HK GmbH Close to defaulting on bonds/loans

[Kaiser7 33]

If they go public I'm buying some shares in H&K.

 

I doubt they will go under, they can rebound given time.

Same. Most people who don't know about business think that large debt, or even going bankrupt is the end of a company, but that's only the case if it's so desired, or if there are no other avenues.

 

If anything, this could be good for civilian shooters. Not sure about the whole export thing, but if HK can circumvent the German government's exporting thing by manufacturing more stuff at their US facilities, then it might encourage them to pander to the civilian market more, and maybe shift more of their production here.

[lunker 274]

I have owned a few HKs (P2000, a few P7 variants). I have dealt with their customer service a few times and have always been impressed. Nice folks and inexpensive service.  

I have a Glock 34 and a P7 PSP. I need to keep telling myself I don't need another 9mm gun, but the VP9 does keep calling my name. Everyone raves about the trigger on it. I owned a Walther PPQ for a short while. The trigger on it was so nice that I was actually worried about ever having to draw it from a holster. It was way to easy to go bang bang when you only wanted to go bang. I decided I can live with my Glock 5 pound trigger. The reset isn't as short as the PPQ's, but it is more crisp and has a good tactile response. Hopefully the HK's isn't that light. 

Maybe I can shoot someone else's VP9 and maybe I'll hate it.

[MidwestPX 172]

Maybe not for long. In order to fix their asset problem, they might turn towards selling stock.

 

I don't think they'll truly go under. Krupp of Essen racked up far larger debts (relative to inflation), but came back, multiple times. This was in no small part because Krupp was the, "Anvil of the Reich" (specifically the Second Reich, but also the Third). HK likely holds a similar position in modern Germany. Besides, they have so many patents, and such great brand recognition that they'd likely be bought out by another gun company (I pray to God not freedom group), or as I alluded to earlier, they might be forced to go public.

It would amuse me if FN acquired HK.

[Vlad G 345]

It would amuse me if FN acquired HK.

 

Oh god. Don't even say that. I just listened to the FN VP of sales tell 400 people that they have no idea what the civilian market wants, pretty much in those words.  When I told my buddy about it he suggested that they'll do what every other big multinational does, they'll just buy someone about to go out of business.

 

And now you say the above ...

[MidwestPX 172]

Oh god. Don't even say that. I just listen to the FN VP of sales tell 400 people that they have no idea what the civilian market wants, pretty much in those words.  When I told my buddy about it he suggested that they'll do what every other big multinational does, they'll just buy someone about to go out of business.

 

And now you say the above ...

Haha, that's why it would amuse me. It would be the blind leading the blind. I swear the release of the SCAR rifles to the commercial market was a fluke for FN...

[Vlad G 345]

Its very strange, I like a lot about FN as a company and I have a hard time thinking of one of their products I want to spend money on. But thats a conversation for another thread.

[Carcano 14]

Same. Most people who don't know about business think that large debt, or even going bankrupt is the end of a company, but that's only the case if it's so desired, or if there are no other avenues.

 

If anything, this could be good for civilian shooters. Not sure about the whole export thing, but if HK can circumvent the German government's exporting thing by manufacturing more stuff at their US facilities, then it might encourage them to pander to the civilian market more, and maybe shift more of their production here.

 

Bring back the HK-91, HK-93, etc. civilian clones now that the federal AWB is out of the way and build them in the USA.

 

Dosen't HK have the factory in VA still?

 

If not, send some damn tooling over here and put some people to work. People WILL buy HK civilian verions of the Military firearms they offer, in the 80's people were buying the semi MP5's like crazy (and the HK91, semi version of the G3) after seeing them in movies.

[Carcano 14]

Haha, that's why it would amuse me. It would be the blind leading the blind. I swear the release of the SCAR rifles to the commercial market was a fluke for FN...

 

FN...did someone say FN?

[Kaiser7 33]

Oh god. Don't even say that. I just listened to the FN VP of sales tell 400 people that they have no idea what the civilian market wants, pretty much in those words.  When I told my buddy about it he suggested that they'll do what every other big multinational does, they'll just buy someone about to go out of business.

