Why do AR lowers not need an OAL of 26"?

[SgtToadette 59]

I feel like the answer to this is really obvious, but I can't figure it out for the life of me. Pardon my ignorance or poor reading comprehension skills.

 

Half the reason I ask is because I want to know how far I can go with a "free-state" AR build before it goes illegal.

 

EDIT: Statute reference are appreciated.

[T Bill 649]

Same as state law.  No barrel less than 16" and overall length not less than 26", otherwise it's a SBR.  AR lowers are not a complete functioning rifle therefore length at that point is not a concern.  Put it all together it is.

[SgtToadette 59]

Does that make 9 inch uppers illegal regardless of whether or not it is installed on a lower?

[PK90 3,570]

Only if you have the parts to make a complete rifle.

[SgtToadette 59]

So, hypothetically, a 9in upper on a stripped lower is good to go?

[PK90 3,570]

Sure

[Heavyopp 167]

As long as you don't have a lower in your house --  Doesn't matter if that lower is on another gun or not

[kman 56]

So, hypothetically, a 9in upper on a stripped lower is good to go?

 

In my opinion that is too close for comfort, not only in New Jersey, but with respect to the feds as well.

 

You can push the limits of the law if you want but the criminal justice system is a harsh place to risk placing yourself in.

[SgtToadette 59]

So I understand that once a rifle, always a rifle, and if a lower is transfered as a rifle I can't make it a pistol. But if a rifle is transfered as a pitol then it is subject to state and federal pistol regulations.

 

But what exactly is a lower? Is it a rifle by default? Or is it just a firearm?

 

The fact that I need to ask this question demonstrates the absurdity of the law, but it's an interesting thought experiment.

[raz-0 1,259]

So I understand that once a rifle, always a rifle, and if a lower is transfered as a rifle I can't make it a pistol. But if a rifle is transfered as a pitol then it is subject to state and federal pistol regulations.

 

But what exactly is a lower? Is it a rifle by default? Or is it just a firearm?

 

The fact that I need to ask this question demonstrates the absurdity of the law, but it's an interesting thought experiment.

By default, it is "other" these days. At least on the federal forms.

 

Also, I would argue that possessing a short barreled upper unless you have either no lower receiver or a complete pistol receiver would put you in some peril with regards to constructive intent. But that's my perspective from the position of an abundance of caution.

 

 

 

 

[PK90 3,570]

An AR lower [receiver] is transferred Federally as an "other". It will transfer in NJ to you as such, however, you will need to use a FPID or Permit. IMHO, if you use a FPID, it can only be built into a rifle. If you use a Permit, it can be either. However, prior to the build, if you take it out of NJ, you can build it either way. If you are contemplating building a pistol in the future in NJ or out, I suggest using a Permit. Keep in mind, a non-polymer lower will not make weight to be NJ legal.

[Crusher 0]

If one lives in a free state and owns an AR pistol and an AR rifle that is not considered constructive intent.,,,,,right? If this is true then how can just having a lower on another completed rifle be a problem?

 

FWIW, PK90, I'm on my way to joining you in the free lands of AZ. I'm counting down the days.

[MidwestPX 172]

Federally speaking, if you have the parts to make an illegal configuration as well as a legal one, it cannot be presumed that you will make the illegal one. There is case law/precedent to this effect involvoing T/C.

[SgtToadette 59]

Alright. So if I'm following this correctly, the reason an AR15 lower does not require OAL compliance is because it is not a rifle, but instead an 'other'. This then begs the question of how much we can add to the lower before it becomes classified as either a pistol or a rifle and consequently becomes subject to the respective regulations.

 

Is the classification dependent on function as T Bill suggested? If so, would I presumably be able to finish the lower minus, say, the receiver extension?

[PK90 3,570]

IMO, if it goes bang, or has the possibility to go bang, it is a firearm.

 

I am not sure ATF has a ruling on when a frame/receiver becomes a firearm.

[Vlad G 345]

So ... what counts as 26" anyway? An AR broken down in two halves is likely to be shorter then 26" anyway unless using a 20" barrel.  If that isn't illegal, then you could theoretically make a molded plastic piece that is 26" and attaches to the lower (worlds longest receiver vice block?). If that is legal then attaching a long dowel with ducttape should also make it 26".  And if that is legal, and having the upper and lower separated is legal, then as long as I have a broom and some string in the house the stripped lower is legal.

 

Following these to the illogical extremities is pointless, none of the gun laws make any sense if you look at them hard enough.

[SgtToadette 59]

So ... what counts as 26" anyway? An AR broken down in two halves is likely to be shorter then 26" anyway unless using a 20" barrel.  If that isn't illegal, then you could theoretically make a molded plastic piece that is 26" and attaches to the lower (worlds longest receiver vice block?). If that is legal then attaching a long dowel with ducttape should also make it 26".  And if that is legal, and having the upper and lower separated is legal, then as long as I have a broom and some string in the house the stripped lower is legal.

 

Following these to the illogical extremities is pointless, none of the gun laws make any sense if you look at them hard enough.

 

Your post made me laugh Vlad. I hear you. Reminds me of the quote: "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

[raz-0 1,259]

An AR lower [receiver] is transferred Federally as an "other". It will transfer in NJ to you as such, however, you will need to use a FPID or Permit. IMHO, if you use a FPID, it can only be built into a rifle. If you use a Permit, it can be either. However, prior to the build, if you take it out of NJ, you can build it either way. If you are contemplating building a pistol in the future in NJ or out, I suggest using a Permit. Keep in mind, a non-polymer lower will not make weight to be NJ legal.

 

 

what about the light magnesium lowers? (5.8oz for the magnesium, somewhere around 5oz and change for the plastic) we live in the golden age of black rifle legos for adults.