PSA for New Owners

[Sandy 44]

About buying safes.

When we purchased our first firearms , the first hand gun safe we bought was a Stack On biometric one that you can get on Amazon Prime for about 120 bucks shipped. Having learned they are not  the best we have since purchased others that are better.
 

It is still bolted to my floor though and I keep things in it that are not guns but I don't want touched by the kids. Like my training flashlights , extra magazines , holsters and such that are leaded up.  Well , last night I wanted to get into it and the thumb pad just died . No lights , no battery warning had been going off , nothing. Just died in a split second.
 

So I went to my class , came home , looked up how to break into it on youtube , and was in the safe rather quickly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA-g-BNTCtE
 

Then I closed it again and simply wailed on it with a rubber mallet and it popped right open ..admittedly after I worked up a sweat . A kid kicking it hard could have accomplished the same thing. Yes , it is bolted to the floor.
 

Don't buy these Barska knockoffs . Especially if you have kids. Especially if you don't want to walk in on a burgler who just broke into your safe and is now holding your gun.  It just is not worth the savings in this departemnt.

[djg0770 481]

I much prefer "used and abused" commercial grade safes.

 

http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/for/4600961176.html

 

http://cnj.craigslist.org/bfs/4615426977.html

 

Yeah, they're heavy, DAMN heavy.  If you watch craiglist though you will be able to find a good deal here and there.  Most of these are dial combination safes.  You're not going to break into them with a rubber mallet.  In addition, they're not "residential security containers". 

 

some search terms:

Mosler

Meilink

Amsec

Yale

Diebold

Herring Hall Marvin

[MidwestPX 172]

Buy once, cry once. People spend thousands on their guns yet balk at the idea of investing in a good safe. I never understood that. Funny aside but when the BATFE was here conducting a compliance inspection, one of the IOIs noted that our primary safe actually qualifies as an explosives locker. And here I am, thinking about getting a type 10 FFL and explosives license...

[Sandy 44]

I think Amsec got destroyed on the reviews for that too.

[djg0770 481]

I think Amsec got destroyed on the reviews for that too.

 

Yes, on their residential product.

 

If you want really high end, check out ISM, they make safes for jewelers.

[Howard 538]

Years and years ago I heard a saying which has stuck with me: "Locks are not to keep thieves out, they are merely to keep honest people honest".  Anyone that truly wants to get your stuff will, the question is how difficult do you need to make it for them?  You need to be able to come up with a good answer to that in order to determine what type of containment vessel you want to invest in.

 

I've got a Barska "locking cabinet" (aka safe) that has a keypad, biometric reader, and keypad.  Speaking of keypad, didn't your's have a key to open it Sandy?

 

I don't consider these things to be true safes, rather they are fairly secure locking containers.  They will keep a kid out, they will keep the maid out, they will keep a casual person from gaining access, but they will NOT keep a determined individual with a little time out.  But then again, if someone has time they will get through anything.

[Sandy 44]

Keypad was dead too , keys long gone. Like I said there was nothing critical in it . My kids coyld easily do what I did to get into it .

 

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk

 

 

[Sandy 44]

Sorry hate phone posting . I would say the stack ons are good for nothing , Barska much better

 

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk

 

 

[lunker 274]

My biometric floor safe is only to keep my gun out of reach of kids and strangers. I know it would be gone if a burglar had sufficient time. 

 

Sandy, do you mean that first your safe was a Barska knockoff? Or that Barska was a knockoff of a better brand? 

 

Never mind, just saw your last post. 

Thanks

[Howard 538]

Mine is the Barska, but I don't consider it a safe, rather a deterrent.  My wife would go absolutely ape shit if I bolted it the floor, so I have done the next best thing.  It sits in a corner next to my dresser.  I have bolted a pair of 8' long 2"x"4's to it that run behind my dresser.  The only way someone would get it out would be to move the heavy dresser and then either cut the two-by-fours or try to walk through the entire house lugging this box with the wood attached. Sure it can be done, but its a darn good deterrent.  Actually it might be better than bolting to the wood floor as a good crowbar would solve that problem.  But again, its a deterrent and that is what I bought it for.

[Sandy 44]

My main concern was kids , then detterent . The stack on is neither IMO. My 6 year old could easily wiggle a paper clip in there the way I did . It was a newbie mistake , which is why I shared it here Certain things you should really spend a bit more on , a safe is one of them.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

My main concern was kids , then detterent . The stack on is neither IMO. My 6 year old could easily wiggle a paper clip in there the way I did . It was a newbie mistake , which is why I shared it here Certain things you should really spend a bit more on , a safe is one of them.

 

OK, so what do all of you here use for portable safes?  I had the same issue... There is another analysis video on YouTube that goes into further detail and covers more safes. The problem is, none of these videos offer a solution for the problems they raise... i assume it's in order to cover themselves in the event what they recommend fails, and they get sued or whatever.

 

So, I won't ask "what do you recommend" but, rather, "What do you use" for Portable safes? What do you keep at your bedside? What would you use to transport securely in your car, or if staying at  temporary lodging ( a hotel, etc.)?

 

Just curious...   Thanks.

[Howard 538]

Check the date on many of those videos.  I believe they were once valid but these companies fixed the defects in newer models.

[ChrisJM981 924]

HB, I keep guns in my safe. A HD handgun goes in the BioVault when I'm home, and stays there until I leave for work the next day. A pain yes, but I'm okay with it.

[Sandy 44]

Well , that is the thing ..these Stack On Safes are not suppose to be portable . They are supposed to be bolted to the floor or wall studs. For portability I use a Gunvault with a finger pressed key combo . It has a cable to secure it to something permanent or at least heavy. I feel that one will keep my kids out , but it is still just a detterent againt smash and grab and run type break ins. The only kind of safes that are going to keep out a skilled thief with time on his hands and tools is the kind that costs 4 figures.

My main intention with this message was to illustrate that if your kid can jiggle a paperclip , he/she can get into this safe. Something like a Barska will keep a kid out and be a bit of a theft deterrent .Has to be bolted or secured though. Otherwise they just walk out with it. Kind of like chaining your bike to a parking meter.

[Sandy 44]

Check the date on many of those videos.  I believe they were once valid but these companies fixed the defects in newer models.

Could be..I bought mine 3 years ago.

[Howard 538]

Crap, gotta run.... My bike is chained to a parking meter

[Sandy 44]

Crap, gotta run.... My bike is chained to a parking meter

WAS chained. Now it is mine.

[Howard 538]

Sandy sandy sandy, never admit to anything on the internet. It never goes away, unlike my bike!

[Sandy 44]

Sandy sandy sandy, never admit to anything on the internet. It never goes away, unlike my bike!

And I don't even have to lower the seat much!

[Howard 538]

True that

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Well , that is the thing ..these Stack On Safes are not suppose to be portable. They are supposed to be bolted to the floor or wall studs.

I was thinking of this model: Stack On PC-650

 

Unfortunately, it was the 1st safe they cracked open in the YT video I mentioned.   I own a couple of them. But I checked, and it does seem they've made some improvements to them (the reset button is not as accessible from the main crack it is recessed inside a covering for those mechanisms). Not sure about the plastic covering over the buttons (i.e. how easy it might be to pry off), but it would definitely take some kind of tool to make it happen. I also don't know if there are any holes underneath it.

 

For "near the bedside," I have a GunVault GV2000C-DLX.  Both with battery and AC adapter. Finger pads only, non biometric (I was warned about biometric safes in my training classes). There is no longer a hole with access to the reset button. Perhaps the covering over the finger buttons could be lifted but, again, I don't believe it's covering any holes that give access to the reset button or the latching mechanism. It does have mounting bolt holes on the bottom, and I can use those to mount it to the floor of the nightstand. I also have two key only operated mini-safes. Both could be pried with tools, but it would take a considerable effort, and there are no electronics involved.

 

All of these and my ammo, (except the duty weapon) are inside a secure crawl space area in the foundation of my townhouse (surrounded by cinder block) with a secure door attached. Since I will, eventually, GTFO NJ , I will consider the big "long gun" safe upon that event. My only long gun at present is my 930 12G.  But since I do travel with my "inventory" out of state, I need portable solutions for the car, hotels, and for where I say while away.

[Howard 538]

Not sure I buy the warnings on biometrics. I have never had mine not open with my fingers. Mine stores 32 images and I have both thumbs and index fingers stored with five or six different positions on the sensor. Also it has the keypad just incase.

[Sandy 44]

They may have fixed those issues , but I still do recommend trying the paper clip trick on the lock override.

[djg0770 481]

Howard the warning on biometrics pertains to stuff that might be on your hands in a crisis like blood more so than sweat though sweat is a concern as well.

[Howard 538]

Agreed, that is why I ought the higher end one that has a keypad as well

[Sandy 44]

I program all fingers on mine multiple times . I even let Pete have a few lol It has like 110 prints in it.

[Howard 538]

I program all fingers on mine multiple times . I even let Pete have a few lol It has like 110 prints in it.

You actually allow Pete to have access to guns when you are not around?  That sounds very reckless to me!

[mipafox 438]

All digital locks will fail. Not just biometrics.

[njpilot 671]

Buy once, cry once. People spend thousands on their guns yet balk at the idea of investing in a good safe. I never understood that.

This x 1000