 

And now you say the above ...

What's wrong with FN? Honestly, I'd be happy with a less-expensive 5-7, and maybe if the ammo was cheaper than it has been, that would really endear me towards FN. I like their stuff, but it's all too pricey for me.

 

Haha, that's why it would amuse me. It would be the blind leading the blind. I swear the release of the SCAR rifles to the commercial market was a fluke for FN...

What was wrong with releasing SCARs for the commercial market? It seemed like a lot of people had gungasms for them. Granted, their price was a bit high, but I didn't know that it was a flop for them. I'm really curious about this.

 

Bring back the HK-91, HK-93, etc. civilian clones now that the federal AWB is out of the way and build them in the USA.

 

Dosen't HK have the factory in VA still?

 

If not, send some damn tooling over here and put some people to work. People WILL buy HK civilian verions of the Military firearms they offer, in the 80's people were buying the semi MP5's like crazy (and the HK91, semi version of the G3) after seeing them in movies.

THIS. Come on, even though it's "old-tech" the MP5 is still awesome, and I know that I'd love to buy an MP7. I love pretty much all of HK's rifles (Don't know much about their handguns). I'd love to own some of that stuff. And it would be nice to have another company making them. Only one company makes HK-91 clones that i'm aware of.

[High Exposure 5,672]

THIS. Come on, even though it's "old-tech" the MP5 is still awesome, and I know that I'd love to buy an MP7. I love pretty much all of HK's rifles (Don't know much about their handguns). I'd love to own some of that stuff. And it would be nice to have another company making them. Only one company makes HK-91 clones that i'm aware of.

Quick point of order:

 

It's not the "technology" of the MP5 that's the issue. It's that we didn't know what we didn't know 30 years ago, and now after 13 years if war, we do. We know more about terminal ballistics and TTPs have changed appropriately to deal with current threats.

 

The sub-gun still has a niche role, it just isn't one that is appropriate for domestic law enforcement.

[Carcano 14]

Quick point of order:

 

It's not the "technology" of the MP5 that's the issue. It's that we didn't know what we didn't know 30 years ago, and now after 13 years if war, we do. We know more about terminal ballistics and TTPs have changed appropriately to deal with current threats.

 

The sub-gun still has a niche role, it just isn't one that is appropriate for domestic law enforcement.

 

That's why we learned 556 NATO was needed as the 9x19 subgun ammo just didn't cut it with the common availability of kevlar vests and helmets popping up in the hands of criminals and terrorists worldwide, LE and MIL headed over to the M4 and other 556 rifles/carbines.

 

The HK53 and HK43 are great on FA and are very accurate and easy to control. If I had to pick between an M16, AK, or HK53/43 I would take the HK53/43 IMO.

[Carcano 14]

What's wrong with FN? Honestly, I'd be happy with a less-expensive 5-7, and maybe if the ammo was cheaper than it has been, that would really endear me towards FN. I like their stuff, but it's all too pricey for me.

 

What was wrong with releasing SCARs for the commercial market? It seemed like a lot of people had gungasms for them. Granted, their price was a bit high, but I didn't know that it was a flop for them. I'm really curious about this.

 

THIS. Come on, even though it's "old-tech" the MP5 is still awesome, and I know that I'd love to buy an MP7. I love pretty much all of HK's rifles (Don't know much about their handguns). I'd love to own some of that stuff. And it would be nice to have another company making them. Only one company makes HK-91 clones that i'm aware of.

 

If you are looking for HK clones built to HK spec that are NJ legal check out http://www.kellyenterprises.net/vke-custom-german-series.html

 

Chuck is a great guy and I've bought several HK clones from him including the 556 and 308 clones, he will make them NJ compliant and the rifles carry a 5 year warranty by Vector Arms in UT.

 

Built on PTR receivers and the rest is done by Vector in UT, the VKE-91K rifle I bought from him is bad ass, 12.5 inch barrel with brake (making it legal) but that damn thing is LOUD.

