acceptable gun shop markup?

[flank 12]

Well thank you everyone for the replies. Believe me I understand that local gun shops need to make a profit and I do realize that I cant expect a gun store to price match buds. As I did say this was the first time I stepped inside a NJ local gun shop to take a look around and I really just wanted an opinion on how others felt on that $800 price of the MP 15 sport. Was I being fed to the wolfs or was that price reasonable for nj?? Are there better deals around etc... And I wasn't just doing a feel her up locally and then buy online.

 

After reading this thread what keeps popping up in my mind as a similar situation is car shopping. Everyone wants to get the best deal right. Noone goes to the closest dealership and pays sticker price without shopping around right??? Maybe you don't even buy the car at the dealership where you took it for a test drive. Maybe you even look online to see what other people have paid for a similar model just to see if your getting ripped or getting a reasonable deal. Maybe you even buy the car out of state if you can get a better deal. Should we son' bitch them too for not supporting their local dealership?

[Maksim 1,504]

Well thank you everyone for the replies. Believe me I understand that local gun shops need to make a profit and I do realize that I cant expect a gun store to price match buds. As I did say this was the first time I stepped inside a NJ local gun shop to take a look around and I really just wanted an opinion on how others felt on that $800 price of the MP 15 sport. Was I being fed to the wolfs or was that price reasonable for nj?? Are there better deals around etc... And I wasn't just doing a feel her up locally and then buy online.

 

After reading this thread what keeps popping up in my mind as a similar situation is car shopping. Everyone wants to get the best deal right. Noone goes to the closest dealership and pays sticker price without shopping around right??? Maybe you don't even buy the car at the dealership where you took it for a test drive. Maybe you even look online to see what other people have paid for a similar model just to see if your getting ripped or getting a reasonable deal. Maybe you even buy the car out of state if you can get a better deal. Should we son' bitch them too for not supporting their local dealership?

 

I think there is a very valid point there... but also a bit difference.

 

Most car dealerships right now make zero to lose money on new cars, all in effort to make money on the service.  $150 for an oil change on a late model BMW. 

 

Most gun dealers do not expect you to come back to buy ammo from them...?  at least most avid shooters.

 

So they make money on the gun... not much else.

 

Most of the money really is on used guns, if they bought right.  B&M will typically have higher prices in order to cover overhead.

 

Ultimately, for most main production guns, I shop on service.

For collectible guns or unique items that dealers can't get... I will find it, and transfer it.

 

However... if you still with the forum vendors... you can seldom go wrong.

[RecessedFilter 222]

I think $800 is a little bit high for an M&P15 sport but realize (and someone else said it as well) that some of them have to be made NJ compliant, while some are already compliant. 

 

I am unsure where you are located but give a call to Jim Flynn (908)-537-6466. He is located on Route 31 in Glen Gardner (10mins south of Washington, NJ…15mins north of Flemington, NJ). I believe he was getting in M&P15 Sports for between $600-650 but I am unsure if prices have changed lately. He is a good guy and he will take care of you. He loves getting new shooters involved in the hobby. I have been dealing with him for a couple years now and he is top notch!

 

Also do a forum price request for it as well and see what NJGF vendors can do for you.

[mikka1 2]

I regret that I can't really share full results of one of the surveys the company I work for has done for several of our clients. Nonetheless, I can easily share in my own words what the main conclusion was ...

Essentially speaking, Google & Amazon changed the way customers think these days. Period.

You can try to argue with this statement, you might not like it, but I guess the easiest thing is to recognize this fact and do whatever is feasible to cater such a "new age customer". And the thing is that it's not about price level itself!!! It's about the whole experience.

Why do you think Amazon allows marketplace sellers to offer same goods on the very same page with their own merchandise? "They will be shopping around anyway, let's let them do this on our website while we still can "see" them instead of letting them go to Google.".

 

Another example - what I often see here and what makes me laugh for a second. Some (not all!) vendors here sometimes post their offers with "Call for Price" instead of actual prices. I am not speaking on behalf of others, I am just speaking for myself now, but I can tell honestly what I do when I see such a post ... I just laugh and close it.

And don't get me wrong - I do it not because I have something against these vendors - I only do this because in 2014 it is reasonably expected by customers that the price of non-individually tailored / customized merchandise / service will be announced upfront. I still can understand a vendor offering some rare vintage firearm to act this way, but what's the reason of offering Glock 26 Gen 4 and asking to call for the price, c'mon?! I know average price for this gun from Slickguns trend charts, I know Glock Blue label pricing upfront, so why should I call someone and spend even extra 5 minutes for something I can literally get instantly now?

