Jump to content
DevsAdvocate

Question: looking to switch from the "evil" SERPA holster to something accepted in classes...

Recommended Posts

I run 2 belt rigs, one a battle belt with MOLLE which can carry pistol mags and rifle mags, and a lighter 1.5" belt just for pistol.  However, they both run SERPAs.  Yeaaaah, there's a bunch of bitching and moaning on the internet about it (annoying if you ask me), but it's gotten to the point where training classes won't allow them, which means I get to toss out things which I spent good money on and replace them.

 

Here's the deal though: I like blackhawks system of being able to take a holster off one belt and put it on another using this (http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SERPA-Quick-Disconnect-Kit-2-Female1-Male,1239,82.htm) and this (

 

Question 1: what are the thoughts on this holster? http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Sportster-Standard-CQC-Concealment-Holster,1805,32.htm

 

Question 2: does anyone make a holster system which should work with these Blackhawk accessories?  Like Safariland (expensive)?  Or Uncle Mikes?

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at the Safariland ALS holsters and the QLS mounts. They are not expensive. Depending on model and features the Holster is about $35-40 and the QLS mounts are $20 or so. You can mount a QLS receiver on all sorts of things and snap on the holsters to all sorts of gear. 

 

You can also look at the Bladetech holsters which I believe also have a quick detach system now, I don't just mean the techloks, they have something like the ELS/QLS, just can't think of its name now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the bitching and moaning is for cause. I have seen the Serpas fail time and time again, and in my opinion they should be verboten. I don't allow them at any range in run or any class I teach.

 

Face it, you spent good money on crappy gear - acknowledge it, learn from it, correct it, and drive on. We have all done it before and we will all do it again. You didn't get hurt by the gear and it didn't fail when you needed it most - You got away cheap at twice the price.

 

Get yourself Safariland holsters and use the QLS plates to enable swapping holsters to different belt setups. They also add a bit if standoff making draws easier, especially in armor or kit.

 

http://www.safariland.com/Dutygear/duty/qls.aspx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone have firsthand use of these?  G-Code's look nice.  Same with Bladtechs.  Safarilands are pricey... 

 

I'm not even sure I want retention crap anymore, and would rather just use a Kydex or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For what gun? I think you run Glocks? 

 

The ALS for a glock 17 is $41 on amazon. 

 

A pack of 2 QLS mounts and a Holster fork is $38

 

A MLS fork to mount the QLS plate to Molle is $14

 

A Bladetech Revolution is $35, I didn't hunt down their quick detach stuff. 

 

I use Bladetech kydex and Revolution holsters as well the ALS holster. They are all great, but the ALS is so easy to use I have no problem using it even for USPSA speed draws, in fact it is all I'd buy today.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had a serpa for 3+ years... use it everytime is goto the range... and even use there drop leg holster and never had a issue. I think we need to stop punishing 1 type of holster for the actions of a few people using that holster. #holstersense

Everyone harps on one aspect of this piece of crap holster. No one thinks of any of the proems inherent with this particular holster.

 

Shooting yourself, while a real concern, is not the only issue this holster has. It is made from weak materials and breaks often. I have seen the holster ripped free from its attachment point in a gun grab, I have seen the release mechanism fail after getting the pistol caught on a seatbelt while getting out of a car, locking the holster in place until the holster could be cut away. I have seen snow, mud, gravel, and dirt lock the holster up tight. I have seen someone get taken to the ground on the gunside where the impact canted the pistol enough in the holster body that a draw was impossible. The SERPA is the only holster I have seen this happen to and I have see it happen more than once. I know guys that are saddled with this albatross by their COC that keep tin snips so they can cut their gun out of the holster in the event it fails. That is unsatisfactory.

 

It is a poorly designed piece of junk made to inferior standards that is a big seller based on price alone and not quality of the product.

 

I get it, no one likes to be told that their baby is ugly, but I don't see why there is this fanatical defense of a $30 piece of plastic that is known to have so many issues.

 

I was always taught "if there is a doubt, then there is no doubt". I have significant doubts regarding this holster that are based on first hand observations during hard use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll admit, I was a fan of the serpa, and used it on my 1911, no issues.  After backing it up with serpa for my M9 I realized that my finger did in fact land on or very close to the trigger during a normal draw.  

When I got my PPQ and decided to make it my dedicated training/defensive gun, I took HE's and many others advice and went with a safariland to put on my molle belt.  Using it with the qls it clears my chest rig and my plate carrier.   It cost me $150, but it is definitely a stronger, better made holster, keeping the gun with light very secure and comfortable with out going to a drop leg.  

