Defensive Shooting Drills for a Static Range

[Smokin .50 1,907]

The dummy round drill can not differentiate a pre ignition push from a post ignition push.  Both will look like a flinch, one is not

 

I don't see how a striker fire gun complicates anything.  Keep the sights on target until the shot breaks

Somehow I am able to determine the difference at the sound of the "click" while intently observing a trainee.  The dummy round drill, when observed by a trained Fudd like me, is VERY telling, no matter the platform.  I can't be the ONLY trained target AND action shooter that can see movement PRIOR to ignition "click" as witnessed thousands of times.  Follow-through (something that some Action Shooters FORGET because they're merely waiting for trigger to re-set) is a lost art, especially with Newbies using out-of-the-box striker-fired guns.  Sight alignment at point of ignition (NO flinch) is a good start.  Correct follow-through eliminates the entire mess.  I tell folks to "just let the EXPLOSION happen" and consciously try NOT to flinch.  ZERO gun movement on the snap-cap.  In a striker-fired gun with a typical stock trigger it takes less than a box of ammo (with a good Instructor utilizing intense dry-fire).  With a wheelgun in single-action mode I can get a student into the 10-X ring within the first 12 shots at 10 yards distance.  I apply the same technique to engage targets at 50 Yards, having earned my NRA Distinguished Expert.  Often for a challenge, from the freestyle position, I'll hit clay birds from 50 yards away with my pistols.  Those that flinch or can't follow-through can only find the berm......

[Vlad G 345]

I'll share one dry fire drill that has worked for me for controlling trigger press, while practicing reloads. This requires about 6-7 ft of space, a miniature target ( I use a 1/4 sized uspsa target) and a timer of some sort, although it can be an phone timer app instead of a real timer for this purposes.

 

I set my timer to 1sec par time, with 4 seconds +/- 1 sec random delay start so it will start beep between 3 and 5 seconds. I do this standing at the edge of my bed, for a reason I'll explain shortly.

 

The drill is standing with handgun in hand aimed at the target, press the start button on the timer, aim at the target and press the trigger as fast as possible and as many times as possible while maintaining an acceptable sight picture and waiting for the delayed start.

 

When the timer goes off perform a reload trying to beat the 1sec part time, and get back on target pressing the trigger as fast as possible for the next few seconds while maintaining a good sight picture.

 

If my expelled magazine lands on the bed I place it back in the mag pouch it came from and start over. If it bounce on the ground, I leave it be and I continue the drill with the next mag in next mag pouch (there are 4 on my belt) . Repeat until you run out of mags on the belt, pick them all up off the floor and repeat until your arms hurt.

 

While you have the timer out, practice draws from different starting positions as well. Leave it on 1sec par time.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

NICE!  ^^^That Wall Drill is similar in concept to what I do now.  Eliminating sight / gun movement as the sear breaks is the goal of a great pistol shot.

 

And as far as recoil control for follow-up shots, you are of course correct.  Good action shooters often get "snake eyes" in the Alpa Zone when engaging targets up-close!  Your technique exemplifies this.

[2Alpha 6]

Somehow I am able to determine the difference at the sound of the "click" while intently observing a trainee.  The dummy round drill, when observed by a trained Fudd like me, is VERY telling, no matter the platform.  I can't be the ONLY trained target AND action shooter that can see movement PRIOR to ignition "click" as witnessed thousands of times.  Follow-through (something that some Action Shooters FORGET because they're merely waiting for trigger to re-set) is a lost art, especially with Newbies using out-of-the-box striker-fired guns.  Sight alignment at point of ignition (NO flinch) is a good start.  Correct follow-through eliminates the entire mess.  I tell folks to "just let the EXPLOSION happen" and consciously try NOT to flinch.  ZERO gun movement on the snap-cap.  In a striker-fired gun with a typical stock trigger it takes less than a box of ammo (with a good Instructor utilizing intense dry-fire).  With a wheelgun in single-action mode I can get a student into the 10-X ring within the first 12 shots at 10 yards distance.  I apply the same technique to engage targets at 50 Yards, having earned my NRA Distinguished Expert.  Often for a challenge, from the freestyle position, I'll hit clay birds from 50 yards away with my pistols.  Those that flinch or can't follow-through can only find the berm......

