Help me buy my first shotgun

[Candyman87 10]

Long story short, I'm a pistol shooter looking into doing more with trap, skeet, and sporting clays. I've taken NRA Basic Shotgun and walked out of there pretty dead set on getting an 870 Wingmaster. I didn't have any problem shooting trap with a pump, but am not sure I'll have the same experience with skeet (haven't shot skeet in YEARS). 

 

This past weekend, I finally made it out to Lehigh Valley Sporting Clays and fell in love with the Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon, until I realized it was a $2,000 gun. Being that it's a first shotgun and needs to "do it all" right now, I'm still leaning towards the 870 Wingmaster rather than an over/under. 

 

My budget right now is about $750 or so. The 870 Wingmaster comes in around $700 with a 28" barrel and Rem-Choke system. 

 

Would I be happy with the 870? I like the fact that I can swap out barrels and use it for other activities. I'm hoping it will last long enough until I can justify spending $2000 or more on a dedicated over/under for clays.

[Sonnylee 20]

Good starter gun, but eventually you want to try that O/U...

Skeet is very difficult with a pump.. Can be done but requires to many steps.

Good luck!

[Scorpio64 5,153]

I know I'll be promptly corrected if this is inaccurate but the 870 Wingmaster is just a pretty 870 Express.  I used to shoot skeet and trap with my Express and it was okay.  I did it before hunting season to get back in the groove, not so much for fun or competition but it was enjoyable.  Then one day I went out with a friend to shoot clays at Assunpink.  He let me shoot his Citori Grade O/U.  It was a magical experience.  Now I'm not saying to run out and buy a $5,000.00 O/U  but the difference between the two was like night and day.  If you plan on just shooting clays, I strongly recommend an O/U.  They are not as expensive as you may think.  Some of the under $750 O/U's get great reviews.  They are very much worth checking out.

[Candyman87 10]

I know I'll be promptly corrected if this is inaccurate but the 870 Wingmaster is just a pretty 870 Express.

 

My understanding is that the 870 Express is a more budget minded model whereas the Wingmaster is a higher-end model with a walnut stock, glossy finish, and more work done internally for a smoother action. Either way, I'd probably skip the Express just because the laminate stock just looks cheap to me.

 

 

If you plan on just shooting clays, I strongly recommend an O/U.  They are not as expensive as you may think.  Some of the under $750 O/U's get great reviews.  They are very much worth checking out.

 

I think I want to do more than just clays, but am not sure right now. I'm afraid if I drop $750 on a CZ Redhead or a Stoeger, that I'll end up buying the 870 anyway, and then will replace it in a year or two with the Beretta 686 that I really want. I'm just wary about my only shotgun being an O/U right now.

[Scorpio64 5,153]

My understanding is that the 870 Express is a more budget minded model whereas the Wingmaster is a higher-end model with a walnut stock, glossy finish, and more work done internally for a smoother action. Either way, I'd probably skip the Express just because the laminate stock just looks cheap to me.

 

 

 

I think I want to do more than just clays, but am not sure right now. I'm afraid if I drop $750 on a CZ Redhead or a Stoeger, that I'll end up buying the 870 anyway, and then will replace it in a year or two with the Beretta 686 that I really want. I'm just wary about my only shotgun being an O/U right now.

 

Fit and finish aside, the handling of both the Express and the Wingmaster will be about the same. It a big heavy gun to be swinging around all day shooting clays.   I would not buy an 870 express today if it was 1/2 price.  Got mine in 89, back then they came with solid hardwood stocks.  It's a tank.  But that's my point.  For hunting, you want a tank.  For clays, you want a Ferrari.  You may not be unhappy with a Wingmaster, but I can tell you that you will probably be much happier with an O/U.

[DaddyNick 408]

shoot as many types as you can. what feels good to you may not feel good to me. I got a beretta 390 (semi auto)2nd hand.  great gun and you will see a lot of them on the skeet/clay shoots. theres a reason for that. they are good gun and used ones will usually be in the 500-800 range depending on barrels/wood.

