Shortest length NJ compliant muzzle brake

[redtornado23 0]

I've searched a bit and haven't been able to find a definite answer - maybe someone else here has gone through the same exercise of finding the shortest length brake for their rifle that is NJ compliant...and works.  I was looking at the Spikes Smith Vortex Shorty, but read that it is in fact a very effective flash hider (even though it looks similar to my PWS556).  The PWS556 is 2.33" in length, so i guess anything less than that would be good.  I'm just looking to get as close to overall legal length (barrel + brake) without going over as i can.

 

thanks in advance for any info...

 

 

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

There is no regulation restricting the brake to a certain length. As long as it is permanently affixed and the length from breech to the end of the brake is equal to or greater than 16" you are good to go.

 

Likewise, there is no definition in the statutes of what constitutes a brake and what constitutes a flash hider. Number one in that quandry is what the manufacturer calls it. The rule of thumb is that if it is "open" on the end, it is a hider. If the exit hole diameter is close to the bullet diameter, it is a comp/brake. Again, that is rule of thumb - YMMV. Remember, you own firearms at your own peril in NJ.

 

BTW, if I were you I'd go slightly over 16" (and have).

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[redtornado23 0]

Bob...thanks for the reply.  I know about the 16" - I'm trying to find a short brake, something that if used with a 14.5" barrel will get me close to the magic 16" number without going over.  And yes, you're right about the lack of a definition.  that there is a "pinkie test" for something that is potentially illegal to own is ridiculous, but so is the fact that i still live in this state.

[carl_g 568]

Battlecomp or Dynacomp 1.5 inch brakes permanently attached will make a 14.5 legal length. I am sure there are others.

[Contrvlr 17]

I'm just looking to get as close to overall legal length (barrel + brake) without going over under as i can.

Fixed that for ya

[P4Plenty 1]

if you have a 14.5 inch barrel what you are looking for is something 1.5 inches or greater...IE the long dynacomp version and long battlecomps

[High Exposure 5,661]

The shortest is a 16" barrel and no muzzle device or a 14.5" barrel and any 1.5" muzzle device you want. As stated, it's the overall barrel length (federally mandated at 16" without SBR paperwork - which we are all aware there is no provision for in NJ) that is the guiding light here, not the length of the comp/brake/moderator/hider/etc...

 

If you are dead set on getting a muzzle device and are looking at putting one on a 16" barrel and want to remain as close to 16" as possible, look at the PWS TTO (Tim's Tiny One). It is essentially a PWS FSC556 with out the tines on the end. At 1.87" it is short and very effective.

 

It's the one on the left:

 

http://primaryweapons.com/muzzledevices/

 

The compact design of the TTO was produced for competitive shooters who were looking for the shortest possible package without sacrificing recoil reduction or compensation.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

Is your barrel measure to the very end of the muzzle?

If so, then you need to measured amount of the threaded barrel

that is inside the the break to get the correct total length.......

[redtornado23 0]

All, thanks for all of the feedback - this would be for a new build, so i am looking at picking up a 14.5" barrel and as close to a 1.5" brake (without going under - thanks!) as i can find.

 

High Exposure - thanks for tha pic and information...exactly what i was looking for.  that pws tto looks like it just might be the winner...1.87".  so i have .37" to try and get rid of....

[Steve_G 51]

Check out the YHM Phantom

[NYMetsFan86 9]

All, thanks for all of the feedback - this would be for a new build, so i am looking at picking up a 14.5" barrel and as close to a 1.5" brake (without going under - thanks!) as i can find.

 

High Exposure - thanks for tha pic and information...exactly what i was looking for.  that pws tto looks like it just might be the winner...1.87".  so i have .37" to try and get rid of....

 

do you intend on shavin' er down a bit?

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

All, thanks for all of the feedback - this would be for a new build, so i am looking at picking up a 14.5" barrel and as close to a 1.5" brake (without going under - thanks!) as i can find.