 

So, this "shopping around" habit will not go away now. That said I see two main advantages of LGS compared to online stores:

1) It is "here and now" and not "2 weeks later"

2) Customer service - you see your client, you can help him to find a holster, ammo, scope, mount, sling, magazines, case, safe or cabinet (and have a bigger markup on those "value adding items" than you can probably have on the gun itself).

 

I actually experienced the similar thing myself when I was in the market for a bike - my local bike shop charged me a very reasonable price on a bike (only ~10-15% more than other bigger stores would have charged me for the similar model), but then literally ripped me off on brake pads, flashlight, bell and other accessories :-))) I will be unhappy if I have to spend $400 on a thing that I can order online for $350 (so, ~15% difference), but I might happily buy a bell for $10 here and now that I can order off ebay for $2 (400% difference).

 

If you fail any of those 2 components - ("Sorry, it's not in stock now, we can only backorder it and get to you in 2 weeks" or "No touching guns without FID"), then you probably just lost a customer no matter how good your price is...

 

And speaking of my experience - so far I bought ALL my guns but one (Blue label Glock) online and transferred them all through one of the forum dealers that I am absolutely happy with (and nothing - even ~1 hour drive to his place - can spoil my happiness :-) ). Partly this was because my experience with several brick and mortar gun stores was ... eh... quite far from what I would have expected ideally...

 

Not everything is about price :-)

[RecessedFilter 222]

Good post, Mikka.

 

I agree with the whole "call for a price" thing. I am unsure why some vendors and some online retailers as well do this. I do the same thing - when I see an item I am interested in and see "call for a price," I 'X' out the tab. I can't be bothered when there are plenty of other sources/vendors that I can see their price of. I understand it takes 1 minute to call and ask for the price, but I just feel it should be stated unless it's a used or C&R gun if anything.

[Oleg 8]

I thought maintenance is included with bmw cars, "free" for life.

I have a subaru dealership 5 walking minutes away. I will never ever give them my business even if it will cost me money. In fact I had to tow my car once and chose somebody 20 miles away instead of this dealership. It is an extra $100 or so in towing fees.

This is not because their prices are higher but because of their total luck of interest in having me as a customer. It seems like all their departments ( I tried to use all of them once ) are sabotaging customers.

 

I also buy all my bicycles and most of bicycle accessories from the same small store on a shore for many years now. They are not cheapest and 40 minutes away but they always have time to talk about my needs and always have a good advice. And I am just an average Joe rider, nobody special. I value this relationship more than money, time or convenience of shopping online. Price wise they are somewhat reasonably more expensive than deals that I can find on Internet. I guess there is a pain point in price difference where I would go somewhere else but I have yet to reach it.

 

The same goes for gun shops. With good customer relationship and experience paying more than the best deals on Internet feels just fine. But there is a pain point when you will feel stupid for paying this much. 
As an example available to me I have no choice but to pay twice more for ammo than what I can get on Internet. The moment I get FID this place will get no more of my ammo related business. Their gun's prices are somewhat high and sometimes ridiculously high. My guess would be that prices are negotiable and salesman wants some room to go down.

[mikka1 2]

Good post, Mikka.

 

I agree with the whole "call for a price" thing. I am unsure why some vendors and some online retailers as well do this. I do the same thing - when I see an item I am interested in and see "call for a price," I 'X' out the tab. I can't be bothered when there are plenty of other sources/vendors that I can see their price of. I understand it takes 1 minute to call and ask for the price, but I just feel it should be stated unless it's a used or C&R gun if anything.

 

Drez, some of the online retailers *sometimes* can not advertise prices of *certain* brands if they are lower than MSRP - that might be a condition of their agreement with a maker (not only in firearms), but that still does not explain local forum vendors not revealing prices for the whole set of guns they offer :-) For me it just screams "Ahhhh my price is so bad compared even to your closest LGS, so I can't write it here, as I will be LOLed all over it a minute after I post it" ))

Just j/k of course, maybe some of the vendors would chip in and explain what is really behind this "call for price" thing ...

[Oleg 8]

Some manufacturers tell their dealers that "you cannot display discounted price online".

 

Good post, Mikka.

 

I agree with the whole "call for a price" thing. I am unsure why some vendors and some online retailers as well do this. I do the same thing - when I see an item I am interested in and see "call for a price," I 'X' out the tab. I can't be bothered when there are plenty of other sources/vendors that I can see their price of. I understand it takes 1 minute to call and ask for the price, but I just feel it should be stated unless it's a used or C&R gun if anything.