 

I was raised shooting side by sides. I like a thick forearm grip in my non shooting hand. the few O/Us I handled I just could never get the forearm to sit well in my hand. regardless of what gun you get remember....you point a shotgun NOT aim it. lol since you mentioned you were a pistol shooter that may be more of a learning/training thing for you when you start shootin' the scatter gun. Nick

[Candyman87 10]

regardless of what gun you get remember....you point a shotgun NOT aim it. lol since you mentioned you were a pistol shooter that may be more of a learning/training thing for you when you start shootin' the scatter gun. Nick

 

Thanks! The biggest reason I took the NRA Basic Shotgun course was to train that part out of me. I spent the first half hour forgetting everything I knew about pistols and rifles, and then finally started breaking clays. By the time the day was out, I was hitting more than half. Not bad for learning on a 20" 870 Police model. 

[Sixtytwo327 14]

 

I'm just wary about my only shotgun being an O/U right now.

 

Why? An O/U shotgun is better than the one you have right now.

 

My vote is, get the 686. You will not regret buying an heirloom-quality O.U.

[Candyman87 10]

Why? An O/U shotgun is better than the one you have right now.

 

My vote is, get the 686. You will not regret buying an heirloom-quality O.U.

 

Definitely can't afford the 686 right now. Budget is ~$750. 

 

Currently paying my way through an MBA program. Hopefully, I'll be reaping the rewards of that come December/January and then can treat myself.

[jm1827 284]

I am by no means good at either trap or skeet, but prioritization of $$$ has forced me to stay with my 50 year old 870 Wingmaster.  When I used to shoot 3-4 times a week (back when I used to live a mile down the road from Cherry Ridge) even using a pump I could consistently break 23 to 24 clays each round. 

 

My 870 still functions flawlessly to this day, I have 1 barrel for clays and one for slugs (which can hold 4 inch groups @ 50 yards). 

 

So, my point is, an 870 may not be the best choice for clays, and if you can afford a good U/O by all means get one, but if you can only get one gun don't be afraid to get an 870, especially on the used circuit.  Mine has over 20K rounds through it and it still runs flawlessly!

[W2MC 1,699]

A few thoughts - all mine, and I am nowhere near an expert on anything.

 

To begin with...your first shotgun will not be your last.

 

Pumps are good all-around shotguns. Their advantage is they can do everything reasonably well. Wanna shoot trap? You're set. Sporting clays or skeet? No problem. Go after pheasant, deer, ducks, geese, bear? You're all set. Now is it the BEST at each of these? No.....but...you're just starting out. Getting your feet wet. Trying to figure out what works for you.

 

Do you want to take all that $$$ and plunk it down on a brand-new something where you're unsure what you want? (and it really doesn't matter how much we're ytalking...you can get a shotgun for a hundred bucks, and you can find a shotgun where $10,000 isn't enough. )

 

Take a look at the used rack....and the 'for sale' list here, and on New Jersey hunter. There's a nice over under listed for under $400. And it's only had a box or two of shells thru it. It's no browning citori or Winchester 101, but it's a good basic shotgun. There's also a couple of nice 1100 Remingtons. They are semi automatics; The lefty is more of a hunting gun, but the other would be a nice all around shotgun. And with a little work, it could be a great trap shooter...you'll see a LOT of 1100's shooting trap...there's a reason...

 

As for the Remington 870 Express vs Wingmaster debate.....I have both; a relatively new lefty Express, and a Wingmaster from the early Eighties that had been ridden hard and put away wet, and shows the wear and tear of all those years. Even with all that wear and tear....there's no comparison. The Wingmaster is far and away a better shotgun than the Express.

 

Oh Forgot to mention. That 870 Wingmaster? Found it for sale at a show; price was VERY nice because it had some freckling in the bluing from being left in a padded case for too long. Still shoots sweet...

[Gus 33]

You will be fine with the wingmaster. I annihilate clays with the same gun and love it.

 

But, here's some friendly advice. The express shotguns are not as terrible as they once were. I  bought 2 different 870 express models this year and have had zero problems. You will not win any beauty contests with them, but you won't get depressed when you ding one up either. Everyone bags on the laminated stock, and yes it is ugly, but it is structurally sound.

 

Where Am I going with this? Being new to shotgunning and clays, I wouldn't rush out and buy anything expensive. The express will teach you speed, focus, and patience, so that when you decide to get that easier to shoot o/u, you will get a huge boost in confidence that will take your shooting to the next level. But, just in case you change your mind later, you will be out very little money.

