S&W 686-6 Brass Stuck in Cylinder

[NJ Diver 1]

I was curious if anyone else has had this issue before.

My wife and I were at the range tonight and after about 100+ flawless rounds of 38 spcl, we loaded her 686-6 with some 357 magnum. The first six shots all fired fine and were accurate, but the brass would not come out of the cylinder.

Three of the cases I could pull out by hand, but you could feel they were snug. The other three we had to use a punch and hammer to get them out. Only light force was needed with the hammer, nothing excessive. A single tap to each and they released. I will tell you they did not feel tight when loading them. Slid in nice and easy as normal.

This is the second time that we have had this problem with this brand ammo in her pistol. Last time however I was able to get them out by hand. No issues like this with other brands of 357 mag. The funny thing is that they extract just fine out of my 686-6.

So I'm sure the obvious fix here is to not use that ammo in her gun anymore. Just curious if this has happened to anyone else before.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

This is not as inexplicable as you might imagine. You say you fired over 100 rounds of 38spl first and then switched to .357mag. The 38spl is .10 inch shorter in the case than 38spl so there is fouling that builds up in the chamber just in front of the case mouth. When you subsequently fire a .357 the case is fire-formed to the chamber but is pressed into the fouling left by the 38spl. This will make extraction difficult. ad to this the higher pressure of the .357mag and the fire-form shaping really presses the 357 case into the crud left after the 38spl firings.

 

As an experiment, run the .357mag first, before any 38spl, and I'll bet you find the extraction easier.

 

Of course, you need to clean the chambers before you start this experiment.

[W2MC 1,699]

Yes - completely possible, and very common...though needing a hammer and a punch is a little extreme.

 

The .357 cartridge, being a tenth of an inch longer than the .38 special cartridge, is extending into the area in the chamber that has been fouled by shooting the 100 or so .38 rounds.  Due to the pressure created when fired, the brass cartridge case expands within the chamber, gripping the sides and helping to hold the cartridge in the chamber.  When the pressure drops, the brass 'springs back' a little, allowing the extractor to remove the spent cartridge from the smooth, polished chamber.  

 

The problem is that you've deposited a good bit of fouling inside that chamber by shooting the 100 .38 specials.  So, instead of smooth polished chamber, there's a ring of grit at the mouth of the .357 case (which is a tenth of an inch longer than the .38) holding the spent .357 cartridge in the chamber.  Multiply this times six (all the other rounds in the cylinder) and it can be difficult popping them all out of the cylinder.  Usually a good smack on the ejector rod with your palm is enough to get them out, but I guess yours must have been an extreme case.  

[GRIZ 3,369]

What Mr Stu says is correct. However unless you're using really crappy 38 ammo, 100 rds shouldn't gum up the chambers enough to prevent 357 from being inserted or ejected.

 

I'm inclined to believe you really need to clean the cylinder well. There are mechanical ways to do this but you're better off minimizing the scrubbing with a brush, chore-boy, or whatever. Use a good wide range solvent like Hoppe's No 9. Swab the cylinder with solvent, brush each chamber a few times, swab with solvent again and let sit for a few minutes and brush again. You may have to repear this 10 times to really clean the cylinder but when the patches come out clean the cylinder will be as clean as the day it was made.

[illy 1]

^What they said.

 

Something else that works is letting some solvent soak into the crud build up, then pushing a fired .357 case into each cylinder to cut through the carbon rings left by the .38s.

 

For future range trips:

-bring a bore snake (.40 cal) to run through the cylinders before you switch from .38s to .357s

-avoid dirtier ammo if going from .38 to .357

-I've been using frog lube on my guns for about a year and haven't had this issue since I switched. Cleaning afterwards is super easy too. I've read fireclean is even better at preventing carbon build up, but have no personal experience with it.

[High Exposure 5,662]

Inconceivable!!!

 

Anyone saying this is a common occurrence is a dirty liar.

 

Everyone knows that revolvers never, ever jam [sic], only auto pistols have malfunctions!