 

I'd definitely look into them if you are serious about whatever training/defensive uses you may have.  

ETA: I bought a level 3 holster which makes it a little more money than a level 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you've ever taken a class from a competent firearms instructor, you'll learn that the release on the Serpa puts your trigger finger in the wrong place too.

It looks like with most models, the trigger finger needs to press right above the trigger guard, below the slide, to release the Serpa lock. This is the same position I used to have my trigger finger, thinking this is safely out of the trigger guard. Then I was in a Ken Hackathorn class, and Ken kindly corrected my placement of the trigger finger, letting me know that it needs to be even higher up, as close to the ejection port as possible. Ken was adamant about this being necessary. I've made a habit of this since and never looked back. With the Serpa, the trigger finger would not be high up enough to be safely away from the trigger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny how the two LEO Instructors in my last two classes both used Serpas as of last night and two weeks ago. One NJSP and the other a local. And the majority of off duty LEO's that provide security at large sporting events at my son's school that I work with. Or my buddy who is the tactical firearms instructor for his department uses one off duty. On the clock or active duty some use Safariland 6580 or the like, which I have as well. But in a clean environment, nothing is wrong with a Serpa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone harps on one aspect of this piece of crap holster. No one thinks of any of the proems inherent with this particular holster.

 

Shooting yourself, while a real concern, is not the only issue this holster has. It is made from weak materials and breaks often. I have seen the holster ripped free from its attachment point in a gun grab, I have seen the release mechanism fail after getting the pistol caught on a seatbelt while getting out of a car, locking the holster in place until the holster could be cut away. I have seen snow, mud, gravel, and dirt lock the holster up tight. I have seen someone get taken to the ground on the gunside where the impact canted the pistol enough in the holster body that a draw was impossible. The SERPA is the only holster I have seen this happen to and I have see it happen more than once. I know guys that are saddled with this albatross by their COC that keep tin snips so they can cut their gun out of the holster in the event it fails. That is unsatisfactory.

 

It is a poorly designed piece of junk made to inferior standards that is a big seller based on price alone and not quality of the product.

 

I get it, no one likes to be told that their baby is ugly, but I don't see why there is this fanatical defense of a $30 piece of plastic that is known to have so many issues.

 

I was always taught "if there is a doubt, then there is no doubt". I have significant doubts regarding this holster that are based on first hand observations during hard use.

 

 

I will be changing off of a serpa soon.. there I said it...

I was so resistant because everyone kept talking that garbage about shooting yourself, which to this day I still blame on someone being an idiot, and not the fault of the holster..

I will be changing because I agree that there are issues with a "bad guy" snapping the whole rig off of you.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vlad that can happen with any holster... from basic kydex to a safariland rig. I think the whole anti serpa propoganda is because of people not using common sense. Tons of leos, military, and private security companies use and issue these rigs. If it was really of concern do you think they would still issue, use and train with serpas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vlad that can happen with any holster... from basic kydex to a safariland rig. I think the whole anti serpa propoganda is because of people not using common sense. Tons of leos, military, and private security companies use and issue these rigs. If it was really of concern do you think they would still issue, use and train with serpas?

 

 

there is truth to the release mechanism locking up with debris under it... that is factual.. 

 

and sure any holster can break.. but the serpa rig is pretty weak... I am NOT saying that the other offerings are stronger because I do not know that to be fact... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tons of leos, military, and private security companies use and issue these rigs. If it was really of concern do you think they would still issue, use and train with serpas?

 

Yes, because not every professional organization is completely switched on to quality gear (or even tactics). I've even had LEO's tell me firsthand that most of their colleagues cannot shoot well, and are not what you would consider "gun guys." Quite simply, their firearms and gear are just tools for them. No different than how many view their pen. Also, a lot of issued gear is based on the lowest bidder. I would not let things like this be an influencing factor on what pieces of kit are ideal.

Sift through known professionals, and you will notice that the top guys are all against the Serpa...for good reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vlad that can happen with any holster... from basic kydex to a safariland rig. I think the whole anti serpa propoganda is because of people not using common Oh wait.... Was that out loud.

Bullfuckingshit. I have been in many classes as a student and taught classes or have run ranges with shooters from all over allowing me to witness a multitude of holsters from both big and small companies. The only ones I have seen routinely fail (or shooters who have had NDs with) are the SERPA and crappy Isreali rigs (like FOBUS etc...) that share a similar design. Yes, an occasional bail spring on a Safariland SLS will give up the ghost (the one example I have seen broke after 12 years of daily use as a LEO rig) or a screw will back out on a Bladetech belt attachment or Raven rig but I have seen nothing as catastrophic or as common as the SERPA failures I have seen.

