So, has ammo ever been available? (In the past decade)

[Kaiser7 33]

I'm getting really curious. I was selling off a little of my 8mm surplus to put money towards a mini-30 (Odds are I'll soon be posting a WTB here), and the guy asked me if it was magnetic. While doing some research, I stumbled across a forum post on the M14 forum about ammo shortages, with insights from two ammo manufacturers. I've been reading  a lot of these lately, and think they're an interesting take. They're mentioning how .223 was recently hard to come by, rising brass prices, reduction in imports of relatively new brass surplus, government buying, etc. etc.

 

Then I noticed the date--2007.

 

Which, I've only been a gun owner since about 2011 or so, but I've now seen there were shortages in 2007, 2008-2009 (Obama election), 2011 (Tuscon shooting), 2012-2013 (Fears of new AWB), and now in 2014 the runs we're seeing on .22.

 

Like I said, I pretty much immersed myself in firearm culture and stuff 3 years ago. Has it always been like this with ammo availability?

 

And for those interested in the post i saw

 

http://m14forum.com/ammunition/40911-two-ammo-vendors-speak-out-prices-availability.html

[Blake 50]

There have always been ammo shortages since I have started shooting, the price just goes up every time.

 

Its gotten worse in the past 10yrs though for sure. Ask ppl what they paid for ammo in 2004. 9mm 120/case, 556 $200/case, etc. Now we pay double that and think its a good deal. Inflation didnt cause the price increase, that money in going to someones pocket.

[mark_anthony_78 0]

Just think in 10 more years we'll be longing the days of dirt cheap 9mm at $0.25 and .223 at $0.40 per round.

[intercooler 41]

I remember $75 cases of Chinese 7.62x39 and 129.95 mak 90's at playtogs in Middletown NY

[njJoniGuy 2,131]

I remember $75 cases of Chinese 7.62x39 and 129.95 mak 90's at playtogs in Middletown NY

And bricks of .22LR for $5 in the '70s and $10 in the 90's pretty much everywhere!

[GRIZ 3,369]

And bricks of .22LR for $5 in the '70s and $10 in the 90's pretty much everywhere!

True but back in the 70s if you were making $20-25k a year your had a really good job. Other than surplus ammo the only imported ammo I can remember is Norma and it wasn't that common. I think Americans got a little spoiled with cheap imported ammo through the 90s and into 2000. That box of WW, RP, or S&W 38 hollowpoints cost about $8. Adjusted for inflation that should be about $32 today. The only premium handgun ammo around until they went out of business in 1974 was the original Super Vel and that cost $11-12, $44-48 in today's dollar.

 

The ammo shortages are induced by panic buying by shooters not some government conspiracy. The guy who would shoot a couple of boxes a month and not have a reserve supply finds the shelves are bare. This is because people are buying all the ammo they can because they fear Obama is going to make ammo illegal. The next time this casual shooter goes into the store and they have ammo, he buys 10 boxes instead of 2. This contributes to the "shortage".

 

There was a primer shortage that lasted about 2 years at the start of the Clinton administration. Rumors were they were going to categorize primers as an "explosive". There were people buying primers who didn't reload. Reloaders bought every primer they could get their hands on.

[Kaiser7 33]

So I'm guessing prices never trend back down. For instance, let's say in 2009 you could get 20rds of .223 for $5. Panic hits in 2010, and it sells for $7/box, then things chill out in 2011, it would never go back to $5, but MAYBE $6? (I was just giving a simple explanation with random years--my main question is that things never return to pre-panic levels, do they?)

[GRIZ 3,369]

I think some prices will go down. If ammo is hard to get and the wholesaler or retailer want to add a premium to it that premium will go away when ammo is more available. Simple supply and demand economics whether its ammo, oil, or pork bellies.

[AverageJoe 95]

Just think in 10 more years we'll be longing the days of dirt cheap 9mm at $0.25 and .223 at $0.40 per round.

And we'll have no one else to blame but ourselves...the same way ppl are buying bricks of 22 for 60, 70, even 80+ today...Dealers are getting these ridiculous prices because the consumer is lined up out the door to enable it.

[jrfly3006 42]

And we'll have no one else to blame but ourselves...the same way ppl are buying bricks of 22 for 60, 70, even 80+ today...Dealers are getting these ridiculous prices because the consumer is lined up out the door to enable it.

THIS...we..not the govt are the reason for the prices and the shortages...govt hasnt banned ammo..bought all the ammo..or any other excuse....we havent shown any ability to self restrain..so hence the hoarding and panic buying takes over...the anti's may be dumb..but they know enough that if they say a few words on TV about banning...the panic begins and we screw ourselves

[gunguy1960 2]

The ammo doesnt even make it to the stores, ask store owners if they are getting in the amounts of ammo they used to, they are not, yet the manufacturers say they are making ammo 24/7. Its a little hard to blame hoarders when the ammo doesnt exist to begin with. From an investment standpoint ammo is the best thing going, if you have money to invest.

