What is the deal with 5.45x39?

[18Steel 11]

Was reading how there will no more imported because some d bag decided to make a pistol.  Just got a e-mail from classic firearms that this is their last shipment of 5.45x39.  

 

Can someone educate me on the whole situation and if this is really the case and why?  And what does it really mean to future supply of 5.45 x 39 ammo.

 

So I guess I will not be converting a Saiga anytime soon like I planned.

[Kaiser7 33]

Pretty much, any bullet with a steel core that can be fired out of a pistol is "armor piercing" and gets the ol' banhammer from ATF. Most surplus ammo from various Communist Bloc countries is copper coated steel, or copper over steel and lead, etc.

7.62x54R is an example.

However, it's perfectly legal to import this ammo for sale if there are no commercially-made "pistols" for it. As you know, Tacti-cool idiots think for some dilluded reason that an AR/AK with no stock, and a short barrel is somehow UBERAWESOMEEFFECTIVE.

So, some idiot out of Arizona made one, listed it on Gunbroker (Even saying in the post the AK74 pistol was "one of a kind" and invited people to "Try searching for another", because "Some idiots INCORRECTLY believe making a pistol in 5.45x39 will get surplus 7N6 banned."

BTW, some place, Black Horse Armory has considered releasing a "pistol" in 7.62x54R, which would get ALL of the surplus ammo in that caliber banned from import.

 

As for future ammo supply, it'll be available, you'll just have to buy new production, which will be hard to find at first, but will come around. Apparently the same thing happened with 7.62x39 surplus in 1994. I'm pretty sure companies like Wolf and Tulammo will produce some for a decent price.

[maintenanceguy 510]

I've been watching the price of 5.54x39 since the announcement.  It went up a couple of cents initially but, surprising to me, has not risen since.

[T Bill 649]

Read the latest from Ammoland.

http://www.ammoland.com/2014/04/lawless-obama-shreds-more-constitutional-protections-for-steel-core-5-45x39-ammo/#axzz2xrz1FDX6

[18Steel 11]

Now why would some azzhole do that.  You would think he would know the consequences of his actions.  What if this fool took his pistol out of circulation, does it matter?

 

What happens then, someone will manufacture a round that meets the ATF's specs and charge 3 times the price or are you left paying inflated prices from people who hoarded?  

[DL75 0]

You should be working not posting!! Lol

[18Steel 11]

You should be working not posting!! Lol

I am.  Working hard raising the grid pressure lol

[RecessedFilter 222]

People can't stop talking about this, even going as far as saying I'm never buying a 74 or I'm selling mine. That's a bit ridiculous. Just because surplus is not being imported anymore, it's not like there won't be ammo available. Sure, surplus shot well and is cheap but there are still plenty of other factory brand offerings.

[Kaiser7 33]

Now why would some azzhole do that.  You would think he would know the consequences of his actions.  What if this fool took his pistol out of circulation, does it matter?

 

What happens then, someone will manufacture a round that meets the ATF's specs and charge 3 times the price or are you left paying inflated prices from people who hoarded?  

Pandora's box, once it's opened, I'm pretty sure you can never close it. Maybe that's the wrong analogy, but you get the idea.

 

Yup, you'll get a round made by Tulammo, or Wolf (still pretty cheap) that's just copper-coated lead, but it'll cost $7 for a box of 20 or so. However, it will take a while for them to tool up, and make the supply--and i imagine they're more likely to make it than any american manufacturers. Plus, they have not incentive while there is still a supply of surplus, until that's gone, no one will buy more expensive new production.

 

You should be working not posting!! Lol

 

 

I thought you were talking to me... I was going to say, my job is dead tonight... i'm on here, and writing a paper for someone for money haha.

[18Steel 11]

I was thinking about buying a couple of thousands rounds for if I do decide to convert a Saiga, but I'll probably just leave the rounds out there for the people who really need it.  
 

Or I can be like one of those 22lr people who buy up everything and then sell it at ridiculous prices.  Nah, not my style.

[raz-0 1,259]

Don't trust goa to tell the truth when inflammatory half truths will do. 7n6 is banned from import. That doesn't mean copper washed steel jacketed will be. Much like there are 7.62x39 pistols, and plenty of copper washed steel foreign ammo. 7n6 is penetrator core stuff like 855 is for 5.56

[Dan 177]

I think people are most upset because the 7n6 stuff was cheap and high quality. A 5.45 shooter will now have to pony up an extra $100 per 1080 rounds for new production import stuff.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Again..this is really making me consider selling my saiga and all 5.45 ammo. Why have another caliber if it costs me the same as the others I already have

[18Steel 11]

I think people are most upset because the 7n6 stuff was cheap and high quality. A 5.45 shooter will now have to pony up an extra $100 per 1080 rounds for new production import stuff.

That was the reason why I was going to get a 5.45 rifle. I guess I'll just stick with my 7.62's 

[Dan 177]

Yep, without the 7n6 surplus around, there is no longer a cost advantage over 7.62x39. To own and shoot it now would mean that you like the round for other reasons like performance/ballistics.

[Kaiser7 33]

Yep, without the 7n6 surplus around, there is no longer a cost advantage over 7.62x39. To own and shoot it now would mean that you like the round for other reasons like performance/ballistics.