[RecessedFilter 222]

I've heard about that. It's funny when the company tells prices for X, Y, and Z guns and then the person asking the price then goes online to their forum and reports back. I've seen that happen numerous times!

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

A couple weeks ago i just couldnt cough up $450 plus tax and nics when i could get it online for $350 free shipping and tax free. This was the same LGS that i purchased my first pistol from. Just because its a hot item right now, I just cant pay up an EXTRA $100 plus.

 

acceptable mark up is under $50 i can live with but not over $100. my dos centavos

[Maksim 1,504]

This actually brings up a very valid point about taxes.

 

All else being equal, and if you are honest, you are supposed to claim untaxed out of state purchases on your nj tax returns... so in theory, taxes should not be an issue.  I am not telling anyone not to.  If the internet taxation bill comes to fruition, it will greatly bring more shopping to brick and mortar, and now local.

 

Even Amazon, Staples and Best Buy match their prices, and often times, Wally and others will have it for less. 

 

I don't think I ever, in over 6 years actually bought anything from buds, simply because the local vendors were able to beat it or match it if need be.  Now would I expect a main line brand name shop in NJ match buds?  No... but I know the vendors here will do whatever is necessary to get close, nor have I had to bicker about a price of a new gun.

 

Used guns... different story. =P

 

Also as Mikka pointed out, Amazon and Google breed new consumers.  While it was "ok" and expected to haggle for a lower price, most people today, outside of shopping for a car or house, expect to pay the asking price and expect the best price up front.

 

Just a different way of doing business.

[Kaiser7 33]

Here's a really good blog posting from an awesome blog on the topic, explains the ins and outs of firearm markup. Also, for those that aren't familiar with retail, markup is typically 100%, so if you pay $10, the store likely paid $5 (exceptions being certain luxery products, and large chains which generally get lower prices due to economies of scale).

 

http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/search?q=retail

[GRIZ 3,369]

I have had probably a couple of hundred guns go through my hands in the 45+ years I've been shooting. I've purchased (or traded) most of my guns through private sales and LGSs. I've bought a few from larger gun shops. Never bought a gun at a large corporation store like Dicks or Cabelas. Never bought a gun on line.

 

LGSs seem to give you better prices to my experience. Examples? A S&W BG380 and a PPK/S were each only $25 more than Bud's price at a LGS. I bought a S&W MP15, MSRP $1100, large gun shop $900, LGS price was $750. These were both sponsors on this forum. A larger gun shop had a hot selling, hard to find rifle I've been trying to get for about 2 years. They sold it to me for 10% off MSRP. Not a smoking deal but most places were asking a premium of about $200 over MSRP.

 

Larger gun shops usually have more of an inventory of used guns as they are more likely to take trades and buy estate gun collections. LGSs have a lot of good deals too. Private sales are usually where you get your best used gun deals. I've seen a lot of private sales advertised where I thought the asking price was way too high. I also realize this is most likely because they paid too much to begin with.

 

There have been only 2 times where I bought a used gun and found it was in need of a repair. Those were from a larger gun shop that took care of the problem forthwith.

 

Supply and demand, volume, overhead, and all the things that affect other businesses affect the gun business. The answer to what is an acceptable markup on a gun is quite simple, to state anyway. What will the traffic bear, how much do I need to stay open, and how much do I need to support my family. Its all keeping these things in balance. I don't feel any moral obligation to patronize LGSs. I do want to find a good deal but also like to see the gun I'm actually buying and willing to pay a little more for that.

 

All that said LGSs usually give me what I want.

[Scrap 4]

It's funny you mention this... I was just having a situation about this yesterday.

 

I am planning on buying the Sig P226 MK25 that someone so graciously provided on the Hot Deals forum here, which is like $774.99 or something like that.  I called a local gunshop down here in FL where I live now, (the nicest in my small town area, although there are guns and booze EVERYWHERE down here.... Beers and wines in every store you walk in, stores that sell guns and signs that say GUNS on every street lol) and I asked about the transfer fee... I also explained I have never ordered a gun online before, most all my purchases were across a counter and not even special ordered.

 

The gent said, it's easy, $25 dollar fee, which I thought is great, and I mentioned, you don't have any problems with me ordering something you sell right?  He said, well of course I'd like to try to meet or beat the price but no, whatever you like.  I told him about the Sig, he looks it up on his computer and quotes me something like $950-$975.  I explained I can get it for the $774.99, he looks it up and basically calls me a liar.  "Thats a substantial bit less than I pay for it so.... I can't see how this is possible..."

