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Lalo

First AK Variant - Couple Questions

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So I finally picked up an AK Variant on a trade from a fellow forum member here and have a few questions hopefully someone can assist with. This rifle is mainly going to be a range toy as I'm going to rely on my ARs for training, home defense, SHTF scenarios, etc. I've already swapped out some of the existing furniture to my liking so for those of you who like the standard AK furniture and hate "tacticool" stuff please ignore the pic below. Rifle is an Izhmash Saiga in 762x39 imported by the RWC group.

 

imagejpg10_zpsfd464740.jpg

 

On to my questions:

 

1. Iron Sights. I probably wont get an optic for some time so for now I want to make sure I know how to use them properly. The rear sight leaf of the Saiga has 3x markers, 1,2 and 3 which correspond to 100, 200 and 300 meters. I understand the difference between meters and yards but for my instances (specifically the range I'll use), I'll be dealing in yards. It's my understanding that in order to sight the rifle in at close distances (25 yards), since the 762 bullet trajectory hits around the same area at 25yds and 200yds, I can set the marker to 2 and hit POA/POI at 25yds and be (somewhat) sighted in for 200yds. Then if I slide the marker to 1, I'll be close to zero at 100yds, and 3 for 300yds. Can someone confirm this is correct or can recommend a better way of sighting in the Saiga at 25 or 50yds? I plan on doing this, then fine tuning it @ 100yds while the marker is set to 1.

 

2. Sight leaf notches. In addition to the notches for the 1, 2 and 3 settings, the Saiga sight leaf has other notches before the 1 setting. What are these for and how are they used? Once sighted in (1 for 100, etc), is the previous notch for 50yds and the one before that for 25yds? Maybe they're not used at all? Should I just keep the notch on 1 for 100 and just offset my sight picture when shooting at 25yds and 50yds?

 

3. Optic mounts. Been reading about some possible options for my application. I know the Ultimak mount is very well liked and works but I'm not sure how I'm going to like the added weight to the front of the rifle or if it will affect my shooting at all. The other thing with the Ultimak is that I would have to either trim down or replace my existing handguard in order to fit the mount properly, plus I would have to re-zero my optic whenever I remove the Ultimak to clean the gas tube (I understand you don't really have to clean it often). I know there are plenty of other side-mounted optic mounts out there to choose from but I wanted to get people's thoughts on the Midwest Industries AK Mini Dot Mount, specifically the MI-AKMDM. From what I've read and seen reviews on, it's a nice solid mount that retains zero when tightened properly but it's not meant to be abused. The reason I'm leaning towards this is because I like the low profile of the mount itself plus it brings the optic towards the center of the rifle (instead of all the way to the back or all the way to the front) which could assist in the overall balance of the firearm. Since this is just a range toy I'm not coo concerned about it not being rugged and "combat proven" since like I said earlier, I'll rely on my AR's for training, HD, etc.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

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25 and 200 are not the same as far as I know or even close... 7.62x39 drops like a rock past 100...

 

But I read it on the internet so it must be true! Just kidding. Of course I'm reading info that's posted in other forums and blogs and its accuracy is going to be questionable hence the reason for my question. I know you're an AK guy (or maybe used to be), How did you zero your AK? How did you utilize the notches on the leaf, etc?

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I used to be an ak guy until I started to really experience the limitations of that caliber at any significant range... Not only was accuracy only marginal.... But bullet drop past 150 is pretty extreme... I got rid of my ak platform rifles and jumped into the ar world.... Far better platform... More accuracy and distance...

 

My 7.62 ak had a 100 yard zero...

 

Read the first post in this thread... Anyone that tellse you 25 and 200 is similar for a 7.62 ak should be viewed as someone that literally has no idea what the hell they are talking about...NAND more so someone that has never tried to shoot the gun at 200 yards or they would notice just how off they are...