 

If anyone is in SJ and wants to shoot it let me know

[High Exposure 5,672]

That's why we learned 556 NATO was needed as the 9x19 subgun ammo just didn't cut it with the common availability of kevlar vests and helmets popping up in the hands of criminals and terrorists worldwide, LE and MIL headed over to the M4 and other 556 rifles/carbines.

 

The HK53 and HK43 are great on FA and are very accurate and easy to control. If I had to pick between an M16, AK, or HK53/43 I would take the HK53/43 IMO.

It's not just the 9mm lack of ability to penetrate body armor that is the issue. It's the 9mm round's penchant for over penetration in typical domestic construction materials* (when compared to 5.56) and it's inability to support personnel's movement to an objective from distances greater than 50 yards or so with positive terminal effects.

 

Having fired all the FA weapons you listed, and quite a few you have not, I would take the M4

 

* Especially when fired from sub-gun length barrels (> 6")

 

/hijack

 

Now back to HK GmbH going under. Talk amongst yourselves

[Joe P. 4]

I have owned a few HKs (P2000, a few P7 variants). I have dealt with their customer service a few times and have always been impressed. Nice folks and inexpensive service.

I have a Glock 34 and a P7 PSP. I need to keep telling myself I don't need another 9mm gun, but the VP9 does keep calling my name. Everyone raves about the trigger on it. I owned a Walther PPQ for a short while. The trigger on it was so nice that I was actually worried about ever having to draw it from a holster. It was way to easy to go bang bang when you only wanted to go bang. I decided I can live with my Glock 5 pound trigger. The reset isn't as short as the PPQ's, but it is more crisp and has a good tactile response. Hopefully the HK's isn't that light.

Maybe I can shoot someone else's VP9 and maybe I'll hate it.

[Joe P. 4]

The Hk debt issue has been resolved with private funds I believe..

[Joe P. 4]

I have owned a few HKs (P2000, a few P7 variants). I have dealt with their customer service a few times and have always been impressed. Nice folks and inexpensive service.

I have a Glock 34 and a P7 PSP. I need to keep telling myself I don't need another 9mm gun, but the VP9 does keep calling my name. Everyone raves about the trigger on it. I owned a Walther PPQ for a short while. The trigger on it was so nice that I was actually worried about ever having to draw it from a holster. It was way to easy to go bang bang when you only wanted to go bang. I decided I can live with my Glock 5 pound trigger. The reset isn't as short as the PPQ's, but it is more crisp and has a good tactile response. Hopefully the HK's isn't that light.

Maybe I can shoot someone else's VP9 and maybe I'll hate it.

[Joe P. 4]

You can shoot my vp9 if you want to try.. Tell me if it sucks... I have nothing to compare it to.. I shoot at OB

[Carcano 14]

It's not just the 9mm lack of ability to penetrate body armor that is the issue. It's the 9mm round's penchant for over penetration in typical domestic construction materials* (when compared to 5.56) and it's inability to support personnel's movement to an objective from distances greater than 50 yards or so with positive terminal effects.

 

Having fired all the FA weapons you listed, and quite a few you have not, I would take the M4

 

* Especially when fired from sub-gun length barrels (> 6")

 

/hijack

 

Now back to HK GmbH going under. Talk amongst yourselves

 

I've also shot them all on full auto Plus some items not seen in the US

 

Want to play with some high explosives? My boss has a FEL in South Jersey Bring the HK's and I'll bring the detacord and BBQ...

[Vlad G 345]

What's wrong with FN? Honestly, I'd be happy with a less-expensive 5-7, and maybe if the ammo was cheaper than it has been, that would really endear me towards FN. I like their stuff, but it's all too pricey for me.

 

 

I like FN too, I really like how they treat shooters, I like how they support the shooting sports big time, etc. The problem, at least according to me, is that their products are overpriced ever so sightly not right.

