Help with a law.

[One_crazy_dude 1]

I got a guy at work telling me that BB guns are illegal to have in New Jersey with out the fire arms purchasing id.

 

I told him that's not true you can own bbgun/real guns without Fipd that the Fpid card it for purchasing in New Jersey. He says I'm wrong.

 

Can any one post the documents. I'm having a hard time finding what I'm looking for while at work. Thanks.

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

I've always found it better to turn the tables on people who make silly arguments.

 

Ask him to prove to you that his assertion is correct.

 

He's making a claim that is based on law and so he should be able to show you the law, no?

 

I always love the look come over their face as they read the law and come to the realization that they are wrong, and then try to tap dance around it. 

[One_crazy_dude 1]

I've always found it better to turn the tables on people who make silly arguments.

 

Ask him to prove to you that his assertion is correct.

 

He's making a claim that is based on law and so he should be able to show you the law, no?

 

I always love the look come over their face as they read the law and come to the realization that they are wrong, and then try to tap dance around it.

I did this and because he said he looked it up back when his son had a run in with the law, a BB gun and a car window that he knows he is correct.

 

I would like to correct him but I my self only heard my side and never read the law it self and I'm interested in doing so. Thanks.

[djg0770 481]

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_ag2.html

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

Under NJ law a bb gun is treated the same as a real gun. If you possess it under one of the exemptions you do not need an FPID card. If you are transporting it uncased/unwrapped in the passenger compartment of a vehicle you need the card to be legal assuming it is a long gun and out is unloaded. If it is a bb pistol you are SOL if you don't have a permit to carry a handgun which we all know is as rare as rocking horse pucky.

 

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[One_crazy_dude 1]

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_ag2.html

Thanks but there is nothing there about BB guns. I have been on this site and can't find what I'm looking for. I'm asking if any body can find it for me. I'm not lazy but on a forklift most of the day.

[One_crazy_dude 1]

Under NJ law a bb gun is treated the same as a real gun. If you possess it under one of the exemptions you do not need an FPID card. If you are transporting it uncased/unwrapped in the passenger compartment of a vehicle you need the card to be legal assuming it is a long gun and out is unloaded. If it is a bb pistol you are SOL if you don't have a permit to carry a handgun which we all know is as rare as rocking horse pucky.

 

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This guy is telling me it's Illegal to just have one in the home.

[Sandy 44]

This guy is telling me it's Illegal to just have one in the home.

 It's not. The law is exactly as the regular gun laws. If you are going to buy a long BB gun , you need an FID . If you are going to transport it , you need an FID. If you are going to buy a pistol you need a P2P and have to follow all transport laws as if it was a regular handgun. If it was bequeathed to you or if you bought it while you were a resident of another state in that state and then moved with them to NJ, you can have either type in your home without having to do anything. In other words , if you know and understand the handgun and long gun laws in NJ , you know the BB gun regulations because they are treated the same.

Just don't shoot your eye out .

[ManWithBeard 2]

Thanks but there is nothing there about BB guns. I have been on this site and can't find what I'm looking for. I'm asking if any body can find it for me. I'm not lazy but on a forklift most of the day.

A bb gun is treated the same as a rifle in NJ so the laws that apply for rifles apply for bb guns.

[T Bill 649]

Growing up I was told not to argue with fools, people watching may not be able to tell the difference.

 

Air rifles of any kind are treated as firearms in NJ.  From your  information, BB gun and car window were involved.  OK, at that point illegal activity one would surmise, therefore possession illegal.  Otherwise all other standard firearm rules apply.

 

If he acquired the air rifle out of state and does not have a NJ FID, then he did not acquire it legally (must meet laws of both states) and possession is illegal.  If he acquired it legally in other state as a resident and move to NJ, possession legal.

 

In NJ it is pretty much what you do with it determines its legality.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

Growing up I was told not to argue with fools, people watching may not be able to tell the difference.

