Help with a law.

[SOG 7]

First I'm pro-gun and pro-Second Amendment. Thank you for the comment IrishPete. I don't believe I sighted any Statutes. Midwest I appreciate your wisdom and I don't want to get off thread on this issue. I was wrong about inheriting a handgun, but I know of two cases where non-residents brought legally owned fire arms in to NJ without having a NJFID and both were arrested. There is a grey area about possession without a FID. PK90 thanks for the big bold red letters. It added a nice touch

 

 

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[Midwest 28]

 

but I know of two cases where non-residents brought legally owned fire arms in to NJ without having a NJFID and both were arrested.

 

Correct, one guy ( a former cop nonetheless) passing through the state decided to fall asleep by a bank (in New Jersey) with a loaded firearm (s?) in his vehicle.  As I understand it, he could not use FOPA as a defense because he had a loaded weapon (s?), and he stopped in New Jersey and slept by a bank and was not passing through. Even if he had an NJFID, I doubt that would have helped him.

 

The most recent case with the lady from Pennsylvania who had a PA Carry Permit (that NJ does not recognize) and it was said that she volunteered information to a NJ cop that she had a handgun in her purse.

 

Would a NJFID have helped her in this case? Only if she wanted to buy a rifle or handgun ammunition in NJ.

 

Brian Aiken's is another case that is well documented and there is no sense going over it again.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

WTF!!!  I am absolutely APPALLED by the lack of understanding of NJ firearms law by a member of this forum!  And over a BULLSHIT BB gun at that!  That was used in some sort of malicious mischief involving a car window!  From the product of someone else's sperm cells no less!

 

It's been said........

 

NO mandatory registration!  Lots of legal gun owners with ZERO paperwork!

 

So my Dad brought home his GI .45 and a Luger from WW2 in a duffle bag.  He's pushin' 90, and has it at home.  He can transport it to any exempt location for a legal usage WITHOUT any paperwork at all!  He can even drive it to Cabela's in Hamburg, PA to have it inspected & appraised, so long as it is unloaded & locked in the trunk of his car.  And while he's there, he can buy a skid of .45 ACP to feed it, and get help loading his vehicle until the front wheels barely touch the ground!!  And ya know what, so can a widow that inherits an entire estate's worth of guns without anything other than a Will!!  No P2P is needed, PERIOD!

 

SOG's bullshit interpretation of NJ firearms law would then automatically make my Dad a Felon, since he never applied for a NJFID or a P2P!

 

Competition Shooters from all over the East coast compete at local and regional Matches.  They all bring hand guns and/or long guns into NJ for the legal use of attending the Match.  NONE of them have NJFID.  NONE of them are Felons!

 

Ya want a BB hand gun?  Go to PA and stop in a Walmart and BUY one.  As long as you're NOT a Prohibited Person you're GTG!  Throw the box into the trunk of your car and slam the trunk lid closed and VIOLA, the toy is secure!  As you cross the Delaware river, and cross the State line, this toy instantly transforms into a DEATH MACHINE that has to be treated as if it were a Desert Eagle .50 AE with a 200 yard kill range:  the "directly to and from" rules apply, so don't stop to do any antique collecting on the way back to your dwelling, gunsmith, range, or other exempted location!  

 

NJ law is Ef'd up enough as it is without any further help from the ill-informed..............

 

Dave

Shootist, Competitor, Amateur Historian

[SOG 7]

Ok I admit I was wrong about Long Gun's. I can man-up and that's what this thread was about and I'll leave it with that.

 

 

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[Oakridgefirearms 224]

OK, now that we have all that cleared up, back to the OP's question......

 

The law you're looking for is right next to the laws that say you can breath air, wear orange colored sneakers and eat dinner while standing on your head.

 

(ok, sarcasm off)

 

The point I'm making is that you're not going to find a law telling you what is legal, you are only going to find laws that tell you what is illegal. So, absent a law saying that something is illegal, it is by default legal to do.

[One_crazy_dude 1]

I have been keeping an eye on this thread and reading what I can on NJ state police sight and almost feel I need a lawyer to intrepid how it's all written. But I still can't find anything that states I can own a gun/BB gun without the need to have a NJFID.

 

i know I have read it someware.

