Gun modification affects Home Defense status

[czechmark 5]

Can anyone confirm that a gun modification (i.e., an improved trigger pull) would disqualify that gun for use as Home Defense?

 

(You all hear all kinds of ideas at the range. . . . )

[Malsua 1,422]

It's all about your comfort level. 

 

I personally would not use a modified firearm for home defense and I don't.    There is no legal or moral reason not to use one, it's simply that I feel more comfortable with my unmodded H&K than some of the others in which I've modified the triggers.

 

If you're absolutely certain that you've not in any way made the firearm less reliable, go for it.    I would say that 1k rounds without an issue would be good enough but it's all opinion.

[n4p226r 105]

i think home defense is significantly different than carry.  i'd disqualify something from carry on the basis of it being highly modified.  thats also depending on the modification.  a glock with a different connector, an M&P with an apex kit are fine to me.  something with a 3# match trigger i'd leave home

 

at home though, if its a gun in a drawer, i'd say whatever goes

[bhunted 887]

How about a different take. No mods except for improving sights if needed. Most are not going to do well under stress and may even forget proper trigger safety. Wouldn't want to have a very sensitive trigger and wind up wounding or even killing a family member because you twitched. Keep a good flashlight with you and you ate good to go. Imho of course!

[Shane45 807]

I don't worry about mechanical modifications as long as they are not unsafe. The modifications that would give me concern are ones that could be used to paint an ugly picture of you in court. Punisher grips, grim reaper grips, headshot skull basepads come to mind.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

I have only done the bare minimum of mods to my guns that help me perform better in IDPA. Even in competition safety and reliability are paramount so I have no qualms using these for a social occasion should one occur.

 

I do not have anything tacti-molon-labe-zombie-cool and thus avoid the character assassination some folks worry about.

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Lalo 13]

I think OP might be talking about the legal ramifications if one were to use a modified firearm in a self defense situation at home... Not if one should/should not use a modified firearm.

[illy 1]

I think OP might be talking about the legal ramifications if one were to use a modified firearm in a self defense situation at home... Not if one should/should not use a modified firearm.

Mas Ayoob on modified triggers in defensive shootings: http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/50734-xd-trigger-work-ccw-8.html#post753984

 

tl;dr: Don't run a lighter than stock trigger in your HD guns.

[czechmark 5]

I think OP might be talking about the legal ramifications if one were to use a modified firearm in a self defense situation at home... Not if one should/should not use a modified firearm.

Yes, this was my question. Sorry for the confusion. I was told that use of a modified gun for home defense would nullify any legal defense.

[czechmark 5]

Mas Ayoob on modified triggers in defensive shootings: http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/50734-xd-trigger-work-ccw-8.html#post753984

 

tl;dr: Don't run a lighter than stock trigger in your HD guns.

Thanks for the link, Alex!

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

Yes, this was my question. Sorry for the confusion. I was told that use of a modified gun for home defense would nullify any legal defense.

I could only see that if your defense was that the gun went off by itself and you did not intend to fire the shot. If that's your defense you're probably SOL anyway.

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Sandy 44]

Personally , I would not use a modified gun as my self defense gun , so I don't use them period. I particapte in any sports or what not as an affordable fun supplement to training so I have no interest in shooting anything lightened , etc. 

There is no specific law pertaining to altering guns , but the law gurus advise against it. Especially in a striker fired with no active safety on it - the trigger pull poundage is considered a safety related part of the design .

Technically , a Prosecutor could have a field day if you defend yourself with a twitch trigger ...IF charges are pressed in the first place , IF it goes to trial , IF they do an autopsy on your guns. There are at least 10 "ifs" before your gun is dissected and criticized ( most likely) .

At the end of the day you have to pick your own position,risks with these things. People will give you advice here , tell you to chill out and not worry about it , then throw you a bake sale maybe for legal funds but they wont pay your mortgage or tuck your kids in at night. Fact.

IIRC , it says right on some of the Apex match grade trigger upgrades " not recommended for self defense/carry purposes" .