 

:rofl:

[alec.mc 180]

Yup, likely a crud line like the above guys said,

 

Though - It could also be that your magnum rounds are over pressure. Are the primers flat as a pancake?

 

-Alec

[JT Custom Guns 956]

I'm gonna blame it on the Obama Administration...................

[W2MC 1,699]

Inconceivable!!!

 

Anyone saying this is a common occurrence is a dirty liar.

 

Everyone knows that revolvers never, ever jam [sic], only auto pistols have malfunctions!

 

:rofl:

Hey!  We never said anything of the sort....we said SIX FOR SURE!   

 

Reloading was another matter

 

[Contrvlr 17]

I'm gonna blame it on the Obama Administration...................

Whole lotta crud there

[NJ Diver 1]

Thanks guys. Makes total sense to me. The 38 spcl we were shooting wasn't jacketed and pretty dirty.  The gun always gets a very good cleaning after every trip to the range, at least I think its pretty thorough (still a noobie, so maybe my technique needs improvement).

 

Next trip I will try the 357 first.  Now that I think of it, as for my 686, I hadn't shot that until after the situation with the wife's gun,so the 357s were first in mine. I was busy shooting the new S&W 1911    Only thing is the last trip when this happened I had a couple hundred rounds of 38 in mine first too.

 

Thanks again for the quick responses!

[lexcruiser 12]

Well, I just learned something new. Thanks for posting this question and responses!

[alec.mc 180]

NJ Diver,

 

Please check signs of over pressure on your magnum rounds before writing this off as a crud ring, while they will be tight to eject, you shouldnt have to pound them out.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

NJ Diver,

 

Please check signs of over pressure on your magnum rounds before writing this off as a crud ring, while they will be tight to eject, you shouldnt have to pound them out.

 

You may very well see signs of overpressure, but that doesn't necessarily mean the ammo is loaded too hot. The crud ring in the cylinder, from your dirty .38 Spl rounds will also have the effect of constricting expansion of the .357 Magnum case thus increasing the pressure. If you do have signs of overpressure, clean the chambers thoroughly first, then shoot some of the same .357 Mag ammo and see if you still get pressure signs. As Alec pointed out those signs usually manifest as flattened primers or primers that "flow" beyond the primer pocket. Can also cause pierced primers.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Using a .40 cal Bore Snake after firing .38's is a great idea.  If your Bore Snake's built-in brush material wears-down from use, you may find it easier to just use a dry .40 caliber brush or a really "beat" .45 cal. brush.  After really dirty ammo, it's time for a little dip of the .40 brush into lead solvent and repeat as necessary.

 

Continued enjoyment with your Wheelies!

[NJ Diver 1]

OK, I have to ask a real newbie question now... won't a .40 cal bore snake or brush cause damage to a 38 spcl/357 mag?

[alec.mc 180]

OK, I have to ask a real newbie question now... won't a .40 cal bore snake or brush cause damage to a 38 spcl/357 mag?

 

 

No, you want a real snug fit to pull out all the gunk that's in there, it's pretty common to use one size up.

 

Also, most chamber brushes are made of brass, which is softer then the steel of the cylinder. It will not cause any damage.

[illy 1]

Another point to consider: the diameter of the grooves in the bore is .357-.358; the inside diameter of the cylinders should be .379 (the size of the case vs the bullet).

Hence the reason for going up a size for cleaning the cylinder throats.

[NJ Diver 1]

Thanks for all the info guys.

[son of sam 9]

My revolver experience is limited to the last 2 years. But, I have found that Gunzilla on a nylon bore brush does a great job and also helps reduce the amount of buildup. Works great on my XVR and 686+. I also use it for all my autos. Also if you reload, than reload your mag brass to light loads rather than using short brass. You will see better accuracy as well.

[PeteF 1,044]

Trick for you if you know a reloader.

take a piece of 357 brass and run it thru an expander die to flare the brass so that it will just fit in the chamber.

Put this piece of brass in your cleaning kit. After shooting 38s seat the 357 brass in each cylinder. This will scrape the majority of 38 crud out of the cylinder without damaging anything.