[Kaiser7 33]

THIS...we..not the govt are the reason for the prices and the shortages...govt hasnt banned ammo..bought all the ammo..or any other excuse....we havent shown any ability to self restrain..so hence the hoarding and panic buying takes over...the anti's may be dumb..but they know enough that if they say a few words on TV about banning...the panic begins and we screw ourselves

 

I might tick a few people off saying this, but on a recent "This store has .22lr" thread, people were talking about how they figured out how to get around the 1 brick limit on .22, and how they were ordering 3,4,5 bricks of it. I was kinda annoyed myself they were buying so much because I got my order in a little bit late, and even though it was placed in late March, I have to wait until April 30th to get the ammo. I'm not even looking to sit on it, I want to immediately break it open and use it to teach my girlfriend, but it's annoying when you see people contributing to the problem.

[scorched 0]

I might tick a few people off saying this, but on a recent "This store has .22lr" thread, people were talking about how they figured out how to get around the 1 brick limit on .22, and how they were ordering 3,4,5 bricks of it. I was kinda annoyed myself they were buying so much because I got my order in a little bit late, and even though it was placed in late March, I have to wait until April 30th to get the ammo. I'm not even looking to sit on it, I want to immediately break it open and use it to teach my girlfriend, but it's annoying when you see people contributing to the problem.

Agreed. Except I havent gotten an order in.

[msokad 3]

Unfortunately, we are our own worst enemy. While we have seen this before, Sandy Hook and the fall out from from it made almost every gun owner hoard one thing or another.

[raz-0 1,259]

No, it has not always been like this. I've been shooting seriously since about 2000, owned my own firearms since 1997, and I've never seen it even close to this bad. From people who have been doing it longer, they say 1995 was close in terms of demand. 

[Sota 1,191]

2009/10/08 CCI 5200 $285.00 1000

2010/06/15 CCI 5200 $223.99 1000

2011/03/28 CCI 5200 $97.00 500

2011/06/27 P9HST1 $244.53 500

2011/08/04 AE9AP $215.00 1000

2012/01/04 AE9AP $224.00 1000

2012/01/06 CCI 3578 $200.00 1000

2012/06/06 AE9AP $230.00 1000

2012/06/11 FMJFP $220.12 1000

2012/09/27 CCI 5201 $225.00 1000

2012/12/10 CCI 5201 $220.00 1000

2014/03/23 FM9R115R $248.34 1000

 

 

Just to give some historical reference. I was shooting for $200/case and would go as high as $225 if I was running low. Note that's all for 9mm of various flavors (as you can see.)

[Sota 1,191]

Also just used this site...

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

 

to back-calc a value.

2000 = $150

2012 = $200

 

I don't know what that means, but it means something I guess.

If anyone has some historical purchase data they could post it and crunch it.

[Sota 1,191]

here's the only 2 purchases I've made of .45ACP...

 

2012/09/02 RWS10050 $357.17 1000

2014/04/20 FM45R230R $337.12 1000

 

yes the latter is reman'ed ammo, but that price isn't insane compared to the last purchase. granted 2 data points don't mean diddly, but there they are.

[jrfly3006 42]

IMO its simple..the anti's have a hard time getting their agenda written it law so instead they make statements about bans, future restrictions on imports etc etc and then let the internet and social media take over and and every Tom Dick and Harry shooter freeks out when they read a post somewhere and willingly fall into the scheme of "if we cant beat you we will make you empty your wallet for ammo that wont be banned but is priced stupid high out of fear"..we take the bait every time

[Sota 1,191]

if that's their plan then it's backfiring with me.

actually what it's done for me is to evaluate other options and alternatives for supply. And when prices come back down I expect those alternate supplies to be CHEAPER than what I was paying before. So in the end, I'll win.

[Newtonian 453]

And bricks of .22LR for $5 in the '70s and $10 in the 90's pretty much everywhere!

I remember Twinkies, two packs for ten cents at the Hostess outlet on 14th and Park in Hoboken, back in 1960. And my first year at private college was less than $4,000, room and board included. Same school is now $60k/yr.

 

Nyuk nyuk.

[Sota 1,191]

damn son. you OLD!

[average joe 5]

I refuse to pay that price.   Now I shoot arrows, air rifles, and do a heck of a lot of reloading.....

[Kaiser7 33]

if that's their plan then it's backfiring with me.

actually what it's done for me is to evaluate other options and alternatives for supply. And when prices come back down I expect those alternate supplies to be CHEAPER than what I was paying before. So in the end, I'll win.

 

 

I refuse to pay that price.   Now I shoot arrows, air rifles, and do a heck of a lot of reloading.....

 

 

Yeah, to be honest, I've been trying to raise money for a mini-30. I saw an opportunity to unload a small amount of my 8mm mauser surplus for a small profit, and am taking it. Initially I was going to sell off only 80rds. But as I thought about trying to replace them, I decided to sell off 140rds, and use the additional money to get 8mm mauser reloading dies. I already have the powder and  primers, i just need some brass and bullets, and in the end i'll end up paying less for the ammo. Got a bow for that reason too.

 

I will say that when I first got into reloading, I posted on the forums about wanting to load .223. I remember at least one person saying, "That's stupid, .223 is so cheap you're going to waste more money in components than you'll get out of it". That was about 6 months before the panic buying lol.

[raz-0 1,259]

I will say that when I first got into reloading, I posted on the forums about wanting to load .223. I remember at least one person saying, "That's stupid, .223 is so cheap you're going to waste more money in components than you'll get out of it". That was about 6 months before the panic buying lol.

 

And the reason I was unloading stuff at that was because I was stocking up on .223 components and upgrading parts of my kit to be more efficient.