A similar piece of advice I have been told:

 

Don't argue with idiots. They will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

 

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[djg0770 481]

If he acquired the air rifle out of state and does not have a NJ FID, then he did not acquire it legally (must meet laws of both states) and possession is illegal.

 

There is some debate about this.  Other states do not treat a BB gun as a firearm therefore purchase there is perfectly legal.  The issue becomes sticky when he brings said firearm into NJ.

[T Bill 649]

Exactly, purchase in another state that follows federal regulations state that air guns are not firearms, so he met that state's criteria, however as a NJ resident, he did not. IANAL, but I would say that the NJ AG's office would state illegal possession in a heartbeat.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

This guy is telling me it's Illegal to just have one in the home.

He's wrong.

 

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[coldsolderjoint 84]

Exactly, purchase in another state that follows federal regulations state that air guns are not firearms, so he met that state's criteria, however as a NJ resident, he did not. IANAL, but I would say that the NJ AG's office would state illegal possession in a heartbeat.

 

How does NJ assert it's laws in other states where they have no jurisdiction? The rifle and pistol laws are a federal law (gun control act of 68 and the brady stuff). IANAL but, I do not believe there are any federal laws on purchasing of BB guns.

 

Every time you read about someone being charged for something to do with a BB gun, it is a charge for something along the lines of "Possession of a weapon for unlawful purpose" .. not simply just possession.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Meeting the laws of both states is a Federal statute, so null & void in regard to a BB gun since it is not considered a firearm under federal law.

[SOG 7]

You you don't have a FID and you get jammed up with any thing the State of New Jersey considers or says is a fire arm you are screwed. Period. If the police come to your house and see a long gun and you don't have a FID the same thing applies. They consider owning any fire arm with out a FID " Possession of a Fire Arm for unlawful purpose". Long guns do not need to be registered, but after inheriting or receiving a handgun you have a 60 day grace period to apply for a permit. Before applying for the hand gun permit you need a FID.

 

 

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[Midwest 28]

 

Meeting the laws of both states is a Federal statute, so null & void in regard to a BB gun since it is not considered a firearm under federal law.

Right and neither are black powder guns, or sling shots. There have been posts (on this forum) about people  buying a BB gun or Black Powder gun in PA and bringing it back.

[Midwest 28]

 Before applying for the hand gun permit you need a FID.

 

 

 

No you don't, you can just get a permit to purchase.

[SOG 7]

In NJ you do.

 

 

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[Midwest 28]

 If the police come to your house and see a long gun and you don't have a FID the same thing applies. They consider owning any fire arm with out a FID "

 

 

Wrong, that very maybe the case in Illinois where a FOID is required to own firearms or ammo. Where does it say in NJ law that a FID is needed to own a rifle? Supposed you moved from PA to NJ with your firearms and don't plan to buy any more firearms in NJ. Do you still need an FID? Where it say you need an FID if you own a gun?

[SOG 7]

Midwest can you PM me ?

 

 

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[PK90 3,570]

STOP!!!

You you don't have a FID and you get jammed up with any thing the State of New Jersey considers or says is a fire arm you are screwed. WRONG Period. If the police come to your house and see a long gun and you don't have a FID the same thing applies. WRONG They consider owning any fire arm with out a FID " Possession of a Fire Arm for unlawful purpose". WRONG Long guns do not need to be registered, but after inheriting or receiving a handgun you have a 60 day grace period to apply for a permit. WRONG Before applying for the hand gun permit you need a FID. WRONG

In NJ you do. A Permit is for purchasing a handgun. A FPID is for purchasing long guns. Each acts independently of the other.

Everything you have said is wrong. Nobody listen to the above.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

PK90 knows this inside out. I wholeheartedly endorse his advice to ignore SOG.

 

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[SOG 7]

If I'm wrong then I am, but I don't know where you got your information from. I have my rear end covered. If you have possession of anything NJ considers a fire arm to legally own it you need a FID. Prove that I'm wrong please.

 

 

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[PK90 3,570]

You don't need a FPID to own firearms. A FPID is only for purchasing long guns and for transporting outside the exemptions. PERIOD. You show me where it says you need a FPID to own firearms.

