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Newtonian

Even when it's legal

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Vlad,

You are making a lot of assumptions here. First all OC cops are capable of defending themselves from being disarmed.

 

Big error. Many maybe, but you will always meet some bigger stronger or more skilled.

Trained? Like the standard Academy firearms training and quals?

As to detering a crime you make the assumption its a planned crime. Most crime now is crime of opportunity.

For the opportunistic criminal an armed person is a big Movenign

 

http://izismile.com/2010/08/06/such_fat_cops_25_pics.html

 

 

no.. not ALL cops are highly trained elite combat fighters... sure.. some are lazy out of shape overweight lazy  people that limped through the process and realistically probably shouldnt be carrying a gun.. BUT they have at least been trained to retain the weapon... they have at least been trained at some level of hand to hand combat... they at least have some knowledge of how to physically handle an attacker... they are also walking around with a bullet proof vest on...

 

MANY open carriers have NONE of that going for them..many have not seen a gym in 20 years... let alone know how to put someone to the ground and restrain them..

 

you can think its a generalization all you want.. but the vast majority of officers (between gear, training, bullet proof vest, etc.) are more prepared for an altercation than the vast majority of open carrying gun owners.. 

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no.. not ALL cops are highly trained elite combat fighters... sure.. some are lazy out of shape overweight lazy  people that limped through the process and realistically probably shouldnt be carrying a gun.. BUT they have at least been trained to retain the weapon... they have at least been trained at some level of hand to hand combat... they at least have some knowledge of how to physically handle an attacker... they are also walking around with a bullet proof vest on...

 

MANY open carriers have NONE of that going for them..many have not seen a gym in 20 years... let alone know how to put someone to the ground and restrain them..

 

you can think its a generalization all you want.. but the vast majority of officers (between gear, training, bullet proof vest, etc.) are more prepared for an altercation than the vast majority of open carrying gun owners..

But I thought you were supposed to AVOID an altercation.

 

Concealed Police work (be it firearms, or even a Radar car behind a Billboard) are meant to catch people breaking the law. See a cop standing there in uniform with his firearm, go somewhere else to commit a crime. Don't see cop (undercover suit jacket and CC) try a crime and get caught.

A marked car with light blazing slows traffic to the speed limit, a unmarked car catches someone speeding.

 

Extending this to civilian CC or OC, Say you are in a Dunkin Donuts getting a coffee, guy walks in sees OC firearm. Thinks "OOOOOPPPSSSSSS COP". Turns and leaves. No incident, all is well.

 

Now say you are in a Dunkin Donuts getting a coffee, guy walks in doesn't see CC firearm. Thinks "lets do this", draws on the cashier. What do you do? You are now in a shootout condition. How the tactical approach helped you?

 

I don't quite get it.

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But I thought you were supposed to AVOID an altercation.

 

Concealed Police work (be it firearms, or even a Radar car behind a Billboard) are meant to catch people breaking the law. See a cop standing there in uniform with his firearm, go somewhere else to commit a crime. Don't see cop (undercover suit jacket and CC) try a crime and get caught.

A marked car with light blazing slows traffic to the speed limit, a unmarked car catches someone speeding.

 

Extending this to civilian CC or OC, Say you are in a Dunkin Donuts getting a coffee, guy walks in sees OC firearm. Thinks "OOOOOPPPSSSSSS COP". Turns and leaves. No incident, all is well.

 

Now say you are in a Dunkin Donuts getting a coffee, guy walks in doesn't see CC firearm. Thinks "lets do this", draws on the cashier. What do you do? You are now in a shootout condition. How the tactical approach helped you?

 

I don't quite get it.

 

 

there were countless people in that Walmart in Las Vegas when those two shooters ran in after killing two cops... countless... none of them died that day... the shooters ignored them all... well all but one... when that concealed carrier drew his weapon... and the gun became visible... the bad guys didnt run.. or hide.. or surrender.. they blew his brains out.. the people that were not threats to the shooters lived... because they were not threats.. but the good guy with a gun died..

 

when you deal with a criminal you have NO idea how violent they are.. what drugs they are on.. or what their end game is.. if you are carrying a gun.. you are in some cases increasing your likelihood of being a target.. you can not believe that if you want.. but it is the truth..

 

I will give you this.. I am sure there are TONS of criminals that would pick an easier target.. or simply move on.. but I am also sure there are criminals that would kill you simply because you are carrying.. to eliminate you first before committing the crime.. to take your weapon.. for whatever reason..  and if you are not ready to fight 100% of the time... if you are not capable of retaining your weapon... have some form of hand to hand combat training.. in reasonable good physical shape.. you are taking your chances.. 

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Now say you are in a Dunkin Donuts getting a coffee, guy walks in doesn't see CC firearm. Thinks "lets do this", draws on the cashier. What do you do? You are now in a shootout condition. How the tactical approach helped you?

\

If you're carrying discreetly (the new term, like "climate disruption") you're in a position to take APPROPRIATE action that is in line with your training and comfort. If they guy is threatening and you are confident that you can shoot him you do. If he's waving the gun around and seems alert maybe you don't. You have options when you're concealing, or when the bad guy doesn't see your gun. You have many fewer options when he walks in and sees somebody getting up to pay his tab, momentarily losing situational awareness, with a gun strapped to his waist. If I were high on crack and I needed a fix that's the guy I'd shoot first, no doubt. 

 

Once again: I have no moral or legal problem with open carry of shouldered or holstered firearms. My criticism is from the perspective of tactics only. 

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If you're carrying discreetly (the new term, like "climate disruption") you're in a position to take APPROPRIATE action that is in line with your training and comfort. If they guy is threatening and you are confident that you can shoot him you do. If he's waving the gun around and seems alert maybe you don't. You have options when you're concealing, or when the bad guy doesn't see your gun. You have many fewer options when he walks in and sees somebody getting up to pay his tab, momentarily losing situational awareness, with a gun strapped to his waist. If I were high on crack and I needed a fix that's the guy I'd shoot first, no doubt. 

 

Once again: I have no moral or legal problem with open carry of shouldered or holstered firearms. My criticism is from the perspective of tactics only.

Ah so your opinion is that you want a confrontation to occur? You are confident you can shoot him even though he is not threatening you, It is not then a classic case of self defense you are now "The Vigilante", your life savings are gone trying to prove you acted in defense. Never mind the civil suit of "My poor boy didn't deserve to die" parents. NO chance that will be expensive.

 

I'm am not intentionally ragging on anyone. I just tired of hearing CC is so much better when no one can provide evidence that it actually is better. I'm not saying OC is better, or CC is bad.

 

I am pointing out, most thugs are thugs of opportunity. Agreed? They are much more likely to move on if there is any evidence that they might not get away with it. The best encounter is one that doesn't happen.

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Ah so your opinion is that you want a confrontation to occur? You are confident you can shoot him even though he is not threatening you, It is not then a classic case of self defense you are now "The Vigilante", your life savings are gone trying to prove you acted in defense. Never mind the civil suit of "My poor boy didn't deserve to die" parents. NO chance that will be expensive.

 

I'm am not intentionally ragging on anyone. I just tired of hearing CC is so much better when no one can provide evidence that it actually is better. I'm not saying OC is better, or CC is bad.

 

I am pointing out, most thugs are thugs of opportunity. Agreed? They are much more likely to move on if there is any evidence that they might not get away with it. The best encounter is one that doesn't happen.

I don't know why I'd be arguing with a golden retriever, but let me try.

 

I don't have any stats on whether CC is better than open carry. But even I, who am not a very good shooter, understand that removing a threat is the first step in carrying out a crime. So if you're carrying, and he sees you, and he hasn't had a fix in 6-7 hours, he will shoot you before you realize what's happening.

 

The typical criminal who walks into a Dunkin Donuts bent on mayhem, high on some shit, who sees someone carrying a gun might in fact turn away (to rob another place). Maybe 80-90% of the time they do. The other 10% the legal gun carrier has to deal with the problem, WHETHER HE WANTS TO OR NOT.

 

When concealed, they can just sit by while they rob the register. Which, actually, is the best outcome.

 

To me, not worth it. I have no delusions about stopping a crime in progress. I have no interest in being singled out by a crackhead. I'm no superman.

 

Disclaimer: open carry is up to you. Your choice when it's legal. Only objection is tactical.

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