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Israel IDF tested Tavor sights

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Researching sights for a possible Tavor purchase... I want to stick with something that the IDF has given a thumbs up to.

Price is I portent but not the main consideration. I like the idea of integrated PTT with the existing button on rifle.

 

Does anyone have any experience or recommendations with any of the 3 red dots and/or 3x magnifier????

 

1) MeproLight Mepro 21 - $489.00

2) MSE AQC-1C - $729.00

3) ITL M.A.R.S ( by Fraser-Volpe) $979.00

Magnifier) Mepro MX3 3x Magnifier - $530.00

 

EOTech are nice but not the only excellent Reflex sight... I want something different that not everyone else has... And that is "Mil-Spec" accurate.. If that is even a term... Basically I want to use what the IDF is or will be using..

 

 

Pictures and details are Below

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Mepro MX3 3x Magnifier - $530.00

( is this the only 3X Magnifier the IDF uses?)

http://www.opticsplanet.com/mako-group-3x-magnifier-for-reflex-and-red-dot-sights.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=plusbox-beta&gclid=CIC7r9DzyMACFUVo7AodPAUAYQ

 

post-5151-140988137439_thumb.jpg

 

 

MeproLight Mepro 21 - $489.00

 

http://www.opticsplanet.com/mako-group-self-powered-day-night-reflex-sight-w-dust-cover.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=plusbox-beta&gclid=CKzNvazvyMACFQwV7AodAUgAwg

 

post-5151-140988142794_thumb.jpg

 

 

MSE AQC-1C - $729.00

 

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-accessories/command-arms-mse-sight-detail.html?Itemid=0

 

post-5151-140988148402_thumb.jpg

 

 

ITL M.A.R.S ( by Fraser-Volpe) $979.00

 

http://www.opticsplanet.com/fraser-volpe-mars-multi-purpose-aiming-reflex-sight-red-wpic-adr.html

 

post-5151-140988152669_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

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My only experience out of those is the Mepro M21.  I did not like it at all and would never buy one. 

 

The fit to the rail was poor and the sight rattled around on it (mounted on a Tavor).  When asked Mepro said this was somewhat normal.

 

The reticle is fine in bright light or complete dark but gets washed out in anything in between.  A cloudy day, shooting from a shadow into sunlight, etc and you might have difficulty seeing it.  There are way better options out there. 

 

If you are dead set on a red dot get an Aimpoint PRO and call it a day.  If you want the 3x magnifier Aimpoint and EoTech both make good ones.

 

For the cost of that though you can get a really nice 1-4 or 1-6x scope.  Look at the Vortex PST or Gen II line, SWFA, or a used Steiner or USO scope.  They can all be had for the price of a red dot and 3x combined.

 

With these you get all the benefits of a red dot with the ability to switch magnification quickly in one unit.  The PST will run you $500 in a mount, the others can be had used for around $1k.

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- are you looking for "Authenticity" or "Quality"?

'

ETA: I wouldn't use any of the optics listed if given a choice.

I would be willing to sacrifice some Quality for Authenticity...

 

I'm sure a setup like this works just fine but.... Let's just say it's not for me...

 

post-5151-140989036884_thumb.jpg

 

 

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I would be willing to sacrifice some Quality for Authenticity...

 

I'm sure a setup like this works just fine but.... Let's just say it's not for me...

 

attachicon.gifImageUploadedByTapatalk1409890356.758365.jpg

 

Well then just get the Mepro, thats what they put on most of their Tavors.  I have to say thats some flawed logic though...

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My only experience out of those is the Mepro M21. I did not like it at all and would never buy one.

 

If you are dead set on a red dot get an Aimpoint PRO and call it a day. If you want the 3x magnifier Aimpoint and EoTech both make good ones.

 

.

Thanks for the M21 feedback... Most reviews I saw we positive... Good to get another perspective...

 

I am a recreational shooter and barring an EOTWAWKI scenario I won't be putting my life on the line with this gun. I kind of want to stay away from he Eotech/Aimpoint for this build and do something that will complement each other.

 

 

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. I have to say thats some flawed logic though...

That is why I was leaning towards the ITL M.A.R.S. I think it is what the IDF is upgrading to. It has some impressive specs.. 1 MOA, internal Laser, PTT controls integral with the for-grip, ect...

 

There is not much first hand info out there on it... Very little on YouTube. None of the main reviewers have evaluated it.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The specs seem nice......