 

Have you ever worked with a shooter that has a post ignition push? 

 

NRA qualifications have zero need for recoil control, (6 shots in 10 seconds), nor does shooting clays at 50 yards.  Defensive shooting does.  When you start shooting fast, you need to drive the gun, that is done with post ignition push

[Vlad G 345]

It should be noted that in my drill above, I do end up moving the sights with my trigger press somewhat. I'm looking for calling A shots on the target, not one shot groups. I'm not a Ransom rest and with any degree of speed I will induce movement in the sights, my goal with that drill is reasonable sight control at speed, not pin point precision.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Yep I have worked with all sorts of shooters.  And I've gotten "snake-eyes" myself......

 

In the strictest sense, you're somewhat incorrect about ZERO need for recoil control during timed rapid fire at other disciplines.  Your point about driving the gun is well taken.

 

Keep in mind that Jon (the OP) started the thread for folks that train at indoor ranges where shooting FAST ("drivin' the gun") to get "snake-eyes" gets you asked to leave.......

 

What techniques can YOU share with us?

[2Alpha 6]

Techniques, sure.  grip the shit out of the gun, drive the gun out, none of that push / pull crap.  Make sure the sights return immediately to point of aim, fine tune your grip until they do.  This is the most important aspect for shooting fast and accurate.  The front sight must return to point of aim.

 

For drills. there are none that will help you learn to shoot fast and accurate, if you are not allowed to do so.  , Shooting slow won't, dry firing won't.  So join a range that will allow you to shoot the way you need to. it is the only way to learn.    

 

From actual drills.  Dot torture mentioned above is the best drill for this. Bill drills are excellent too   

 

The whole snake eyes thing is meaning less without splits, what are your splits, bill drill times, el prez times?

[checko 180]

So Checko you don't have any interest in the two most popular action shooting games. Well maybe competition isn't for you if you decided to dismiss them based on .. well I don't know on what .. but if neither of those work for you then I think you are out of luck there.

Like I said before, I am looking to give IDPA another try. But you're right, maybe competition isn't for me. I'm OK with that.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

 

[2Alpha 6]

Like I said before, I am looking to give IDPA another try. But you're right, maybe competition isn't for me. I'm OK with that.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Competitions are very inefficient way to train. Maybe take some defense classes

[1LtCAP 4,263]

Just because the gun moves when it goes click, doesn't mean you are flinching. The target will tell you that. Not the movement of the gun

i thought i'd stopped flinching or pulling when i was shooting. i have crimson trace grips on my beretta. i turned it on for the first time, aimed....and just before the gun went off, the dot went away. down. every round. $%$%%$#!!!  after i saw that, i practiced a bit more(dry firing), then went back to the range......dot stayed right where i was aiming till the gun went off, then obviously moved with recoil.

[2Alpha 6]

i thought i'd stopped flinching or pulling when i was shooting. i have crimson trace grips on my beretta. i turned it on for the first time, aimed....and just before the gun went off, the dot went away. down. every round. $%$%%$#!!! after i saw that, i practiced a bit more(dry firing), then went back to the range......dot stayed right where i was aiming till the gun went off, then obviously moved with recoil.

That because you were flinching (pre ignition push) which caused bad shots. Post ignition push will not cause bad shots, but looks the same when the gun goes click

[Smokin .50 1,907]

 The BIG difference is when ya hear the CLICK and see the movement.  And like it or not, getting folks to NOT FLINCH comes PRIOR to teachin' 'em how to "take the ride" and manage recoil and reset for a follow-up shot.  Newbies need to crawl before they walk and walk before they run.  1LtCAP's use of the laser sight is a good example.  Gun goes click and sight doesn't move, so round goes where it's AIMED...

