Jfoster99 80 Posted September 5, 2014 Researching sights for a possible Tavor purchase... I want to stick with something that the IDF has given a thumbs up to. Price is I portent but not the main consideration. I like the idea of integrated PTT with the existing button on rifle. Does anyone have any experience or recommendations with any of the 3 red dots and/or 3x magnifier???? 1) MeproLight Mepro 21 - $489.00 2) MSE AQC-1C - $729.00 3) ITL M.A.R.S ( by Fraser-Volpe) $979.00 Magnifier) Mepro MX3 3x Magnifier - $530.00 EOTech are nice but not the only excellent Reflex sight... I want something different that not everyone else has... And that is "Mil-Spec" accurate.. If that is even a term... Basically I want to use what the IDF is or will be using.. Pictures and details are Below ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mepro MX3 3x Magnifier - $530.00 ( is this the only 3X Magnifier the IDF uses?) http://www.opticsplanet.com/mako-group-3x-magnifier-for-reflex-and-red-dot-sights.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=plusbox-beta&gclid=CIC7r9DzyMACFUVo7AodPAUAYQ MeproLight Mepro 21 - $489.00 http://www.opticsplanet.com/mako-group-self-powered-day-night-reflex-sight-w-dust-cover.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=plusbox-beta&gclid=CKzNvazvyMACFQwV7AodAUgAwg MSE AQC-1C - $729.00 http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-accessories/command-arms-mse-sight-detail.html?Itemid=0 ITL M.A.R.S ( by Fraser-Volpe) $979.00 http://www.opticsplanet.com/fraser-volpe-mars-multi-purpose-aiming-reflex-sight-red-wpic-adr.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted September 5, 2014 Out of curiosity, why are you looking for an "IDF thumbs up" - are you looking for "Authenticity" or "Quality"? ETA: I wouldn't use any of the optics listed if given a choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blake 50 Posted September 5, 2014 My only experience out of those is the Mepro M21. I did not like it at all and would never buy one. The fit to the rail was poor and the sight rattled around on it (mounted on a Tavor). When asked Mepro said this was somewhat normal. The reticle is fine in bright light or complete dark but gets washed out in anything in between. A cloudy day, shooting from a shadow into sunlight, etc and you might have difficulty seeing it. There are way better options out there. If you are dead set on a red dot get an Aimpoint PRO and call it a day. If you want the 3x magnifier Aimpoint and EoTech both make good ones. For the cost of that though you can get a really nice 1-4 or 1-6x scope. Look at the Vortex PST or Gen II line, SWFA, or a used Steiner or USO scope. They can all be had for the price of a red dot and 3x combined. With these you get all the benefits of a red dot with the ability to switch magnification quickly in one unit. The PST will run you $500 in a mount, the others can be had used for around $1k. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jfoster99 80 Posted September 5, 2014 - are you looking for "Authenticity" or "Quality"? ' ETA: I wouldn't use any of the optics listed if given a choice. I would be willing to sacrifice some Quality for Authenticity... I'm sure a setup like this works just fine but.... Let's just say it's not for me... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blake 50 Posted September 5, 2014 I would be willing to sacrifice some Quality for Authenticity... I'm sure a setup like this works just fine but.... Let's just say it's not for me... ImageUploadedByTapatalk1409890356.758365.jpg Well then just get the Mepro, thats what they put on most of their Tavors. I have to say thats some flawed logic though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jfoster99 80 Posted September 5, 2014 My only experience out of those is the Mepro M21. I did not like it at all and would never buy one. If you are dead set on a red dot get an Aimpoint PRO and call it a day. If you want the 3x magnifier Aimpoint and EoTech both make good ones. . Thanks for the M21 feedback... Most reviews I saw we positive... Good to get another perspective... I am a recreational shooter and barring an EOTWAWKI scenario I won't be putting my life on the line with this gun. I kind of want to stay away from he Eotech/Aimpoint for this build and do something that will complement each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jfoster99 80 Posted September 5, 2014 . I have to say thats some flawed logic though... That is why I was leaning towards the ITL M.A.R.S. I think it is what the IDF is upgrading to. It has some impressive specs.. 