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56803

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Thanks guys. So that takes care of #1. Set the marker to 100 and sight in at that location. The graph on that thread suggests a 50/100m zero should work so I can set the marker to 1, zero it at 50 and fine tune at 100.

 

So what about #2? Once I have it zeroed at 100 on notch #1, what are the previous notches for?

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Personally still love this platform and I can use it effectively. I wish their were more trainers here in NJ who were capable of training with it. All seem skittish  because its not their platform.  I would never use an AK for a 200 yard shot. 25-75 yards . Don't forget a Krebs Custom safety. Im waiting for mine.

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Personally still love this platform and I can use it effectively. I wish their were more trainers here in NJ who were capable of training with it. All seem skittish  because its not their platform.  I would never use an AK for a 200 yard shot. 25-75 yards . Don't forget a Krebs Custom safety. Im waiting for mine.

Man size targets all day inside 100 yards no problem.....

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I love the AK platform. I always have and always will. I don't really care what anyway says negatively about it. I understand it's pros and cons and have no issue with it. 

 

In terms of zeroing, I just zero mine in for 100yds and know that I will be about 1.5'' low at 50yds, and so on.

 

In terms of an optic mount and such, it all depends on your preference. I think microdots work very well on AK's such as the Aimpoint T1. The T1 on an Ultimak rail is sleek and since it's rather light, it doesn't change the front end of the rifle much. But if you put a 30mm tube on an Ultimak, like an Aimpoint Pro or Eotech or something, you will feel the difference a bit. I really like Ultimak rails, as they are perfect for mounting flashlights as well.

 

If you are looking at a scope or a larger red dot, I would suggest a side-mount like a Krebs or Midwest. I think RSP makes the best side-mount on the market. Super durable and high quality and they have numerous options available in terms of mounting. You can mount a microdot on there or put scope rings on and mount a scope or tube-like dot. You could also go the route of a railed dust cover. Texas Weapon Systems makes one and I know many people on AK forums have them. It sounds like they have a lower percentage of positive reviews though. The thing that sucks about dust covers is they are not rock solid. So when you weld a rail to them, or CNC it or whatever they do, the dust cover slides around during shooting and you end up losing zero. That is what some people complain about with the TWS, while others are very happy with it and don't have anything bad to say. So who knows.

 

The Krebs safety lever is nice but it is expensive for what it is. Many people just cut a rounded piece of metal and weld it to the safety lever. You have the same product for basically free.

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it's a drop in part, take a look here

+1

The beauty of this part is in it's simplicity. and honestly u will prob clean it once a year at best. I used ultimak on all of my rigs other wise I used Russian side mounted red dots. They are actually pretty good if u take ur time to learn them.

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So I think I have an idea on how I'm going to sight in the Saiga. I should be set with a 100yd zero on the #1 marking.

 

As far as what the previous unmarked notches that exist before the 1 setting, I dont know what those are for. I was assuming maybe they're for 50 and 25 distances but can't seem to find any info on that. Why would they put notches on the sight if they're not going to be used? weird.

 

Regarding the optic mount, I've been reading some not so good reviews on the MI mount I mentioned in my original post. Instead, people seem happier with the Attero Arms (http://atteroarms.com/). Its very similat to the MI mount but less moving parts. If/when I do decide on mounting an RDS on my Saiga, I might go with this. Only reason I'm not looking at the Ultimak is because I would then have to switch my handguard and add a 2 piece retainer or dremel my existing handguard.

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Lalo, I recently purchased the same gun (I believe), but I like yours a lot better.  Could you describe what you have done to it, either in a post or a pm?

 

Do you know if it's NJ legal?  What a shame that we have to worry about BS stuff like that.  For the life of me, I still can't figure out how something like having a collapsible stock or bayonet lug makes a gun more dangerous.

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Lalo, I recently purchased the same gun (I believe), but I like yours a lot better.  Could you describe what you have done to it, either in a post or a pm?

 

Do you know if it's NJ legal?  What a shame that we have to worry about BS stuff like that.  For the life of me, I still can't figure out how something like having a collapsible stock or bayonet lug makes a gun more dangerous.

Obviously I defer to the original poster but if you are asking about the stock if you look close enough you could see its pinned as they do over in the AR thread. Unless my eyes are really going bad  I could see the hole for the roll pin (to pin in place) just in front of the lever

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I disagree with Vlad about the practical max distance of 7.62x39 (i.e. able to hit a man-size target aiming quickly and without using a rest). I would put it more at 250-300 yards, but he is right about it not being a flat shooter at those distances. 

The limitations of 7.62x39 ammo aren't there with 5.45x39. I have an Arsenal SGL-31 and it compares pretty well with 223 ballistics and has less recoil. 

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Lalo, I recently purchased the same gun (I believe), but I like yours a lot better. Could you describe what you have done to it, either in a post or a pm?

 

Do you know if it's NJ legal? What a shame that we have to worry about BS stuff like that. For the life of me, I still can't figure out how something like having a collapsible stock or bayonet lug makes a gun more dangerous.

Yes the rifle is definitely 100% NJ legal (Stock is pinned, mag is a MidwestPX 15/30, non-threaded barrel) and It is also 922r compliant (Mag body/follower/floorplate, handguard, pistol grip, butt stock, hammer/sear/disconnector and trigger are all domestic).

 

The previous owner had the conversion done on it. He said he got the kit from Carolina Shooters Supply. Not sure which kit because their web site is always having image loading issues for me, but its the one that comes with all the Tapco guts plus the Tapco stock and pistol grip.

 

The other stuff you see on it now are just some existing items I swapped out. Magpul pistol grip, STR stock and magazinne, Vltor stock adapter (buffer tube) and Tapco Intrafuse tri rail forend with Magpul AFG.

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I disagree with Vlad about the practical max distance of 7.62x39 (i.e. able to hit a man-size target aiming quickly and without using a rest). I would put it more at 250-300 yards, but he is right about it not being a flat shooter at those distances. 

The limitations of 7.62x39 ammo aren't there with 5.45x39. I have an Arsenal SGL-31 and it compares pretty well with 223 ballistics and has less recoil. 

 

I disagree with the first half of your statement.. 

 

i completely agree with your second statement... 

 

 

the drop of x39 is so great that it is IMO very impractical at 300 yards.. can you hit something... sure.. but you are like 10+ inches at 250 yards... while that is not the most impossible shot in the universe.. I do not view it as being very practical...  couple that with the fact that it is not the most accurate platform to begin with... 

 

for the reason of being clear when I said "with an AK" I should have stated "with an AK in x39"

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So I took out the Saiga this past weekend to do some shooting. Unfortunately it got late on me so I was kind of rushed so i don feel like I sighted it in as well as it could have been. I was however able to hit the 8" shoot-n-see targets at 25 and 50 without much trouble and was ringing steel at 100 about 50% of the time. I know it probably needs some adjustments so next time I take it out I'll focus on getting smaller groups consistently at 100.

 

Definitely a different feel than the AR but I like it a lot!

 

Saiga762_zpsc41ca3bd.jpg

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You need to get some 30rders for when you play at EFGA!

 

Nice picture man. Do they finally have steel plates there? I know they denied using your own which was lame.

If I had a place to keep them, I totally would.

 

These are the plates they put up at the rifle range. Pic was taken about 2 weeks ago. I'm guessing by now, they're probably mostly destroyed.

 

85fd0158bac3f50597458603f6e6eedd_zps99e9

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1. Do a correct zero so that you can use the rifle's adjustable leaf at all ranges...IE 25M zero. You can also switch leaf sights out and get a 0-1000m leaf

 

3. Run an ultimak with a TRS-25 or primary arms sight. You can co witness. Its great. If needed, trim the top handguard in a bandsaw do you get a straight cut. I have a tapco galil handguard and the ultimak slips inside of it.

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