 

1x

Sight exit aperture: 25mm

Reflex dot diameter: 0.3mRad (about 1" @ 100m)

Parallax: <0.2mRad at infinity

Light transmission: 85% for photopic response

Red dot compensation: Automatic, dynamic range = 1

Dot intensity control: OFF, HIGH, MEDIUM, LOW, VERY LOW 5 positions (NVGs)

Optical distortion: 0.5o angular deviation of parallel light beams through the sight

Red: 650nm, 1.0 mW, Class 2 (IEC 825-1)

IR (optional): 850nm, 0.4 mW, Class 1 (IEC 825-1)**restricted to law enforcement and military only

Beam divergence: 0.5mRad

Zeroing

Adjustment: Reflex sight and pointing lasers adjusted with one operation

Physical

Weight: 15.2oz. with battery and cable

Dimensions: 4.9in (L), 1.7in (W), 3.4in (H)

Adapter: Picatinny rail

Electrical

Power Source: Single 1.5V "AA" battery

Reflex Sight operation: 200hr continuous

Laser pointer: 10,000 operations of 5 sec each

Low voltage warning: @ 1V ±0.1V, non-interfering with sight operation

Reliability

Laser switch lifetime: Min 40,000 operations

Environmental

Temperature Range: -20° C to +55° C MIL STD 810F

Humidity: 95% at +70° C

Thermal shock: -20° C to +70° C

Immersion: 1m, 30min. Salt fog, dust and sand

Altitude: 15,000ft-50,000ft (non-operating)

Shock: 30g for 11ms

Features of FraserVolpe Reflex Sight MARS:

Rugged Construction

Simple, Intuitive Operation

Integrated, Pressure Activated Laser Pointer (IR or Red)

Automatic Brightness Compensation

Easy Bore Sighting

Sleep Mode

Reflex sight, solid prism not holographic

Quick release mount on Picatinny rail

Easy zeroing of Reflex Sight and Laser with single adjustment

Coated optics without glare or corona affect in the sight window

Undetectable aiming dot with NVGs from the front

Replaces multiple "bolt on" components

World-wide military and law enforcement usage

 

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while not authentic, why not try the trijicon SRS. it has a similar "look" but should be pretty nice quality.

I really like my SRS, but it's a bit heavy for what it is.

They are pretty rugged, though!

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Why so Angry :)

Lol.

 

Although it doesn't piss me off the way it apparently does H.E., I get where he's coming from. Lots of people lionize the IDF like it's the greatest fighting force ever assembled. Even to the point of "I'll tool up however they do, even if I know it's not the best" or "Carry one in the pipe? For what? The IDF carries condition 3, so that's good enough for me".

 

The reality is that they've got a good track record against lesser opponents. But they've never fought a major power and haven't ever fought alongside their closest ally (us) in any conflict we've been in. Not even the ones right next door.(See Col. Pat Lang's assessment of Israeli military prowess, organization and training)

 

Not to mention the fact that the CIA considers Israel the greatest counterintelligence threat in the middle east.

 

***Full disclosure*** (lest I get branded something I'm not):

Half my mom's family is Jewish, a bunch of whom live in Israel now and she has 4 cousins who served in the IDF.

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That mepro true dot rds looks really good, light, mil spec, very simple, looks easy to use, Battery life is great, and I love that instant on feature. all dots should have this. I wanna order one for my tavor but I keep hearing they keep pushing the ship date, I guess the idf needs them more than we do.

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Lol.

 

Although it doesn't piss me off the way it apparently does H.E., I get where he's coming from. Lots of people lionize the IDF like it's the greatest fighting force ever assembled. Even to the point of "I'll tool up however they do, even if I know it's not the best" or "Carry one in the pipe? For what? The IDF carries condition 3, so that's good enough for me".

 

The reality is that they've got a good track record against lesser opponents. But they've never fought a major power and haven't ever fought alongside their closest ally (us) in any conflict we've been in. Not even the ones right next door.(See Col. Pat Lang's assessment of Israeli military prowess, organization and training)

 

Not to mention the fact that the CIA considers Israel the greatest counterintelligence threat in the middle east.

 

***Full disclosure*** (lest I get branded something I'm not):

Half my mom's family is Jewish, a bunch of whom live in Israel now and she has 4 cousins who served in the IDF.

^^^^ This is a big part of it.

 

Another part is I am a LEO in a predominately conservative/orthodox Jewish municipality. Lots of relatives from the motherland coming to visit, lots of young men and women residents going over to "do their part". I have met a lot of IDF personnel - but I don't think I have met an IDF member yet that wasn't "Isreali Special Forces" :rolleyes:

 

Inevitably they start telling me war stories. When I start asking questions or mentioning modern techniques used against complex foes they have no idea what I am talking about.

 

Izzy tactics are poor - but work against the relatively untrained folks they are up against. They therefore feel like they are combat Gods and can tell everyone else how to do things - and for some God forsaken reason people who should know better buy into it.

 

Another issue is I have seen them shoot, fight, and practice TTPs as instructors and fellow students in classes that I have taken. In a word: Clownshoes. Caveat: Krav Maga is extremely effective.

 

Finally, the "tactical accessory" market is flooded with Izzy crap - Fobus, CAA, Meprolight, MAKO, etc... All expensive garbage that capitalizes in the Izzy "martial prowess". :vomit: There are a lot of better quality and more capable options, often times at a better price, than the stuff that had been IDF "approved".

 

Yes, there are some extremely effective folks in the IDF. They are doing a hard job in a hard place. From a strategic point of view I admire their ability to make the hard choices and follow through in order to get it done regardless of outside opinion. I wish we had half the political will to win that the Isreali's do in the wars we have fought over the last 40 years.

 

However, tactically - TTP and equipment wise -they need to STFU and stop drinking their own kool-ade.