1 MOA, internal Laser, PTT controls integral with the for-grip, ect... There is not much first hand info out there on it... Very little on YouTube. None of the main reviewers have evaluated it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The specs seem nice...... 1x Sight exit aperture: 25mm Reflex dot diameter: 0.3mRad (about 1" @ 100m) Parallax: <0.2mRad at infinity Light transmission: 85% for photopic response Red dot compensation: Automatic, dynamic range = 1 Dot intensity control: OFF, HIGH, MEDIUM, LOW, VERY LOW 5 positions (NVGs) Optical distortion: 0.5o angular deviation of parallel light beams through the sight Red: 650nm, 1.0 mW, Class 2 (IEC 825-1) IR (optional): 850nm, 0.4 mW, Class 1 (IEC 825-1)**restricted to law enforcement and military only Beam divergence: 0.5mRad Zeroing Adjustment: Reflex sight and pointing lasers adjusted with one operation Physical Weight: 15.2oz. with battery and cable Dimensions: 4.9in (L), 1.7in (W), 3.4in (H) Adapter: Picatinny rail Electrical Power Source: Single 1.5V "AA" battery Reflex Sight operation: 200hr continuous Laser pointer: 10,000 operations of 5 sec each Low voltage warning: @ 1V ±0.1V, non-interfering with sight operation Reliability Laser switch lifetime: Min 40,000 operations Environmental Temperature Range: -20° C to +55° C MIL STD 810F Humidity: 95% at +70° C Thermal shock: -20° C to +70° C Immersion: 1m, 30min. Salt fog, dust and sand Altitude: 15,000ft-50,000ft (non-operating) Shock: 30g for 11ms Features of FraserVolpe Reflex Sight MARS: Rugged Construction Simple, Intuitive Operation Integrated, Pressure Activated Laser Pointer (IR or Red) Automatic Brightness Compensation Easy Bore Sighting Sleep Mode Reflex sight, solid prism not holographic Quick release mount on Picatinny rail Easy zeroing of Reflex Sight and Laser with single adjustment Coated optics without glare or corona affect in the sight window Undetectable aiming dot with NVGs from the front Replaces multiple "bolt on" components World-wide military and law enforcement usage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted September 5, 2014 I am not impressed with those specs, especially at that price...... The IDF can suck it. I don't know where they get the reputation of being such bad asses..... Sorry, I had to get that off my chest. Carry on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted September 5, 2014 An aimpoint t-1/h-1 looks right at home on just about any gun with the right mount. Even on a butt ugly ak. I'm an eotech fan, with that said, my next RDS will probably be an h-1 Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted September 5, 2014 Seen the Mepro on the Tavor, Very nice looking but never used it personally The aimpoint and Eotechs are always a Safe option. Great optics BTW 489 is Quite high for a mepro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted September 5, 2014 The IDF can suck it. I don't know where they get the reputation of being such bad asses..... Why so Angry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
podmannj 0 Posted September 5, 2014 There is also a new sight from Meprolight called the Meprolight Tru-Dot RDS reviewed by MilitaryArms http://www.thebangswitch.com/meprolight-tru-dot/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted September 5, 2014 Why so Angry I think an IDF kicked his dog once Lol Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted September 5, 2014 hahaha, His dog should stop throwing stones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted September 5, 2014 while not authentic, why not try the trijicon SRS. it has a similar "look" but should be pretty nice quality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Displaced Texan 11,654 Posted September 5, 2014 while not authentic, why not try the trijicon SRS. it has a similar "look" but should be pretty nice quality. I really like my SRS, but it's a bit heavy for what it is. They are pretty rugged, though! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illy 1 Posted September 5, 2014 Why so Angry Lol. Although it doesn't piss me off the way it apparently does H.E., I get where he's coming from. Lots of people lionize the IDF like it's the greatest fighting force ever assembled. Even to the point of "I'll tool up however they do, even if I know it's not the best" or "Carry one in the pipe? For what? The IDF carries condition 3, so that's good enough for me". The reality is that they've got a good track record against lesser opponents. But they've never fought a major power and haven't ever fought alongside their closest ally (us) in any conflict we've been in. Not even the ones right next door.(See Col. Pat Lang's assessment of Israeli military prowess, organization and training) Not to mention the fact that the CIA considers Israel the greatest counterintelligence threat in the middle east. ***Full disclosure*** (lest I get branded something I'm not): Half my mom's family is Jewish, a bunch of whom live in Israel now and she has 4 cousins who served in the IDF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david8613 69 Posted September 6, 2014 That mepro true dot rds looks really good, light, mil spec, very simple, looks easy to use, Battery life is great, and I love that instant on feature. all dots should have this. I wanna order one for my tavor but I keep hearing they keep pushing the ship date, I guess the idf needs them more than we do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted September 6, 2014 I love that instant on feature. all dots should have this. Aimpoints do as well, sort of, you turn them on and leave them on. Once year you replace the battery to be paranoid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladtepes 1,060 Posted September 6, 2014 while I understand the interest in authenticity my experience with Aimpoint has been unreal... the quality is exceptional... and when you look at optics like the PRO the quality and value are barely comparable to anything else out there.