[Midwest 28]

 Long guns do not need to be registered, but after inheriting or receiving a handgun you have a 60 day grace period to apply for a permit.

 

 

Incorrect, where are you getting your information from? 

 

http://www.nj2as.com/NJFID

 

"N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.13 Firearms passing to heirs or legatees

(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of this subchapter concerning the transfer, receipt or acquisition of a firearm, a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card shall not be required for the passing of a firearm upon the death of an owner thereof to their heir or legatee, whether the same be by testamentary bequest or by the laws of intestacy. A person so acquiring ownership may retain the firearm if he or she meets the requirements of N.J.A.C. 13:54- 1.5 and 1.6."

 

 

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/rules/njsp/rp010702a.htm

"The amendment to N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5(a) requires that an individual must be  21 years of age to purchase a handgun. This language is necessary due to  statutory changes in New Jersey Statutes Title 2C, Chapters 39 and 58.  The amendment also adds N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5(b)9 and 10, in accordance  with N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3(c)(6) and (7). N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5(b) has been amended to include additional prohibitions on the issuance of a firearms  purchaser identification card. N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5(b)9 prohibits issuance  to individuals under a court order pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:25-29.   N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.5(b)10 prohibits issuance to any individual who was  adjudicated delinquent as a juvenile for an offense which, if committed by an  adult, would constitute a crime and the offense involved the unlawful use or  possession. " 

The above paragraph means over 21 and under no legal prohibitions..... I live in Kentucky and know New Jersey gun laws fairly well, I have been studying it for some time.

.

[Sandy 44]

You you don't have a FID and you get jammed up with any thing the State of New Jersey considers or says is a fire arm you are screwed. Period. If the police come to your house and see a long gun and you don't have a FID the same thing applies. They consider owning any fire arm with out a FID " Possession of a Fire Arm for unlawful purpose". Long guns do not need to be registered, but after inheriting or receiving a handgun you have a 60 day grace period to apply for a permit. Before applying for the hand gun permit you need a FID.

 

 

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Wow. Where on earth did you read ANY of that in our statutes??

 

If I'm wrong then I am, but I don't know where you got your information from. I have my rear end covered. If you have possession of anything NJ considers a fire arm to legally own it you need a FID. Prove that I'm wrong please.

 

 

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He got his information by being a long time well respected NJ FFL. Your rear may be covered ( it actually sounds hermetically sealed ) , but you are not correctly stating the law. You're adding requirements which is the last thing we need in NJ. Anyone new to the community , disregard any of that . 

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Nothing to see here. Move along.

[Midwest 28]

 

but after inheriting or receiving a handgun you have a 60 day grace period to apply for a permit.

 

 

That "grace period" that you mentioned to get a FID .....is law ...in Massachusetts

 

That state also call their Firearm Identification Card an "FID" . Maybe someone from Massachusetts gave you information for their state instead of New Jersey's?

 

FID > New Jersey (Really is FPID = Firearms Purchaser's ID Card) - not required for possessing firearms or ammo

 

FID> Massachusetts (Required to have to possess firearms and ammo and pepper spray) - 60 day grace period.

 

FIOD> Illinois (Required to have to possess firearms and ammo)- need to possess. No grace period noted.

 

http://www.sec.state.ma.us/cis/ciswel/weltomas.htm

 

(Go down the page to Gun Laws (M.G.L. ch. 140, s. 131)

"New residents have 60 days to obtain proper licenses. Non-residents may obtain temporary licenses to carry through the Firearms Record Bureau in order to possess and transport firearms through the Commonwealth. All non-residents must comply with all Massachusetts laws regarding transportation and storage while in the Commonwealth."

 

 

Since you are new here, check out  these posts that I wrote on the history of New Jersey Gun laws

 

http://cemeterysgunblob.com/2012/01/14/when-did-new-jersey-become-so-anti-gun/

http://cemeterysgunblob.com/2012/01/15/when-did-new-jersey-become-so-anti-gun-part-deux/