESS you use a FFL in theirs or your state.

 

2. Long gun purchases by

....A. NJ resident from

........(1) NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

........(2) NJ resident = face to face with a FPID, COE with Photo ID suggested

........(3) Out-of-state dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

........(4) Out-of-state resident = must be transferred through

............a. NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID or

............b. Out-of-state dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

....B. Non-resident from

........(1) NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID

........(2) NJ resident = must be transferred through

............a. NJ dealer = NICS check with a FPID, COE and Photo ID or

............b. Out-of-state dealer = consult buyer's home state laws

So in other words the "gun show loophole" only applies to in-state-in-state purchases of long guns between individuals?

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

So in other words the "gun show loophole" only applies to in-state-in-state purchases of long guns between individuals?

 

Yes, as long as it does not violate a state or local law.

[Newtonian 453]

Yes, as long as it does not violate a state or local law.

And, I'd imagine, handguns as well in states that don't require a purchase permit.

[CommonSense 0]

The "gun show loophole" reminds me of "assault weapon"; just a lot of BS!

[galapoola 102]

Absolutely untrue.  It is ILLEGAL to purchase ANY gun from any out-of-state resident without an FFL transfer.  This applies for every American in every state, not just NJ.

100% true, except for items not covered by BAFTE.

That includes air rifles, 1800's Mauser (like the ones Sportsman's Guide would send right to your house, except if you live in NJ) and similar.

In NJ you need an FID and a pistol purchase permit to buy a sling shot or FID for a pellet gun. In PA you wander into a Walmart and just buy them.

 

[Newtonian 453]

100% true, except for items not covered by BAFTE.

That includes air rifles, 1800's Mauser (like the ones Sportsman's Guide would send right to your house, except if you live in NJ) and similar.

In NJ you need an FID and a pistol purchase permit to buy a sling shot or FID for a pellet gun. In PA you wander into a Walmart and just buy them.

And, practically, what are the likely consequences of making such a purchase? 

 

I hope I don't kill this thread by asking.

[galapoola 102]

Drive to PA, legally buy a non firearm (according to PA & USA statutes), drive back over the river with non-firearm stored per NJ statute. Your travel is covered by exemptions and your ownership is legal, you don't need an FID or pistol purchase permit to buy a non firearm in PA, once you own it you don't need a FID or pistol purchase permit to own it in NJ. Of course you own any firearm at your peril in NJ yadayada.