 

Start out slow, there's plenty of time later to go out and get anything you want.

[Sixtytwo327 14]

Definitely can't afford the 686 right now. Budget is ~$750.

hear that.

 

It's also a question of motivation and personality. If you're a driven competitive type - you join a club or league and shoot ten rounds every weekend rain or shine, get a 686. If you're a casual competitor, and being outside is half the fun, or you shoot once a month or so with friends, the 870 or a similar used pump gun is a great choice and is more than capable.

 

A third option is wait. Rent a 686 (or other guns) when you have a free weekend, finish up your degree, then see where you are in 6 months. If the Beretta is still the one you want, get it. If not, you saved a chunk of money.

[Parker 213]

I would cringe at buying a new 870, especially for $700. I'd find a nice used one for a lot less and be happy with the money I saved for a starter shotgun.  

If you shop around for a used Beretta, you can find them for less than $1,000 if you don't need the nitride or chrome engraved receiver embellishment found on the 686/687. You can opt for the Onyx or Essential series. It's the same gun, same feel, with less bling. Theycan be had in different barrel lengths and they all have Mobilechokes for versatility. The older O/U's like the BL-series with fixed-chokes can be had for even less than the 686-series in some cases.
 

Try not to buy any shotgun unless you've shouldered it first. Proper fit is very important.

[T Bill 649]

If I had to start all over again, my first shotgun would be a general purpose shotgun.  Ability to shoot clays, hunt, home defense. You will never get rid of it.  It will be just a good all purpose shotgun.

 

That being said, the Remington 870 would fit the bill as a starter shotgun.  However I am not a fan of Remington anymore.  They have cheapened their product line to more than my liking.

 

Who else offers a great first pump shotgun?  A Benelli Super Nova.  No wood, true, but the feel, fit, and function is hard to beat.  The Super Nova (NOT the Nova) has a list of features that I feel trump the Remington today.  Takes any 12 gauge shell made today, 2 3/4, 3, 3 1/2.  The Comfort Tech stock (a must) is fully adjustable to fit.  It has a great feature where you can pump the gun but it doesn't feed a shell.  Why?  Someday you'll know why.  No worries about wet or dinged up stocks. Real slick action.  Aftermarket is getting better for this pump.  Carlson makes several different barrels for it, Mesa Tactical makes add-ons to transform it into a HD beast.  Nordic Tactical also has tube extensions and followers that work great.

 

I really like this gun.  Some will tell you, wood , been there done that.  Polymer is here to stay for a reason more than just it's cheaper than wood.  Make time to check out the Benelli Super Nova Model 20100.  12 gauge, 28" Vent Rib, Comfort Tech Stock.  Street about $475 - $500.  I think you will like it.

[Barms 98]

Fit and finish aside, the handling of both the Express and the Wingmaster will be about the same. It a big heavy gun to be swinging around all day shooting clays. I would not buy an 870 express today if it was 1/2 price. Got mine in 89, back then they came with solid hardwood stocks. It's a tank. But that's my point. For hunting, you want a tank. For clays, you want a Ferrari. You may not be unhappy with a Wingmaster, but I can tell you that you will probably be much happier with an O/U.

If the Ferrari tank analogy is based on weight alone, pretty much any serious clay enthusiast will say you are dead wrong. Sprorting guns are DESIGNED heavier to absorb recoil better. hunting guns are lighter because you are walking in the woods with them.

 

...just saying...

[Scrap 4]

I am absolutely a no-know at trap, skeet, and sporting clays and I also have bare bones knowledge in the area of those high-end sporting Over/Under shotguns used in gaming etc.

 

But I wanted to chime in for a few points-

 

Re: Remington 870- There is ONE Remington 870.  This has been confirmed by several industry experts across the internet you can research for verification and citations.  There is only one Remington 870- same receiver, same just about everything- the differences in the models are Finish and Furniture.  ie- Wingmasters get rich, shiny, (and admittedly beautiful) bluing and rich, shiny, (and admittedly beautiful) wooden furniture.  Police models get parkerization and specific polymer furniture (Stock and forend when I say furniture).  In the case of the 870P Police models, there are 4 parts (springs basically) different than a "regular" 870 and you can swap them for about $30-$50 depending on source.  However, Express, Police, and Wingmaster, same shotgun.  There are those who will tell you that due to the fact Wingmasters and Police are made in "separate areas of the factory by the best specialist gunsmiths with the best tools and undergo more '(lol) hand assembly and fitting!!!' they are completely better shotguns" and you can take that however you want.  Same shotguns.  Pumping a Wingmaster is the same as pumping an Express and pumping a Police.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a Wingmaster as a dedicated hunting or gaming gun or a 870P for a specialized combat gun purchase.  But they're basically the same shotgun.  I just wanted to clarify that, not take a position one way or the other.