[Sandy 44]

There is nothing written that says you "can" .  More importantly there is nothing written that says you "can't" have one without an FID . This would be the salient point of this thread.

[djg0770 481]

I have been keeping an eye on this thread and reading what I can on NJ state police sight and almost feel I need a lawyer to intrepid how it's all written. But I still can't find anything that states I can own a gun/BB gun without the need to have a NJFID.

 

i know I have read it someware.

Is there anything that states you CAN own a car without a driver's license?

[glockamole 0]

So with my fid I can take my ar15 on a joy ride to a friends house ( unloaded in the trunk like any other trip)? Say I'm spending the night at my girl friends house can bring my ar with me to protect us? Always wondered that. I know a handgun is a no no.

[SJG 253]

Unfortunately, you are all wrong, in part. If there is one thing that this thread demonstrates, it is that reasonably educated non lawyers cannot determine what NJ law is and to what extent it may be prempted by federal law. The good news is that all of you are partially correct. Even those quoting the law, do not understand the interrelationship between federal law, state statutes, and the administrative code. If it makes any of you happier, you know more then the average lawyer, who does not practice in the area of firearms law. The problem here is that the poster making the inquiry, will often not properly articulate the issue or subsequent posters will add or subtract facts, before giving their interpretation. A slight change in the facts may change the answer.

[mikeyjones 88]

So what is the correct answer??

 

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[mipafox 438]

 

OK, now that we have all that cleared up, back to the OP's question......

 

The law you're looking for is right next to the laws that say you can breath air, wear orange colored sneakers and eat dinner while standing on your head.

 

(ok, sarcasm off)

 

The point I'm making is that you're not going to find a law telling you what is legal, you are only going to find laws that tell you what is illegal. So, absent a law saying that something is illegal, it is by default legal to do.

 

 

Except in Jersey.

 

In Jersey, firearms are illegal by default, and you need to prove an exception or defense if you are prosecuted. And BB guns are firearms in NJ.

 

So, I guess it might be correct to say law only says what you can't do. NJ law says you can't possess firearms or BB guns. We could leave it at that, or we could go on to say what the law says you can do.

[djg0770 481]

Unfortunately, you are all wrong, in part. If there is one thing that this thread demonstrates, it is that reasonably educated non lawyers cannot determine what NJ law is and to what extent it may be prempted by federal law. The good news is that all of you are partially correct. Even those quoting the law, do not understand the interrelationship between federal law, state statutes, and the administrative code. If it makes any of you happier, you know more then the average lawyer, who does not practice in the area of firearms law. The problem here is that the poster making the inquiry, will often not properly articulate the issue or subsequent posters will add or subtract facts, before giving their interpretation. A slight change in the facts may change the answer.

It's so wonderful when a lawyer comes on and tells us we are all wrong in part but by the same token provides not one word of help.  I bow to your excellence.  Now how about you actually HELP the guy?

[DeerSlayer 241]

^^^^^^this!

[Sandy 44]

It's so wonderful when a lawyer comes on and tells us we are all wrong in part but by the same token provides not one word of help.  I bow to your excellence.  Now how about you actually HELP the guy?

It will cost you at least a 2K retainer to get a Professional interpretation of the gray laws. Or rather , what the lawyer would say to try to persuade a judge to interpret said grayness to benefit his client. 

[Zeke 5,504]

It will cost you at least a 2K retainer to get a Professional interpretation of the gray laws. Or rather , what the lawyer would say to try to persuade a judge to interpret said grayness to benefit his client.

Quid pro quo.

He gave us nothing for nothing

[Smokin .50 1,907]

In all fairness, I must tell you that I PM'd SJGLAW and we chatted briefly about my post.  As I was made to understand, I was "the most correct" because I only omitted the requirements that a widow has as to the disposition of firearms with regard to record keeping, especially if said real property is used in lieu of cash to settle the affairs of an estate.  So you may all consider what I typed to be as close to "gospell" as any Layman can write them....