 

Who cares about that stuff? Cash is king XD. Just kidding, but yeah, the price of ammo is a huge consideration for which guns to get and stuff. I've always been rather shocked how expensive it is, even when I first got into shooting. I know there is a company that buys used brass, and remanufactures rounds, supposedly they're actually good, and not a danger at all. I think you can take used brass, and based off the price of current brass prices, they'll apply the price of whatever brass you send in towards a purchase of ammo. They sell both remanufactured and new production, only problem is their product line is somewhat limited at the moment, and they only accept brass for calibers they produce. (But, at least it's common stuff like .223, .308, .45acp, etc.)

[Njbanshee 9]

The 5.45 had much more to offer than just cheap ammo. How about it is extremely effective in battle situations? How about the minimal recoil and the ability to stay on target? Ok, so the cheap stuff is gone. Was it really that cheap? How about the amount of time it takes to clean off the corrosive ammo and still get rust when you take it out of the safe. I think for the couple of dollars per range trip the trade off is well worth it to Not have to clean the corrosive stuff.

[Cache 0]

 

So I guess I will not be converting a Saiga anytime soon like I planned.

 

That makes 2 of us... definitely disappointed.

[BlueLineFish 615]

I still cant decide to keep everything or just sell it off

[Dan 177]

It's a good round in my eyes. Being cost equal to 7.62 now, I'd still choose it.

[ogfarmer 138]

HERE is the official ATF letter released yesterday

 

 

Here's a quick copy and paste-


Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Special Advisory

Public Affairs Division - Washington, DC







April 7, 2014

www.atf.gov


Test, Examination and Classification of 7N6 5.45x39 Ammunition



On March 5, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) received a request from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency (CBP) to conduct a test, examination and classification of Russian-made 7N6 5.45x39 ammunition for purposes of determining whether it is considered “armor piercing ammunition” as defined by the Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended. Since 1986, the GCA has prohibited the importation of armor piercing ammunition unless it is destined for government use or testing. The imported ammunition about which CBP was inquiring was not destined for either excepted purpose.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, defines the term “armor piercing ammunition” as:

“(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” (emphasis added)

When ATF tested the 7N6 samples provided by CBP, they were found to contain a steel core. ATF’s analysis also concluded that the ammunition could be used in a commercially available handgun, the Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S, 5.45x39 caliber semi-automatic pistol, which was approved for importation into the United States in November 2011. Accordingly, the ammunition is “armor piercing” under the section 921(a)(17)(B)(i) and is therefore not importable. ATF’s determination applies only to the Russian-made 7N6 ammunition analyzed, not to all 5.45x39 ammunition. Ammunition of that caliber using projectiles without a steel core would have to be independently examined to determine their importability

[chris327 30]

well i guess soon will be the time to buy a cheap 5.45 rifle. i think the used market is going to get flooded with them since the ammo savings wont be there any longer vs 7.62 or as great for 5.56.

[ryan_j 0]

Total sham. FEW if any of these pistols were imported into the US. 

[RecessedFilter 222]

All you guys saying you're debating selling your 74 or now not going to buy one, shame on you! They are wonderful rifles and the fact that just because the ammo is now going to be the same price of it's brother, 7.62x39, you now don't want one? It's a great caliber in terms of lessened-recoil and accuracy and many ammo companies make factory ammo for it. It's amazing how one little thing happens and now everyone wants out. I can understand that the cheap(er) ammo really interests people in a rifle like that but comparing it to other calibers, it's just one more that is now around the price of other common rifle rounds. In my opinion, your owning a 74 based on the rifle platform and possibly the cheap(er) ammo. But just because the ammo that we will now have to purchase is increased in price a bit, so many people have lost interest in it so quickly? Let's get real - shooting is not a cheap hobby nor will it ever be. You pay $230 for a case of 7.62x39, $350 for 5.56, and between that for 5.45…I don't find that enough reason to either sell or not buy. But hey, that's just me!

 

With all that said, I'll wait until the commotion drops a bit and then start looking for one as everyone gets rid of theirs 

[Newtonian 453]

A recent youtube video explained the shortage in .22lr as an attempt by the gummint to eliminate training rounds. "So you can't train your children or yourselves."

 

I found that idea to be rather silly, since the blogger didn't say how the feds were doing this, or what they were doing with the excess .22 ammo. I doubt that ammo makers could keep such a secret.

 

So, for those of you who build a new tinfoil hat each and every day, I hypothesize that they're doing the same with 7.62 x 39, arguably the serious round that's the large-caliber equivalent of .22lr.

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[BlueLineFish 615]

If I'm going to pay the same amount i would rather just add more x39 and 556 than stock another caliber. Of course i decide this after u just got a crate a couple weeks ago. Wasn't as cheap as i remember it being.

[Underdog 1,593]

The Statist Schmucks never stop in their encroachment of our freedoms, and to boot it was done by unelected bureaucrats. 

 

ATF Bans Importation of Russian-Made 5.45x39

[intercooler 41]

I am packing my tins away for shtf

[intercooler 41]

I am packing my tins away for shtf

[lunker 274]

Ammo manufacturers never had a reason to jump on the 5.45 bandwagon since their competition was high quality milsurp ammo that sells for less than they can make it for at a profit. I predict we see new sources of 5.45, the way we saw new sources of 7.62 in the 90's.