 

These SERPA failures happened to some very switched on guys by the way. Guys that exercise common sense on a regular basis, guys that maintain their gear and know a thing or two. They had to use this garbage by SOP, as it was purchased by an admin puke that was trying to come in under budget by buying known inferior gear in an effort to make himself look good to the brass.

 

 

tons of leos, military, and private security companies use and issue these rigs. If it was really of concern do you think they would still issue, use and train with serpas?

Absolutely, unequivocally, yes they would. They are relatively inexpensive and the offer a retention level "on paper" that checks the right box.

 

By the way, the USMC has now forbidden the use of the SERPA. In my line of work, that is called a clue...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fobus is garbage..... possibly the most garbage I have ever seen... I used a mag holder maybe 3 or 4 times.... went into a situation where I was shooting on my side behind a barrier.. I got up moved forward and went to change mags... when I reached for the mag it wasnt there... it simply fell out while I was on my side... complete unreliable garbage.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For sheer entertainment value I can't compete with HE tonite, but I'll add that all gear fails. Use something long enough or hard enough and all things break. I've worn off the frame on a CZ because I've put that many rounds through it, but I'm not blaming the gun. I've broken Bladetech holsters after 10 years of use. Indeed, everything can and will break.

 

However, just because you can make a Honda vtech engine fail with a half a million miles of driving, that is no excuse for buying a Yugo and saying its performance is fine, after all they wouldn't have sold nearly a million to eastern europeans if it had reliability issues. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For sheer entertainment value I can't compete with HE tonite, but I'll add that all gear fails. Use something long enough or hard enough and all things break. I've worn off the frame on a CZ because I've put that many rounds through it, but I'm not blaming the gun. I've broken Bladetech holsters after 10 years of use. Indeed, everything can and will break.

 

However, just because you can make a Honda vtech engine fail with a half a million miles of driving, that is no excuse for buying a Yugo and saying its performance is fine, after all they wouldn't have sold nearly a million to eastern europeans if it had reliability issues. 

 

 

vtech is a phone

vtec is a honda engine

 

[off topic] I sprayed over a 1,000 lbs of nitrous through my vtec honda motor and couldnt kill it lol[/off topic]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just go Safariland ALS. The BlackHawk! Serpa is good for a budget retention holster but the issues listed above far outweigh the fact it's inexpensive.

 

Also if you go ALS you can go light bearing and it will retain with OR without the light. Just be mindful that the offset of the opening for the light bearing models will have a gap for small fingers to still be able to pull a trigger at the right angle and if so inclined. Be aware of your surroundings at all times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny how the two LEO Instructors in my last two classes both used Serpas as of last night and two weeks ago. One NJSP and the other a local. And the majority of off duty LEO's that provide security at large sporting events at my son's school that I work with. Or my buddy who is the tactical firearms instructor for his department uses one off duty. On the clock or active duty some use Safariland 6580 or the like, which I have as well. But in a clean environment, nothing is wrong with a Serpa.

Funny how none of the LEO instructors I work with on a day to day basis use them. How none of my fellow SWAT guys on my team use them. And how none of the professional trainers I know allow them in their classes. I am the tactical firearms instructor for my PD and my SWAT team and I don't use a SERPA.

 

They guys I know that use them are the guys that are on blue welfare or are "retired on duty", the guys that just don't care, the guys that don't carry off duty and the guys that think that Cops don't need guns.

 

In my experience, the only thing cheaper than a Cop is two Cops. The only thing cheaper than two Cops is a Trooper or a CO, and the only thing cheaper than that is a PD Administrator buying gear. Couple that with the pervasive Cop attitude of "If they want me to have it, they will buy it for me" and 9 times out of ten, that will explain the use of inferior gear by those who you think would know better.

 

They guys you speaking of aren't my guys, so it is not my concern, they are big boys and the info is well known if they want it - but just because they use inferior/unsafe gear doesn't mean you have to if you know better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my experience - actual use in training environments and real world daily carry (not just looking at/into it) - I am convinced it doesn't*. ;)

 

It is the current industry standard for tactical/duty use for LEO and Mil personal in the US.

 

*yes, I understand anything built by humans can and will fail. But with this holster the rate is statistically negligible especially when compared to that of the Serpa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...