 

We didn't get into the question posed by glockamole in post #40 regarding taking a long gun to his girlfriend's house.  I'd have to consult the Orange Bible and get back to you folks before I screw the Pooch on THAT one.  Although I will say that I often take into consideration what "normal" folks do on a typical weekend, including going to the Pines in South Jersey and shooting in the Pines and then sleeping-over at the friend's house or apartment prior to returning back North........  That type of activity, especially by 20-somethings with NJFID's  probably occurs every nice weekend!

 

Dave

[Sandy 44]

Please Dave , not the pooch!

[Smokin .50 1,907]

^^^LOL Sandy!  Your Pooches are SAFE, especially Bo the Skunk Chaser!

[djg0770 481]

It will cost you at least a 2K retainer to get a Professional interpretation of the gray laws. Or rather , what the lawyer would say to try to persuade a judge to interpret said grayness to benefit his client. 

 

But he's more than willing to tell us we are all wrong.  There's a common saying in the real world (that would be outside litigation and the courtroom) which is "Put up or shut up".

[Guest]

It's so wonderful when a lawyer comes on and tells us we are all wrong in part but by the same token provides not one word of help.  I bow to your excellence.  Now how about you actually HELP the guy?

He has no interest in changing NJ laws to be more gun owner friendly, if anything he wants stricter laws in order to increase his business

EDIT - I  do not know this person, my statement is based on lawyers in general and NJ residents

 

This entire thread screams of reasons why I plan on moving out of this state and back to a free state, ASAP !!!!

[raz-0 1,259]

Exactly, purchase in another state that follows federal regulations state that air guns are not firearms, so he met that state's criteria, however as a NJ resident, he did not. IANAL, but I would say that the NJ AG's office would state illegal possession in a heartbeat.

Yes but the requirement to meet both stays rules is a federal regulation on the sale of firearms, which to them a b&n gun is not. Nj has no say on commerce conducted in another state. So you must abide by purchasing laws in that state, and transport and possession laws must be followed bringing it here.

 

If you rent a pistol from a range in another state that doesn't submit membership rosters to NJ, have you violated nj law? No, because nj law applies in nj.

 

 

[Arne 0]

A gentleman who lives in PA is standing across the NJ - PA borderline; one foot on the PA side and one foot on the NJ side. A PA State Trooper, with both feet on the PA side, stands next to him. A NJ State Trooper stands next to him on the NJ side, both feet on NJ soil. He's carrying a legal pistol and has a PA carry permit.
Does the NJ Trooper attempt to arrest him?
If the NJ Trooper attempts this apprehension, is the PA Trooper obligated to prevent a unlawful arrest, since the gentleman is acting lawfully in PA?

 

[PK90 3,570]

It depends which way his feet are directed (intent).

[Arne 0]

North.

Thank you Mr. Hart.

[JT Custom Guns 957]

[djg0770 481]

A gentleman who lives in PA is standing across the NJ - PA borderline; one foot on the PA side and one foot on the NJ side. A PA State Trooper, with both feet on the PA side, stands next to him. A NJ State Trooper stands next to him on the NJ side, both feet on NJ soil. He's carrying a legal pistol and has a PA carry permit.

Does the NJ Trooper attempt to arrest him?

If the NJ Trooper attempts this apprehension, is the PA Trooper obligated to prevent a unlawful arrest, since the gentleman is acting lawfully in PA?

 

Is more than 50% of the gun in PA?

[JohnnyB 4,325]

It depends which way his feet are directed (intent).

Paul would be correct in this scenario. IMHO!

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Also depends upon whether or not the NJ Trooper wants all of the paperwork and hassle for sumthin' that will be contested by the gun-totin' "victim", with a PA State Trooper as Lead Witness for the defense........

[Midwest 28]

 

A gentleman who lives in PA is standing across the NJ - PA borderline; one foot on the PA side and one foot on the NJ side.

 

 

Does this mean that only half the of the toll needs to be paid?

 

Can NJ arrest the person for toll evasion as well as gun possession?

 

If the person gets charged with toll evasion and gun possession, does only half the sentence apply?

 

Lastly, If the person is escaping NJ by crossing the Berlin wall from NJ into PA does the East German guards (on the NJ side) shoot at the escaping refugee and do they send the border guard dogs after the refugee? 

 

 

 

After the incident of the the PA lady that was arrested in NJ for having a firearm. I understand Pennsylvania is now putting up this new sign at the border

 

.