m&p 9c or full-size?

[diamondd817 826]

Beretta PX4 Compact - 15rds 9mm?

 

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

The muzzle energy of the 223 is almost 5x's as much as a 9mm and the velocity is almost 3x's as much, factor that in with the size of the round and the fact that most HD 9mm rounds will be hollow point and the expansion will slow them down upon impact its not even close lol.

 

http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

 

http://www.ballistics101.com/223_remington.php

There has been tests by several agencies showing the 223/5,56 is less penetrating in building materials than a 9mm. The high velocity of the 223/5,56 coupled with the light weight of the bullet will cause the bullet to upset and fragment faster than most handgun rounds including 9mm. Use a hollowpoint or softpoint 223 and penetration is more limited. Many SWAT teams have changed from MP5s to M4s for this reason.

 

There is also the issue of the bullet in a rifle being over stabilized at close ranges causing it to wobble a little at closer ranges. This enhances the fragmentation and helps limit penetration. This is not a new concept and Julian Hatcher showed how a 44 magnum bullet out of a handgun penetrated more at 25 yds than a 30-06 from a rifle. At 200 yds a different story. This was illustrated in "Hatcher's Notebook" over 50 years ago.

[7-3-2 9]

There has been tests by several agencies showing the 223/5,56 is less penetrating in building materials than a 9mm. The high velocity of the 223/5,56 coupled with the light weight of the bullet will cause the bullet to upset and fragment faster than most handgun rounds including 9mm. Use a hollowpoint or softpoint 223 and penetration is more limited. Many SWAT teams have changed from MP5s to M4s for this reason.

 

There is also the issue of the bullet in a rifle being over stabilized at close ranges causing it to wobble a little at closer ranges. This enhances the fragmentation and helps limit penetration. This is not a new concept and Julian Hatcher showed how a 44 magnum bullet out of a handgun penetrated more at 25 yds than a 30-06 from a rifle. At 200 yds a different story. This was illustrated in "Hatcher's Notebook" over 50 years ago.

While that may be true if your talking about hitting beams and the such but if your missing that material the slower bullet with more surface area just seems like the safer option imo. I might not have the scientific evidence to support it but it just doesn't seem feasible that if I was to miss my target and send a piece of lead hurling towards my neighbors house that a rifle would be a safer option than a handgun caliber.

[GRIZ 3,369]

o

While that may be true if your talking about hitting beams and the such but if your missing that material the slower bullet with more surface area just seems like the safer option imo. I might not have the scientific evidence to support it but it just doesn't seem feasible that if I was to miss my target and send a piece of lead hurling towards my neighbors house that a rifle would be a safer option than a handgun caliber.

Most of the tests conducted that I saw used dry wall and 2x4 for the test medium. It doesn't seem like it should be the way I explained but it is. You certainly don't have to believe me but if you Google "223 penetration in building materials" you will find many references to what I said in my prior post. The FBI and other sources confirm what I said. MG Julian Hatcher was Chief of Ordnance for the Army and spent most of his career as an engineer at Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

 

If you're talking about penetrating one interior wall almost everything you shoot will penetrate. The 223 will cause a less serious wound due to being deformed and the velocity lost. Given enough interior walls (can't remember the number) and you will stop the 223 before you stop the 9mm.

[7-3-2 9]

Hmm... very interesting indeed. I guess it doesnt seem logical but hey I googled it and the info is out there. So I guess as long as you know your ammo isnt steel core you should be fine.

[Boejoula 0]

There are several hd .223 rds that are suited to not go thru walls. I will try and find links in the am. Hd guns boil down to what suits your situation best bc there are rds for most calibers available.

Any luck with those links?

[Blake 50]

Any luck with those links?

Truth be told I never looked for them. Will do a quick search when I get home from work tonight.

[7-3-2 9]

Ok so I exercised some self control and ripped up the permit, one of the hardest things I ere had to do but now I can stop obsessing over it lol.

[Blake 50]

Any luck with those links?

 

Ok here are a couple regarding using 223 as sd ammo and there are links in the articles to various tests.

 

http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/    Click on 223

 

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/ammunition.html   Drywall test w/ various 223 loads

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/ryan-finn/sheetrock-penetration-testing-take-1/  Different calibers vs drywall

[Boejoula 0]

Ok here are a couple regarding using 223 as sd ammo and there are links in the articles to various tests.

 

http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/ Click on 223

 

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/ammunition.html Drywall test w/ various 223 loads

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/ryan-finn/sheetrock-penetration-testing-take-1/ Different calibers vs drywall

Thank you! I tried looking earlier but found stuff that wasn't too helpful to me

[LorenzoS 100]

5.56 penetrates about the same, but more reliably as 9mm JHP.  If you are not familiar with Gary Roberts and his ballistics information, spend some time reading the reference stickies of the pistol-forum Ammunition forum:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4334-Home-Defense-Long-Guns

 

 

Keep in mind that over the past 20 years, the vast majority of the 5.56mm/.223 loads we tested have exhibited significantly less penetration than 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 12 ga. shotgun projectiles after first penetrating through interior walls. Stray 5.56mm/.223 bullets seem to offer a reduced risk of injuring innocent bystanders and an inherent reduced risk of civil litigation in situations where bullets miss their intended target and enter or exit structures, thus 5.56mm/.223 caliber weapons may be safer to use in CQB situations, home defense scenarios, and in crowded urban environments than handgun service caliber or 12 ga. weapons.

 

[Blacksmythe 71]

Picked up a used M&P 9 Shield with 3 mags. Great shooter.