 

I explained that I called the company myself, wanted to know what the deal was, because something too good to be true usually is etc, and they simply told me they bought 250 of them... and again, basically called a liar... "250 of them... at 775 ...that's nearly... " and as hes doing his figuring I just said it out loud, "It's almost 200K, $193 and change actually... but yeah, that's what they said..."

 

And of course he says ... "Listen, I have no problem taking a transfer for this.  If you think you can buy one for $774.99 then please go ahead and just call me when you are ready for the FFL info.  And I'll try my best to help you out.... if this works out for you...."

 

 

Now he was quite cordial and i met the guy a few weeks back, very nice guy, but he was clearly not buying it and thinking I was a bamboozler.  HOWEVER, this is the same gent who had a Colt .22LR on the shelf for $550 and when I asked how much because I was gonna impulse buy it (it felt great, just like a 1911 but in .22LR) he says $485... smoking deal I'll make you, $485!!!!  And i find them online for like $350.  So I know he works on a huge markup.  You have to make a living, I understand,  but don't think I'm a moron, know what I mean?

[MidwestPX 172]

Drez, some of the online retailers *sometimes* can not advertise prices of *certain* brands if they are lower than MSRP - that might be a condition of their agreement with a maker (not only in firearms), but that still does not explain local forum vendors not revealing prices for the whole set of guns they offer :-) For me it just screams "Ahhhh my price is so bad compared even to your closest LGS, so I can't write it here, as I will be LOLed all over it a minute after I post it" ))

Just j/k of course, maybe some of the vendors would chip in and explain what is really behind this "call for price" thing ...

That's actually dead on.  If Glock catches a dealer advertising a price for less than MAP, they'll get put on a Do Not Sell list which all of Glock's distributors enforce.  I've seen this happen with many brands.  Larger manufacturers like Glock hire firms to help police and enforce their MAP.   These people scour the internet, gunbroker, and even visit B&M stores to make sure MAP is being adhered to.  Glock goes so far as to say the price on the tag is considered advertising and Glock dealers are not allowed to price them below MAP.  That isn't to say they can't sell them for less (there are some brands that are like that too and it's completely legal) but it is most of why dealers put "Contact for price" or similar in ads.

[MidwestPX 172]

It's funny you mention this... I was just having a situation about this yesterday.

 

I am planning on buying the Sig P226 MK25 that someone so graciously provided on the Hot Deals forum here, which is like $774.99 or something like that.  I called a local gunshop down here in FL where I live now, (the nicest in my small town area, although there are guns and booze EVERYWHERE down here.... Beers and wines in every store you walk in, stores that sell guns and signs that say GUNS on every street lol) and I asked about the transfer fee... I also explained I have never ordered a gun online before, most all my purchases were across a counter and not even special ordered.

 

The gent said, it's easy, $25 dollar fee, which I thought is great, and I mentioned, you don't have any problems with me ordering something you sell right?  He said, well of course I'd like to try to meet or beat the price but no, whatever you like.  I told him about the Sig, he looks it up on his computer and quotes me something like $950-$975.  I explained I can get it for the $774.99, he looks it up and basically calls me a liar.  "Thats a substantial bit less than I pay for it so.... I can't see how this is possible..."

 

I explained that I called the company myself, wanted to know what the deal was, because something too good to be true usually is etc, and they simply told me they bought 250 of them... and again, basically called a liar... "250 of them... at 775 ...that's nearly... " and as hes doing his figuring I just said it out loud, "It's almost 200K, $193 and change actually... but yeah, that's what they said..."

 

And of course he says ... "Listen, I have no problem taking a transfer for this.  If you think you can buy one for $774.99 then please go ahead and just call me when you are ready for the FFL info.  And I'll try my best to help you out.... if this works out for you...."

 

 

Now he was quite cordial and i met the guy a few weeks back, very nice guy, but he was clearly not buying it and thinking I was a bamboozler.  HOWEVER, this is the same gent who had a Colt .22LR on the shelf for $550 and when I asked how much because I was gonna impulse buy it (it felt great, just like a 1911 but in .22LR) he says $485... smoking deal I'll make you, $485!!!!  And i find them online for like $350.  So I know he works on a huge markup.  You have to make a living, I understand,  but don't think I'm a moron, know what I mean?