 

High Exposure - thanks for tha pic and information...exactly what i was looking for. that pws tto looks like it just might be the winner...1.87". so i have .37" to try and get rid of....

You need to allow for the threaded part overlapping. A 14.5 barrel and a 1.5 brake with 0.5 thread will yield an overall length of 15.5.

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Vlad G 345]

May I ask why you are so worried about a third of a an inch? Why in the name of your favorite deity would you risk a trip to the club fed and try to get that close to 16"? There is no imaginable benefit.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

[High Exposure 5,661]

May I ask why you are so worried about a third of a an inch? Why in the name of your favorite deity would you risk a trip to the club fed and try to get that close to 16"? There is no imaginable benefit.

^^^^ What he said.

 

Just put the TTO on the 16" barrel and call it good. You will notice zero difference in the way it handles.

[redtornado23 0]

i was just being an engineer.  i'm not assuming any positive or negative from tyring to hold the length to 16" and i'm not worried at all...just thinking out loud as i consider options for my next build.  and as jt custom and mr. stu pointed out, there are other things to take into consideration when calculating the almighty 16" - i'm just trying to put together as short of a barrel/brake assembly as i can while obviously keeping it legal.  PWS556 = 2.1" - (.5" overlap) = 1.6" + 14.5" = 16.1"  or 14.5 - (.5" overlap) = 14 + 2.1" = 16.1"

 

now to determine exactly how manufacturers measure their barrel lengths...

 

thank you all for the feedback

[Vlad G 345]

The question you need to ask is not how the manufacturers measures it, but how the ATF measures it. I believe the procedure is to shove a dowel down the muzzle until it touches bolt face and measure the length hidden by the barrel/comp/etc.

[n4p226r 105]

i think if you want to get a 14.5" labelled barrel just get any of the usual suspects.  my choice would be battle comp 1.5, if not get the BCM or FSC556.  pin it, call it a day. done  pick it based on any of your most desirable trait (muzzle control, flash suppression, side blast, looks).   1/8" should be the least important

[redtornado23 0]

vlad, true...i've read the overall length is measured from the breach face to the tip of the comp/brake - which is fine, but in reality how much of the advertised barrel length really ends up adding to the overall length, that's what i need to determine.  i'm not going to nitpick over an eighth of an inch, no matter what barrel & brake combination i go with, i'm fairly certain i can find a combination that works and works well - i just want to be as close to 16" as possible.

[n4p226r 105]

battlecomp specs list it as 2.125" and it adds 1.6" of overall length to give you 16.1" total on a 14.5"

 

to really confuse you, some 14.5" barrels are actually 14.7" if you want to be exact so you need to figure out what your actual barrel is first.  

 

 

so you are really looking for a comp with an overall length between 2.125 and 2.025.  i don't see any muzzle brakes or compensators that have less overall length than 2.125 and i assume that you may have a slight variation with that 

 

 

primary arms FSC 2.33"

lantac dragon 2.57"

smith enterprises 2.25"

BCM mod 1  (can't find overall length but said to add about 2")

etc.  

 

the great news is that if you are looking for a combination that works and works well, a 14.5" barrel and battle comp will be the best.  i can measure the overall length on my noveske with that setup but don't know how i would accurately measure the barrel .  

[redtornado23 0]

wsaraceni - thanks for all the numbers.  yeah, i'd be a little pissed off if i ordered something claiming to be 14.5" and it was 14.7", but that's me.

 

i'm guessing manufacturers have considered the magic 16" number and given the 14.5" "standard" have designed comps to be a length that when added to that barrel, will put the overall length slightly over 16".

 

in order to measure your setup you could close the bolt on your rifle and insert a cleaning rod down the barrel until it contacts the bolt face, mark off the tip of your comp on the rod, remove and measure.  at least that's what i've read is the easiest way to measure "breach" to tip.  i haven't done this on my current AR but will give a shot soon.  i know my barrel is a standard 16" mid-length bcm with an FSC556.  i'm interested to see what the measurement is...