 

Again, the OP's question pertained to what folks can do in a restricted environment.  Something as simple as picking the gun up from the shooting table and engaging a target during a timed but limited COF will help with accuracy and muscle memory as well as point-out a proper grip is essential.  The basics of Point Shooting could also be learned in a Port at an indoor Range, provided you don't "buy" the walls, floor or ceiling.  "Splits" , "El-Prez's and the like come later with more advanced training in a less restrictive environment.

[2Alpha 6]

The BIG difference is when ya hear the CLICK and see the movement. And like it or not, getting folks to NOT FLINCH comes PRIOR to teachin' 'em how to "take the ride" and manage recoil and reset for a follow-up shot. Newbies need to crawl before they walk and walk before they run. 1LtCAP's use of the laser sight is a good example. Gun goes click and sight doesn't move, so round goes where it's AIMED...

 

Again, the OP's question pertained to what folks can do in a restricted environment. Something as simple as picking the gun up from the shooting table and engaging a target during a timed but limited COF will help with accuracy and muscle memory as well as point-out a proper grip is essential. The basics of Point Shooting could also be learned in a Port at an indoor Range, provided you don't "buy" the walls, floor or ceiling. "Splits" , "El-Prez's and the like come later with more advanced training in a less restrictive environment.

So if you put 5 rounds in a gun, tell me to do a bill drill, I have 5 nicely grouped As and on the six shot the gun goes click and it moves, you say I have a flinch?

 

My question about splits, bill drills and el prez times were directed solely at you Smokin 50. You don't seem to grasp the basic concept of post ignition push. so me asking what your times are, is to see if you are a skill level were post ignition push would be useful

[Smokin .50 1,907]

So if you put 5 rounds in a gun, tell me to do a bill drill, I have 5 nicely grouped As and on the six shot the gun goes click and it moves, you say I have a flinch?

 

My question about splits, bill drills and el prez times were directed solely at you Smokin 50. You don't seem to grasp the basic concept of post ignition push. so me asking what your times are, is to see if you are a skill level were post ignition push would be useful

 

Now you're being blatantly ridiculous, and for what reason?  I get your "driving the gun" explanation and agree with it, as I do the same thing during that exercise.  Taming recoil and getting back on target is not sumthin' that's exclusive to USPSA Grand Masters.  You nor USPSA invented "pushing".  This shouldn't "get personal" with you calling me out, for I already answered this same question a long while back and am still waiting for MY answer as to YOUR times, lol, or don't you remember?  Back then all I heard was CRICKETS....  How about you dismount from that high horse yer ridin' and become part of the solution instead of pontificating "just join a range that allows you to train w/ rapid fire" (I'm paraphrasing).  And if you wanna "see my skill level" to determine if I'm able to benefit from post ignition push or any other technique, meet me at the range.  Just bring enough cash for TWO dinners and be prepared to do more than just USPSA cause I'm not a One-Trick Pony!

 

Shooting from a restricted, "no rapid fire" port is what the OP started this with.  Any chance this thread can get back to THAT?  

[2Alpha 6]

Now you're being blatantly ridiculous, and for what reason?  I get your "driving the gun" explanation and agree with it, as I do the same thing during that exercise.  Taming recoil and getting back on target is not sumthin' that's exclusive to USPSA Grand Masters.  You nor USPSA invented "pushing".  This shouldn't "get personal" with you calling me out, for I already answered this same question a long while back and am still waiting for MY answer as to YOUR times, lol, or don't you remember?  Back then all I heard was CRICKETS....  How about you dismount from that high horse yer ridin' and become part of the solution instead of pontificating "just join a range that allows you to train w/ rapid fire" (I'm paraphrasing).  And if you wanna "see my skill level" to determine if I'm able to benefit from post ignition push or any other technique, meet me at the range.  Just bring enough cash for TWO dinners and be prepared to do more than just USPSA cause I'm not a One-Trick Pony!

 

Shooting from a restricted, "no rapid fire" port is what the OP started this with.  Any chance this thread can get back to THAT?  