 

If he's a smaller store, he may also not have access to as good of pricing as the seller.  Buying groups can add quite a few points to a dealer's bottom line but to get in, you have to show a history of multimillion dollar, profitable years, go through an interview, be voted in, etc.  It's a thorough vetting process though once cleared, can open up margins a bit, even on new firearms.

[Scrap 4]

Oh I absolutely understand the process, I spent 10+ years in the booze biz of NJ and had buying responsibility for not one but two different $13 million/year sales stores and two or three different $5 million + stores during my times.  NJ has one of if not the highest alcohol sales rates in the country and in NJ booze is BIG BUSINESS, and it's regimented and deal levels etc.

 

I am very familiar with how this type of thing works, and I would never fault anyone for making a living nor simply not being able to either access a price or going to/below a certain price level as a matter of principle.  I would never, I know they have to eat too.  HOWEVER, it's 2014, and since my freshman year of college in 1999 *AT LEAST*, you can use the internet do Google up (Yahoo up back then) how much things cost and how much other people are selling/charging for things in 10 seconds flat.  I just don't like the idea of someone either thinking I'm lying or not realizing me (and everyone else hopefully) are smart enough to check prices on things , etc.  But no sir I would never fault someone SIMPLY on price , I completely understand.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

Just in case the OP (or anyone else) is interested  - I have a brand new (in the box)

M&P 15 Sport for $680.00

 

just sayin'

[MidwestPX 172]

Another thing about being a B&M gun store is you live on the upsell.  You don't necessarily make your money on guns unless it's a hot item like a PMR30.  You make your money on accessories.  The guns draw people in and you sell them a cleaning kit, magazines, etc.  I won't divulge specific markup percentages but one of the reasons why over 90% of NJ gun stores I've cold called pick up our limited capacity mags is because we leave enough meat on the bone for them to justify investing in the product lines.  If you own a gun store and you aren't suggesting accessories for even guns you transfer, you're doing it wrong.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Another thing about being a B&M gun store is you live on the upsell.  You don't necessarily make your money on guns unless it's a hot item like a PMR30.  You make your money on accessories.  The guns draw people in and you sell them a cleaning kit, magazines, etc.  I won't divulge specific markup percentages but one of the reasons why over 90% of NJ gun stores I've cold called pick up our limited capacity mags is because we leave enough meat on the bone for them to justify investing in the product lines.  If you own a gun store and you aren't suggesting accessories for even guns you transfer, you're doing it wrong.

 

McDonald's doesn't make money on the burgers.......they make their money on sodas and FRIES.  At my business we always "asked for the fries".  LOL, that's how ya STAY in business!

 

Dave

[Maksim 1,504]

Another thing about being a B&M gun store is you live on the upsell.  You don't necessarily make your money on guns unless it's a hot item like a PMR30.  You make your money on accessories.  The guns draw people in and you sell them a cleaning kit, magazines, etc.  I won't divulge specific markup percentages but one of the reasons why over 90% of NJ gun stores I've cold called pick up our limited capacity mags is because we leave enough meat on the bone for them to justify investing in the product lines.  If you own a gun store and you aren't suggesting accessories for even guns you transfer, you're doing it wrong.

... and some nj stores double up the price of your mags. =)

[MidwestPX 172]

... and some nj stores double up the price of your mags. =)

Yeah, I've heard that.  I heard some places were charging $60+ last year during the drought.  I've had angry customers call/email in the past to ask/tell me to do something about it but honestly, that's not my place.  The "S" in MSRP is "Suggested". 

[bhunted 887]

McDonald's doesn't make money on the burgers.......they make their money on sodas and FRIES. At my business we always "asked for the fries". LOL, that's how ya STAY in business!

 

Dave

Tell them to add a couple slices of cheese and really see mark up. Or eggs, etc.... Prepared food industry is where profit lies. Oh and bar booze. And maybe go go dancers. Oh! And Lap dances....

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Tell them to add a couple slices of cheese and really see mark up. Or eggs, etc.... Prepared food industry is where profit lies. Oh and bar booze. And maybe go go dancers. Oh! And Lap dances....

 

 

Sent from my iPad 2 using T2 Pro

 

LOL!  Yep, YOU get it!  Coffee is on me next time at the Cafe John!

[Scrap 4]

^ that is REAAAAAAALY where the money is, brewed coffee for sale is one of the most profitable things you could hope to sell.