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted September 6, 2014 Lol. Although it doesn't piss me off the way it apparently does H.E., I get where he's coming from. Lots of people lionize the IDF like it's the greatest fighting force ever assembled. Even to the point of "I'll tool up however they do, even if I know it's not the best" or "Carry one in the pipe? For what? The IDF carries condition 3, so that's good enough for me". The reality is that they've got a good track record against lesser opponents. But they've never fought a major power and haven't ever fought alongside their closest ally (us) in any conflict we've been in. Not even the ones right next door.(See Col. Pat Lang's assessment of Israeli military prowess, organization and training) Not to mention the fact that the CIA considers Israel the greatest counterintelligence threat in the middle east. ***Full disclosure*** (lest I get branded something I'm not): Half my mom's family is Jewish, a bunch of whom live in Israel now and she has 4 cousins who served in the IDF. ^^^^ This is a big part of it. Another part is I am a LEO in a predominately conservative/orthodox Jewish municipality. Lots of relatives from the motherland coming to visit, lots of young men and women residents going over to "do their part". I have met a lot of IDF personnel - but I don't think I have met an IDF member yet that wasn't "Isreali Special Forces" Inevitably they start telling me war stories. When I start asking questions or mentioning modern techniques used against complex foes they have no idea what I am talking about. Izzy tactics are poor - but work against the relatively untrained folks they are up against. They therefore feel like they are combat Gods and can tell everyone else how to do things - and for some God forsaken reason people who should know better buy into it. Another issue is I have seen them shoot, fight, and practice TTPs as instructors and fellow students in classes that I have taken. In a word: Clownshoes. Caveat: Krav Maga is extremely effective. Finally, the "tactical accessory" market is flooded with Izzy crap - Fobus, CAA, Meprolight, MAKO, etc... All expensive garbage that capitalizes in the Izzy "martial prowess". :vomit: There are a lot of better quality and more capable options, often times at a better price, than the stuff that had been IDF "approved". Yes, there are some extremely effective folks in the IDF. They are doing a hard job in a hard place. From a strategic point of view I admire their ability to make the hard choices and follow through in order to get it done regardless of outside opinion. I wish we had half the political will to win that the Isreali's do in the wars we have fought over the last 40 years. However, tactically - TTP and equipment wise -they need to STFU and stop drinking their own kool-ade. OP, if you want an RDS that actually works - get an Aimpoint PRO or T1. Being different sucks if the only way you differ from everyone else is that your shit doesn't work and theirs does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted September 7, 2014 Tactics Techniques & Procedures Shut the Fuck Up (forgot the U) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted September 7, 2014 Lol. Although it doesn't piss me off the way it apparently does H.E., I get where he's coming from. Lots of people lionize the IDF like it's the greatest fighting force ever assembled. Even to the point of "I'll tool up however they do, even if I know it's not the best" or "Carry one in the pipe? For what? The IDF carries condition 3, so that's good enough for me". The reality is that they've got a good track record against lesser opponents. But they've never fought a major power and haven't ever fought alongside their closest ally (us) in any conflict we've been in. Not even the ones right next door.(See Col. Pat Lang's assessment of Israeli military prowess, organization and training) Not to mention the fact that the CIA considers Israel the greatest counterintelligence threat in the middle east. ***Full disclosure*** (lest I get branded something I'm not): Half my mom's family is Jewish, a bunch of whom live in Israel now and she has 4 cousins who served in the IDF. I think the reason some might consider the IDF so elite is the fact that they have been fighting in a constant battle since the country was born. Just as us troops have recently gained alot of experience in urban combat the IDF already dealt with this for many many years. In regards to Israel fighting alone side the US in battle i think that would be called a political nightmare since we are pretty much waring with islamic crazy bastards. Israel would not do well when it comes to fighting a super power the numbers