 

 

Someone mentioned Benelli, it is no secret I think Benelli might be the best value in shotguns.... they do make very expensive stuff but they have shotguns that are comparable in price to regular old Remington/Mossberg shotguns but they are just so nice...they really do LOOK & FEEL so much better, smoother, silky and sexy and nicer.  So if you wanted a fair priced pump but a NICE one for gaming, I cannot see how you could go wrong.  The difference between the Nova and SuperNova is basically an integral stock on the Nova, it's permanently bonded to the receiver.... the SuperNova can change stocks out easily w/ a screw... and there may be a few different models and options on the SuperNova.  (colors of finishes, sights, etc.)

[John Boy 6]

http://www.gunsinternational.com/SKB-Model-500-12-GA.cfm?gun_id=100464416&CFID=576121&CFTOKEN=2de066adcc47804c-2537BE36-90B1-1C33-461390D23781F9D4

Put chokes in if you want to

My go to 20ga for skeet - like pointing my finger.  Have the Model 800 Trap also plus Win 101's & 1100's for all 3 sports

[lunker 274]

You don't need a microscope to see the machining differences between a Wingmaster/Police model and an Express. The Express is a rougher product that would never have been allowed to leave the factory 20 years ago. If you want function and don't care about form, then the Express is for you (As a Glock fan, i can appreciate this view). Eventually you will wear down those surfaces to the point where they are smooth. If you are thinking about an heirloom, the Wingmaster is a better choice. If you care about quality and don't mind paying for it, then a Police or Wingmaster is for you.

[gunguy1960 2]

Shooters gun store has skb o/u for $700, weatherby o/u for $900, used jap o/u is the way to go.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I've been around a while.  A retired friend of mine has an old Wingmaster.  I told him I wanna buy it for my son.  So far, NO dice.  But eventually, it may be for sale??  I've had it in my hands.  Action is as smooth as a baby's behind.  No herkey-jerky metal-to-metal sounds as you crank it into battery.  5 rounds in 2.5 sec. capability with Knockdown Steel (shootin' Low Brass).  Fit and finish are SUPREME!

[Parker 213]

If the Ferrari tank analogy is based on weight alone, pretty much any serious clay enthusiast will say you are dead wrong. Sprorting guns are DESIGNED heavier to absorb recoil better. hunting guns are lighter because you are walking in the woods with them.

 

...just saying...

 

Agree.

 

There is a reason why a Krieghoff K80, one of the premier guns on the clay target fields, weighs on average about 9 lbs. or more. It stands up to recoil, but would be a bear to tote around in the fields or woods all day.

[Scorpio64 5,153]

Agree.

 

There is a reason why a Krieghoff K80, one of the premier guns on the clay target fields, weighs on average about 9 lbs. or more. It stands up to recoil, but would be a bear to tote around in the fields or woods all day.

 

The point I was trying to make has apparently been missed. The comparison is about handling, not weight.  That and you dont get upset if a tank gets scratched or dinged but I've seen grown men practically cry when their  $5,000 gun got a scratch.  Let me be more clear so there is no doubt.  A fine O/U will handle like a Ferrari whereas an 870 will handle like a tank.

[Parker 213]

I see your point. I like nice handling guns afield, not just on the clay range. Scratches, gouges and chips add character and are a memento of the day afield. Not me particularly, but I hunt with fellows and family members who hunt with their very expensive guns.

 

The only 870 I like for upland hunting is the discontinued Special Field model. The stock design and short barrel make for a handy gun for woodcock & grouse in thick cover and it is not too shabby over a pointing dog for pheasants.

(I do think the M12 & M37 make a better handling "tank" than the 870.)