 

I don't see any of your times in this thread, nor a request for mine.  But here they are.  my bill drill are under 2s and my el prez are under 5s

 

I found a video of you shooting and your uspsa #, so I have a good idea of your skill now

[Sandy 44]

Have someone else load yer mags and slip-in a snap-cap every-so-often.  It will teach you how bad you SUCK as the gun moves and just clicks w/o a BANG!  Once ya get ridda da flinch, you can practice TAP-RACK-BANG drills with the snap-caps........

 

And try using ALL of a 25 yard range instead of being a Pussy and shooting up-close for every shot!  If you get ridda da flinch you might stay on the paper......

 

Have FUN and be SAFE!

 

 

Another one to work on is reload drills. Load three mags, put two on your belt and one in the gun. Fire two shots and then do a tac load with one from your belt. Fire two more and repeat the tac load followed by two more shots. For ranges that don't allow drawing from a holster start from a retention hold.

 

Replace the partial mags onto your belt and do it again. To mix it up put slightly different numbers of rounds in your mags at the start. By the time you've run it a few times you don't know which mag is which and you'll unexpectedly come to a slidelock reload when you're expecting a tac load.

 

 

There are a bunch of good drills here, many of which can be shot on a static range:  http://pistol-training.com/drills.  For example, Dot Torture is an excellent drill:  http://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture

 

 

That was the problem right there with the boredom. 

 

 

I have a lot of thoughts in this topic, but as of yet have not had time to compose my thoughts fully.

 

Until then I will say this: Some anticipation is actually required when shooting fast - as you would in a close-in defensive engagement. The post-ignition "flinch" is actually helpful - arguably necessary - for controlling recoil.

 

Instead if a ball and dummy drill I prefer to conduct a "wall drill" - which isolates and diagnoses the pre-ignition flinch (which is not helpful and not needed for recoil control) and reinforces trigger control.

 

WALL DRILL

 

• Keep the muzzle 1" from your target - a 1/2" circle

 

• Aim in

 

• Dry fire 15 times perfectly - controlling the trigger to reset each time. If your finger comes off the trigger or if there is any movement of the front sight seen - stop, take a breath, reset your grip/stance/sight alignment and start your 15 dry fires over.

 

• Step back to the 1 yard line. Load and charge the pistol.

 

• Fire 5 rounds for tightest group - rounds should be touching, if not in the same hole.

 

• Repeat 2x. If it is easy move back yard by yard/foot by foot until it is not.

 

If at any time at the range you feel your group is opening up, or you are getting sloppy on the trigger, stop what you are doing and shoot this drill 1x.

 

 

I'll share one dry fire drill that has worked for me for controlling trigger press, while practicing reloads. This requires about 6-7 ft of space, a miniature target ( I use a 1/4 sized uspsa target) and a timer of some sort, although it can be an phone timer app instead of a real timer for this purposes.

 

I set my timer to 1sec par time, with 4 seconds +/- 1 sec random delay start so it will start beep between 3 and 5 seconds. I do this standing at the edge of my bed, for a reason I'll explain shortly.

 

The drill is standing with handgun in hand aimed at the target, press the start button on the timer, aim at the target and press the trigger as fast as possible and as many times as possible while maintaining an acceptable sight picture and waiting for the delayed start.

 

When the timer goes off perform a reload trying to beat the 1sec part time, and get back on target pressing the trigger as fast as possible for the next few seconds while maintaining a good sight picture.

 

If my expelled magazine lands on the bed I place it back in the mag pouch it came from and start over. If it bounce on the ground, I leave it be and I continue the drill with the next mag in next mag pouch (there are 4 on my belt) . Repeat until you run out of mags on the belt, pick them all up off the floor and repeat until your arms hurt.

 

While you have the timer out, practice draws from different starting positions as well. Leave it on 1sec par time.

Just isolating all the useful info for OP lol

[Alex V 99]

http://pistol-training.com/drills

 

TONS of great drills, including downloadable targets. 

[Golf battery 1,223]

Friggin nitwits i cant grasp it. Death or impailment seems immeninent Why. Just why