[MidwestPX 172]

What was wrong with releasing SCARs for the commercial market? It seemed like a lot of people had gungasms for them. Granted, their price was a bit high, but I didn't know that it was a flop for them. I'm really curious about this.

There was nothing wrong with it. It's just something the commercial market liked/wanted hence it being a fluke.

[Shane45 807]

Well......FN seems to be good at flukes They did surprisingly well with the PS90 and the FS2k too! Take a look at what the SCAR16 came out at price wise, look how long that has endured, and look at what the ACR came out at and has dropped too. The FN's have had an amazing ability to hold a price point. FN has cut loose with some people they shouldn't have (the ones that have a clue!). And HK usually is a few ticks off but their execution of the VP9 gives me a good sense someone is paying attention and willing to sign off on significant departures from HK status quo. If you want to talk about a fubar'ed co one just need to look toward Exeter New Hampshire.

[High Exposure 5,672]

If you want to talk about a fubar'ed co one just need to look toward Exeter New Hampshire.

Quoted for truth!

 

I have never been a huge Sig fan. I can't shoot them for shit and the controls just don't work for my 12 year old Swedish girl sized hands - but I recognized them as a quality manufacturer that put out consistently well made gear for serious users. Then, they hired Cohen away from Kimber and shenanigans ensued....

[Carcano 14]

Quoted for truth!

 

I have never been a huge Sig fan. I can't shoot them for shit and the controls just don't work for my 12 year old Swedish girl sized hands - but I recognized them as a quality manufacturer that put out consistently well made gear for serious users. Then, they hired Cohen away from Kimber and shenanigans ensued....

 

Sig...not going to debate it but I have another name for Sig...

 

H&K will find someway to stay open, public or private.

[lunker 274]

It's funny, I moved to New Hampshire and live in Exeter, and up here everyone drinks the Sig koolaid. Sigs never worked for me as a lefty.

Their facilities are beautiful though. For some reason ( some have speculated financial) they canceled all their Fall matches at Sig Academy. I was looking forward to shooting IDPA there.

[lunker 274]

You can shoot my vp9 if you want to try.. Tell me if it sucks... I have nothing to compare it to.. I shoot at OB

 

Joe, thanks for the offer. My family moved up to New Hampshire a few months back for my work, so my visits to New Jersey are pretty infrequent. On the upside, I did finger a VP9 just last night at a great local store in Windham (2nd Amendment Arms). I love the ergos. The gun strongly resembles the Walther. And its trigger does not quite feel as light (I had the good fortune to be able to hold the two guns side-by-side). It looks like one will be in my near future.

Now I just have to decide what to do with my new Gen 4 Glock 34.

[Joe P. 4]

Joe, thanks for the offer. My family moved up to New Hampshire a few months back for my work, so my visits to New Jersey are pretty infrequent. On the upside, I did finger a VP9 just last night at a great local store in Windham (2nd Amendment Arms). I love the ergos. The gun strongly resembles the Walther. And its trigger does not quite feel as light (I had the good fortune to be able to hold the two guns side-by-side). It looks like one will be in my near future.

Now I just have to decide what to do with my new Gen 4 Glock 34.

Nice! .. free America must be a great change of pace from the mess down here. i checked out 2nd Amendment Arms online , that is a nice selection to choose from.  i saw CJ as your home range and thought you were local.  yes ,the ergos are great , can totally customize the grip with the side panels and backstrap configs. i  was concerned about the mag release location at first , but it turns out it is a great placement for me. it helps keep my trigger finger where it should not be when on the move, and don't have to change my grip position to reach it . curios to see if the come out with a VP40 & VP45... 

 

keep the Glock 34 also! 

 

happy shooting

[Kaiser7 33]

If you are looking for HK clones built to HK spec that are NJ legal check out http://www.kellyenterprises.net/vke-custom-german-series.html

 

Chuck is a great guy and I've bought several HK clones from him including the 556 and 308 clones, he will make them NJ compliant and the rifles carry a 5 year warranty by Vector Arms in UT.