[raz-0 1,259]

The question you need to ask is not how the manufacturers measures it, but how the ATF measures it. I believe the procedure is to shove a dowel down the muzzle until it touches bolt face and measure the length hidden by the barrel/comp/etc.

 

Uhh nope. They have a magic rod of measuring, and if it doesn't poke out right, you get to argue about reality. Which is why a lot of manufacturers have 14.7" barrels, and THEN add 1.5" of comp past the crown. Its also why when I had my smith cut down my shotgun barrel, he wouldn't go past 18.25" Most manufacturers do 18.5" 

[Vlad G 345]

I'm pretty sure we agree. Your magic rod, and my dowel are basically the same idea, and I'm not debating that their rod may or may not be in spec. This is why I said that chancing 1/3" is foolhardy in the face of the possible penalties. 

[n4p226r 105]

why all the effort for 1/10" though?

[redtornado23 0]

i don't think it's that much effort or a big deal to sort out the numbers...so far i've looked at a few websites, made some posts here and written a couple of emails to some vendors.  if 16" is a set number/rule all i'm trying to do is obey that rule while being close to tolerance. i'd be ok with being close.  .10" wouldn't bother me, but .25" would

[Vlad G 345]

i don't think it's that much effort or a big deal to sort out the numbers...so far i've looked at a few websites, made some posts here and written a couple of emails to some vendors.  if 16" is a set number/rule all i'm trying to do is obey that rule while being close to tolerance. i'd be ok with being close.  .10" wouldn't bother me, but .25" would

 

You are going about this all wrong. 

 

The law say 16". The law does not explain or specify how that is measured. It does not describe a tool, or a procedure. If you break this somewhat vague law you end up a felon with lots of time in jail. 

 

I'd suggest you consider what would bother your more, .25" at the end of your muzzle or a boyfriend named Bubba with bad personal hygiene. 

[n4p226r 105]

but you are trying to find a number that isn't going to be exact, and companies make up for that with their tolerances.  most of the muzzle brakes need to be timed correctly and with the crush washer and proper torque specs and shims to get that all right, you may have variances just based on where the threads start on the muzzle.  a battle comp on one companies rifle might be 16.1" and on another it may be 16.2".  all these companies err on the side of caution because everyone knows there isn't a difference between a 16.1 and a 16.25" barrel.  buy quality parts, pin, weld, and be happy.  don't even measure it.  

[High Exposure 5,661]

i don't think it's that much effort or a big deal to sort out the numbers...so far i've looked at a few websites, made some posts here and written a couple of emails to some vendors. if 16" is a set number/rule all i'm trying to do is obey that rule while being close to tolerance. i'd be ok with being close. .10" wouldn't bother me, but .25" would

If I handed you a carbine with a barrel length of 16.25" and told you it was 16.10" or even 16.00" you would never know the difference.

 

If you ran a carbine with a 16.1" barrel and then an exact replica with the only difference being a 16.25" barrel, you still couldn't tell the difference.

 

They would look the same to the unaided eye. They would feel the same when shot. They would drive the same on multiple target arrays. They would be equally accurate, equally maneuverable in a house, and equally effective.

 

In the real world a difference of .15" of barrel is not worth the time, aggravation, or energy of the amount if thought you are putting into this. Hell, in all honesty, a 1.5" difference isn't worth it.

[redtornado23 0]

there has to be a way of measuring length that would take into account a tight tolerance - and i never said i was going to err on the side of being short, but rather leave myself some wiggle room so that i'm over 16" - it's just by how much is the question.  and once i have a barrel and a brake, i'll be able to fit them together and measure...to some degree of certainty that i am legal be it a tenth, eighth or hopefully not much more.  it may take some figuring and some trial an error but i'm sure it can be accomplished.

 

i'm kind of surprised to see the apprehension.  this is a non-moving, real world physical thing - that CAN be measured and figured out. 

[redtornado23 0]

High Exposure - i hear you and you're 100% correct.  there will probably be no difference other than then the physical length.  i just don't think there is any great effort or worry in figuring this out...