 

And I used to , for years and years, start every day with 24 oz. of 'gas station/mini mart' coffee for the drive to work and it went from like $1.29 in 2002/2003ish to 1.59, 1.79, up to like $2.50 now at places like Starbucks.    Now with the POSSIBLE EXCEPTION although ludicrous but the argument is made, POSSIBLY Starbucks and their fancy schmancy, microbrewed, local varietal, fair trade, organic and holistically renewably sourced super coffee and the prices going up, the cost of brewing a cup of coffee did not go up so much over the years.  Places simply get more and more money and I remember once at a bar account I had at a vineyard I worked at , a manager explaining how much money he'd make if everyone would order coffee.  Something like $1.75 a cup for something he figured cost somewhere between a nickel and a dime to make.

\

 

Coffee baby, coffee.  That's where the money is.  

[raz-0 1,259]

You are a price only shopper, and are entitled to be one - just don't expect to ever have that one on one relationship

with your own personal dealer and realize that someday, when / if all the little shops are gone, you will be delegated

to only dealing on-line and at the mercy of the prices that market will bear.................

 

OK, I was going to stay out of it until this. 

 

What am I getting besides price at the LGS? Please tell me. Because I'll tell you what I have gotten out of them. 

 

Can I get it now? Because I'll pay the "gotta have it now" tax to some degree, that is a valid service of a LGS. I'm not necessarily dealing in the very large numbers of guns, some folks have over the years. Leaving out the hard to find, used and discontinued, and custom stuff, there's about 11 guns left that I tried to buy from various LGSs. Of that 11, 3 were actually purchased at a LGS. 5 were actually at an LGS to fondle but I had to go used on one of them to afford it and nobody had used (won't fault anyone for that). That 5th one? Marked up just shy of $300 (THREE HUNDRED!!!!) over what a local FFL ordered me one for. The other 6? Nobody had them, and nobody was interested in ordering them for me. The reactions to TRYING to give them my business ranged from indifference to outright hostility. 

 

NONE of them had a decent gunsmith on staff. 

 

NONE of them were particularly good at answering technical questions. 

 

All but one of them were essentially unable to offer me anything make and model specific in terms of accessories to go with a purchase other than ammo. Spare mags? Nope. Order them? Nope. Holsters? Nope. Decent belt? Nope. Mag pouches? maybe. 

 

They offer me the fine experience of putting a frankly insulting price on the display tag and will let me haggle?  New stuff... its a commodity, realize that. It's not worth my time when the haggled price is a few bucks under MSRP. You wasted your time and mine with that. Used?  When you have it tagged as $30 over MSRP for a new one, why bother? 

 

You don't have it and you lie to me about what I am looking for AND what you have in inventory that you are trying to push on me? Ooh, that's worth a premium. 

 

You might send something back to the manufacturer for me no charge? Great. But the the local part of LGS really matters. You cna be 20 miles away and be an hour drive in NJ. Does that deal even save me anything once you account for gas, much less time? Especially when I have to go BACK there to pick it up rather than have it delivered to me?  It depends, and not all places will do that either. 

 

Will you do transfers for used, out of production items I found online? Yeah? It's HOW MUCH? And you want that in advance or you will refuse delivery because I might not come and get my $1000 piece of property I ALREADY paid someone for? Oh yeah, mmm the customer service. Oh you want me to order form you. OK, do you have a XXXX that was only made by company Y from 1984-1991 and I'm only interested in the ones from 1988 or later?  No? Shocking I say. SO how about that transfer price or at least let me pay rather than make 2-3 round trips to your store depending on NICS? Nope? Are you stupid, an a-hole, or is it some of both? 

 

I hear tales of customer service, but the place that came closest to having it for me was Ray's. Even then, every gun they'd go check in the back for 10 minutes to see if they had more, tell you the one in the case was the last one, and about 75% of the time put out a new one the next day. But overall it actually provided conveniences and wasn't too big a premium. 

 

I hear tales of lots of guns to fondle, but staying within a realistic hour drive during business hours, there were two places that have anything I'd have called an inventory. One was Ray's and it's gone. The other is so awesome I think of asking ot look at something, and I just go.. eh why bother it's less money and likely time to buy something sight unseen cheaply and resell it at a loss than to waste my time here and spend the rest of my day more stressed out from dealing with that crap. 

 

 

 

All the NJ FFLs without inventroy I ahve used have been pretty pleasant. Most are willing to give you pretty good prices on stuff and order accessories for you at a discount if you ask. 

[Zelig 21]

My LGS offers fair prices (about 10-15% off MSRP), great advice and will help you install items like rails and sights (bore sighting at no cost).  They understand my requirements and help me find solutions not just push products.  When  you shop it is more like a consultation than a retail purchase.