 

Built on PTR receivers and the rest is done by Vector in UT, the VKE-91K rifle I bought from him is bad ass, 12.5 inch barrel with brake (making it legal) but that damn thing is LOUD.

 

If anyone is in SJ and wants to shoot it let me know

 

That sounds pretty cool. I really wanted a PTR for a while, but I think I'm a ways off from getting one. The main reason is that for that price, I'm going to get the gun I've always wanted, a m14 variant.

I like FN too, I really like how they treat shooters, I like how they support the shooting sports big time, etc. The problem, at least according to me, is that their products are overpriced ever so sightly not right.

 

That's true. I've never quite understood how the manufacturing costs can be so high as to require the MSRB they want. Granted, it could be a factor similar to Glocks, where they price them higher than the usual formula for consumer goods in order to give them an aura of higher quality and prestige. (For those not in the know, typically consumer mark up works with 50% being added on each link of the chain. Firearms are slightly different, because retailers typically don't charge the true MSRB for new firearms).

 

Any-who, I feel the same way with price on M14 variants. I'm not sure if Springfield Armory is truly garbage (M14 guys tend to say they're utter shit, compared to USGI ones, that they're not accurate, reliable, or long-lived). But I am shocked that there is typically a $1,000 difference between comparable Springfield Armory M14s, and those made by Smith Enterprises, Fulton Armory, and the other few companies that make them. I know the M14 is notorious for being difficult to manufacture, but I would have figured that with current production technology, they'd be closer to ARs in price. I've actually have another tab open, and am reading some other forums discussing why M14-style rifles are so expensive. None of the reasons hold much water IMO.

[9X19 125]

I know... But at least have good and current reasoning. When I first looked for a poly gun, everyone said go Glock. Did I go Glock? Nope! Do Like Glock? Nope! Are they great firearms? Sure... So why did I not get one and still don't want one? Because I'm a rebel. I also don't want "me too" things. In other words, I don't want it because if everyone has one... I don't want to be part of that crowd... I like being unique. That doesn't mean I don't do my research. I have not regretted one weapon I bought yet. So, I'm an HK fan and prob have their rifles if I didn't have to butcher them just to own them in this arsehole state. But I am also a Kimber fan, a Sig fan, LWRC and more. People will biotch at guns or any product for that matter. People seem to think that paying more for something, grants them the right to have a perfect product. Never happens, never will. It just gets tiring hearing the HK crap, the Kimber crap, etc all the time.... Most people are like parrots and repeat what they read. Most are prob not even owners... PS: I really hate companies that number their models based on how many fingers and toes they have avail... Hear that S&W and Glock fans? Lmao...

 

Must have taken 3 Glock executives to come up with my model's name LOL...I have the G41.

Hi John!

[mipafox 438]

Ahhhh.... Jamaica. The last bastion of true CQB TT&E from the 80's.

Too much Ghanja

 

If the 1986 MG ban was ever lifted, and civilians could own MG's that are post-86 again without any SOT...My first choice would be a G3KA4 w/ aftermarket buffer and an HK43 w/ collapsible stock and burst trigger group

That's hilarious. They won't even build a semi HK for you in the US, what makes you think they will build you a G3KA4?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL

[Carcano 14]

Too much Ghanja

 

 

That's hilarious. They won't even build a semi HK for you in the US, what makes you think they will build you a G3KA4?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL

 

The Jamaicans love/hate them, most want the Colt M16's back....

 

Holy s**t I laughed at the mag loaded backwards! the fliers/brochure were given out at shot show and someone noticed the mags were loaded BACKWARDS and pulled them. You would think someone would check BEFORE arriving, right?

 

The good thing is we have small US based companies picking up were HK stopped, I have a G3KA4 semi auto in NJ by Vector Arms with a brake to bring the barrel to 16.5 inches and fixed stock...get over to PA and do a Form 1, remove the brake and put the para stock on it.

 

HK hates civilians, they have no problem supplying countries with arms embargoes and dictators but it's too much for them to setup civilian tooling again.