 

OP, if you want an RDS that actually works - get an Aimpoint PRO or T1. Being different sucks if the only way you differ from everyone else is that your shit doesn't work and theirs does.

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Lol.

 

Although it doesn't piss me off the way it apparently does H.E., I get where he's coming from. Lots of people lionize the IDF like it's the greatest fighting force ever assembled. Even to the point of "I'll tool up however they do, even if I know it's not the best" or "Carry one in the pipe? For what? The IDF carries condition 3, so that's good enough for me".

 

The reality is that they've got a good track record against lesser opponents. But they've never fought a major power and haven't ever fought alongside their closest ally (us) in any conflict we've been in. Not even the ones right next door.(See Col. Pat Lang's assessment of Israeli military prowess, organization and training)

 

Not to mention the fact that the CIA considers Israel the greatest counterintelligence threat in the middle east.

 

***Full disclosure*** (lest I get branded something I'm not):

Half my mom's family is Jewish, a bunch of whom live in Israel now and she has 4 cousins who served in the IDF.

 

I think the reason some might consider the IDF so elite is the fact that they have been fighting in a constant battle since the country was born. Just as us troops have recently gained alot of experience in urban combat the IDF already dealt with this for many many years.

 

In regards to Israel fighting alone side the US in battle i think that would be called a political nightmare since we are pretty much waring with islamic crazy bastards.

 

Israel would not do well when it comes to fighting a super power the numbers itself dont add up for them.... But in regards to fighting lessor powers im not sure i agree. Considering how many battles they have had with multiple fronts at the same time gives them some credit in dealing with enemies.

 

I think the CIA might even consider gun owners a major threat :)  spy game is spy game.

 

Nothing you said would make any rational thinker consider you what you think they might have called you. no need to post your pedigree.

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^^^^ This is a big part of it.

 

Another part is I am a LEO in a predominately conservative/orthodox Jewish municipality. Lots of relatives from the motherland coming to visit, lots of young men and women residents going over to "do their part". I have met a lot of IDF personnel - but I don't think I have met an IDF member yet that wasn't "Isreali Special Forces" :rolleyes:

 

Oh we have plenty of people in the jewish community that are completely full of shit. If they were special forces you would not know and they would not tell LOL

Inevitably they start telling me war stories. When I start asking questions or mentioning modern techniques used against complex foes they have no idea what I am talking about.

 

Izzy tactics are poor - but work against the relatively untrained folks they are up against. They therefore feel like they are combat Gods and can tell everyone else how to do things - and for some God forsaken reason people who should know better buy into it.

 

I think they have fought some pretty big battles considering there population and numbers of active bodies. Im not putting them on a pedistal but i wont throw them under the bus. The us if also fighting a "untrained" force and look at the results.

Another issue is I have seen them shoot, fight, and practice TTPs as instructors and fellow students in classes that I have taken. In a word: Clownshoes. Caveat: Krav Maga is extremely effective.

 

Finally, the "tactical accessory" market is flooded with Izzy crap - Fobus, CAA, Meprolight, MAKO, etc... All expensive garbage that capitalizes in the Izzy "martial prowess". :vomit: There are a lot of better quality and more capable options, often times at a better price, than the stuff that had been IDF "approved".

 

Yes, there are some extremely effective folks in the IDF. They are doing a hard job in a hard place. From a strategic point of view I admire their ability to make the hard choices and follow through in order to get it done regardless of outside opinion. I wish we had half the political will to win that the Isreali's do in the wars we have fought over the last 40 years.

 

I second that i wish we have the politicians that were willing to make the hard choices. But even Israel has some blundering politicians as in the Hezbollah fight. a few years back... They pretty much had the jewish version of Obama running things and it did not work out so well :)

However, tactically - TTP and equipment wise -they need to STFU and stop drinking their own kool-ade.

 

OP, if you want an RDS that actually works - get an Aimpoint PRO or T1. Being different sucks if the only way you differ from everyone else is that your shit doesn't work and theirs does.

 

Some of the reputation the IDF has is strictly based on experience prior to Gulf war (1) most us service men did not have true battle experience as a whole.. Sure we had our select groups that did but the overall force was not battle experienced this goes for US airforce as well, its not that israel has better pilots but they had MUCH more experience prior to gulf war (1) then the US. with that being said GOD BLESS THE USA!

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Having chatted with some IDF boys I have come to the conclusion that they have some funny ideas about things. As a result I simply conclude their needs/wants are significantly different than my needs/wants. Therefore I pay no mind to their selections. But I find this is true with most things/groups/units etc etc. So if you are a collector and just want authentic, go for it. If you intend on using the system, get what best fits your needs.

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I think the reason some might consider the IDF so elite is the fact that they have been fighting in a constant battle since the country was born.

So does that mean the PLO/HAMAS/ISIS are elite too?

 

Anyway, this should be a different topic. We are cluttering this optic thread with off-topic stuff now.

 

Apologies to the OP.

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So does that mean the PLO/HAMAS/ISIS are elite too?

 

Anyway, this should be a different topic. We are cluttering this optic thread with off-topic stuff now.

 

Apologies to the OP.

No as they are not on the winning side for the most part LOL

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