[Sandy 44]

tacti-molon-labe-zombie-cool

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

Now I know what to put on that personalized T Shirt I have been wanting to design

[lunker 274]

Yes, this was my question. Sorry for the confusion. I was told that use of a modified gun for home defense would nullify any legal defense.

Nullify is a strong word. It sounds like gun store advice, and is worth what you paid for it. I would rather rely on rough motor reflexes if I am woken up in the middle of the night than worry about the break on a competition trigger. My quick access safe alternates between Glocks and S&W revolvers, all stock except for sights.

[mipafox 438]

My trigger is stock but I replaced the handguard with a quadrail and 4 rail mounted bayonets.

[Shane45 807]

First, lets clarify if we are talking about a criminal case or a civil case. In a criminal case, either you were justified in using lethal force or you were not. I am well aware of what some "gurus" say. But I could never find any case law examples to support it. If anyone has a case law example, I would love to see it. Whenever this topic comes up, I ask for examples but no one ever seems to be able to produce any.

[mipafox 438]

First, lets clarify if we are talking about a criminal case or a civil case. In a criminal case, either you were justified in using lethal force or you were not. I am well aware of what some "gurus" say. But I could never find any case law examples to support it. If anyone has a case law example, I would love to see it. Whenever this topic comes up, I ask for examples but no one ever seems to be able to produce any.

Don't you have civil protection for a justified shoot in your home in NJ? I thought you had castle doctrine.

[Shane45 807]

Yaknow, I am not that well versed in NJ Castle Doc law AND I SHOULD BE! I will need to correct that. I think its Wisconsin that has Castle Doc that indemnifies you from civil liability if your shoot is deemed justified. What is it out in PA?

[Zeke 5,504]

Nj does not have Castle Doctrine.

[mipafox 438]

Yaknow, I am not that well versed in NJ Castle Doc law AND I SHOULD BE! I will need to correct that. I think its Wisconsin that has Castle Doc that indemnifies you from civil liability if your shoot is deemed justified. What is it out in PA?

I think many states (most?) do.

 

Yes, PA does. In your home, connecting improvements, in your car, business.

 

Presumption you are in fear for your life and no duty to retreat also extends to any place you are permitted to be when faced with a weapon, I assume defense against civil suits does as well but I have to check that part...

[Lalo 13]

Food for thought: I remember reading posts from people that feared using Hornady's Zombie Max ammo for their self defense firearms. They feared that if something were to happen and they killed/injured an assailant with it, their sanity could be questioned because they are using ammo "designed" for zombies.

[Shane45 807]

I cant find a reference if this is passed and current law. Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

 

ftp://www.njleg.state.nj.us/20082009/A0500/159_I1.PDF

[Malsua 1,422]

Nj does not have Castle Doctrine.

 

Yes it does.

[mipafox 438]

 

I think many states (most?) do.

 

Yes, PA does. In your home, connecting improvements, in your car, business.

 

Presumption you are in fear for your life and no duty to retreat also extends to any place you are permitted to be when faced with a weapon, I assume defense against civil suits does as well but I have to check that part...

 

 

OK, this is the part the 2011 HB 40 update to Castle Doctrine in PA modified. Civil immunity not only applies to Castle Doctrine and PA Stand Your Ground Lite in PA, but most justified self defense and defense of property:

 

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=42&div=0&chpt=83&sctn=40&subsctn=2

[T Bill 649]

Shane45, betcha never got out of Law and Public Safety Committee.  See no reference to it after being referred to committee.

[Shane45 807]

Disappointing . OK so is East Stroudsburg really that bad in PA? Some nice houses for reasonable money there.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

What would we have to talk about here if it weren't for things guys say at the range, or "advice" we get from our LGS's and LEO friends?

[T Bill 649]

Yes, sorry to say "The 'Burgs" are not what they used to be.  Right now just an economically depressed area with a lot of transplants with bad attitudes.  Some nice areas but not the PA country town it once was.  Poconos are not the country anymore, just a NY bedroom community misplaced by 75 miles.

[Sandy 44]

What would we have to talk about here if it weren't for things guys say at the range, or "advice" we get from our LGS's and LEO friends?

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Lol!  I never saw that one before.