itself dont add up for them.... But in regards to fighting lessor powers im not sure i agree. Considering how many battles they have had with multiple fronts at the same time gives them some credit in dealing with enemies. I think the CIA might even consider gun owners a major threat spy game is spy game. Nothing you said would make any rational thinker consider you what you think they might have called you. no need to post your pedigree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted September 7, 2014 ^^^^ This is a big part of it. Another part is I am a LEO in a predominately conservative/orthodox Jewish municipality. Lots of relatives from the motherland coming to visit, lots of young men and women residents going over to "do their part". I have met a lot of IDF personnel - but I don't think I have met an IDF member yet that wasn't "Isreali Special Forces" Oh we have plenty of people in the jewish community that are completely full of shit. If they were special forces you would not know and they would not tell LOL Inevitably they start telling me war stories. When I start asking questions or mentioning modern techniques used against complex foes they have no idea what I am talking about. Izzy tactics are poor - but work against the relatively untrained folks they are up against. They therefore feel like they are combat Gods and can tell everyone else how to do things - and for some God forsaken reason people who should know better buy into it. I think they have fought some pretty big battles considering there population and numbers of active bodies. Im not putting them on a pedistal but i wont throw them under the bus. The us if also fighting a "untrained" force and look at the results. Another issue is I have seen them shoot, fight, and practice TTPs as instructors and fellow students in classes that I have taken. In a word: Clownshoes. Caveat: Krav Maga is extremely effective. Finally, the "tactical accessory" market is flooded with Izzy crap - Fobus, CAA, Meprolight, MAKO, etc... All expensive garbage that capitalizes in the Izzy "martial prowess". :vomit: There are a lot of better quality and more capable options, often times at a better price, than the stuff that had been IDF "approved". Yes, there are some extremely effective folks in the IDF. They are doing a hard job in a hard place. From a strategic point of view I admire their ability to make the hard choices and follow through in order to get it done regardless of outside opinion. I wish we had half the political will to win that the Isreali's do in the wars we have fought over the last 40 years. I second that i wish we have the politicians that were willing to make the hard choices. But even Israel has some blundering politicians as in the Hezbollah fight. a few years back... They pretty much had the jewish version of Obama running things and it did not work out so well However, tactically - TTP and equipment wise -they need to STFU and stop drinking their own kool-ade. OP, if you want an RDS that actually works - get an Aimpoint PRO or T1. Being different sucks if the only way you differ from everyone else is that your shit doesn't work and theirs does. Some of the reputation the IDF has is strictly based on experience prior to Gulf war (1) most us service men did not have true battle experience as a whole.. Sure we had our select groups that did but the overall force was not battle experienced this goes for US airforce as well, its not that israel has better pilots but they had MUCH more experience prior to gulf war (1) then the US. with that being said GOD BLESS THE USA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted September 7, 2014 Having chatted with some IDF boys I have come to the conclusion that they have some funny ideas about things. As a result I simply conclude their needs/wants are significantly different than my needs/wants. Therefore I pay no mind to their selections. But I find this is true with most things/groups/units etc etc. So if you are a collector and just want authentic, go for it. If you intend on using the system, get what best fits your needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jfoster99 80 Posted September 7, 2014 Here is a nice article in Shotgun News on the Reflex sights used on the Tavor.. http://www.shotgunnews.com/guns/rifles/the-hebrew-hammer-iwi-tavor-review/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted September 7, 2014 I think the reason some might consider the IDF so elite is the fact that they have been fighting in a constant battle since the country was born. So does that mean the PLO/HAMAS/ISIS are elite too? Anyway, this should be a different topic. We are cluttering this optic thread with off-topic stuff now. Apologies to the OP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted September 7, 2014 So does that mean the PLO/HAMAS/ISIS are elite too? Anyway, this should be a different topic. We are cluttering this optic thread with off-topic stuff now. Apologies to the OP. No as they are not on the winning side for the most part LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites