Handgun shipping question

[flbound163 0]

I have read conflicting information on here from other people who live in multiple states.  Wanted to see if anyone can provide me a link to information disputing my theory.

 

Background:

1) I am a NJ resident with FID + matching DL.  Handgun was purchased by me, in NJ, with proper NJ pistol permit, from a NJ FFL.  

2) I own a house in FL, but I am not a FL resident, nor have FL DL.

3) I can possess said NJ permitted handgun legally at both my FL or NJ residence.

 

I would like to take my NJ legal handgun to my house in FL permanently.  I know I can 100% legally follow FOPA guidelines (locked case, ammo separate, ect) and drive it down to my FL house...BUT I have no desire to do this with having to go through Maryland, DC, ect.  I have been told by a NJ FLL that I cannot do a regular FFL transfer to a FL FFL, because I am not a resident there.

 

I would like to ship the receiver down to FL and pick it up myself from UPS/Fedex Hub if this was an option.  Reading each respective companies firearm policy's it does not appear I can do this.  

 

Now I have searched and found people who said this is okay....but I dont think it is.  I called UPS and the person on the line was clueless.....  He said I would have to go in and talk to them.  Have not tried contacting fedex yet.  Does anyone have any experience with shipping a gun to yourself to LEGALLY avoid traveling with it?  Or better yet, a link to the actual policy that says that an individual can ship a handgun to themselves and pick it up from a hub?  I want to follow the letter of the law to a T, but its difficult to find what the law actually is....

 

Thanks in advance!

 

UPS:

Shipping Firearms or Ammunition Shipping Firearms or Ammunition
Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

 

Fedex:

1. Firearms
   1. Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
      1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S.or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
      2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
   2. Carrier cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D.
   3. Upon presenting the goods for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to Carrier is required to notify Carrier that the shipment contains a firearm. The outside of the package(s) must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package(s) contains a firearm.
   4. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
   5. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
   6. Carrier will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

[T Bill 649]

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

[HBecwithFn7 296]

 

I would like to take my NJ legal handgun to my house in FL permanently.  I know I can 100% legally follow FOPA guidelines (locked case, ammo separate, ect) and drive it down to my FL house...BUT I have no desire to do this with having to go through Maryland, DC, ect.  I have been told by a NJ FLL that I cannot do a regular FFL transfer to a FL FFL, because I am not a resident there.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Like you, I am a NJ owner that often travels to FL, although I do not yet own property there (trust me, I'd like to.... ).  In fact, I'll be traveling very soon. This will be the 2nd time I will transport my inventory via FOPA rules, although I also  now have LTCF in FL, UT and AZ.  I'm trying a new route that will minimize my travel time in MD.  From Northwestern NJ, I go

 

1. I-78 W --> (through Penn.).
2. I-81 South --> (turns down and crosses over to MD west of Haggerstown. About 12 miles, 10 min.). Cross into West Va. then Va.
3. I-77 South--->  All through Virgina to Roanoke and beyond to Charlotte, NC (Stop overnight).  Then past Columbia SC
4. I-26 E --> From Columbia SC --> just north of Walterboro, SC.
5. I-95 Down from Walterboro SC --> Florida.

If I needed to go through the DC area, I'd use the Eastern Shore Route US 301 and go across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.  Then US 301/50 to the Beltway (I-495) and then down the beltway to I-95 the whole way down. 

 

But I would not go through the trouble and expense of shipping my inventory, just to avoid traveling with them, even in MD. I'd simply pack up the car FOPA style. I might avoid I-95 going through MD and avoid the tunnels. I think that's where you'd find the greatest LE scrutiny.  But stick to the speed limit and don't drive erratically, and you should be fine. 

 

Just out of curiosity, if you have property in both NJ & FL, why not change your primary domicile?  I can't wait to do that Do you need to spend more time in NJ than in FL? I guess you have to declare your primary domicile to be wherever it is you spend more than 183 days out of the year.  Trust me, the 1st opportunity I get to do that, I will!

 

Bottom Line: I would not bother to ship my inventory via carrier and pay extra for it. It will travel with me.

[flbound163 0]

Like you, I am a NJ owner that often travels to FL, although I do not yet own property there (trust me, I'd like to.... ).  In fact, I'll be traveling very soon. This will be the 2nd time I will transport my inventory via FOPA rules, although I also  now have LTCF in FL, UT and AZ.  I'm trying a new route that will minimize my travel time in MD.  From Northwestern NJ, I go

 

1. I-78 W --> (through Penn.).
2. I-81 South --> (turns down and crosses over to MD west of Haggerstown. About 12 miles, 10 min.). Cross into West Va. then Va.
3. I-77 South--->  All through Virgina to Roanoke and beyond to Charlotte, NC (Stop overnight).  Then past Columbia SC
4. I-26 E --> From Columbia SC --> just north of Walterboro, NC.
5. I-95 Down from Walterboro SC --> Florida.

If I needed to go through the DC area, I'd use the Eastern Shore Route US 301 and go across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.  Then US 301/50 to the Beltway (I-495) and then down the beltway to I-95 the whole way down. 

 

But I would not go through the trouble and expense of shipping my inventory, just to avoid traveling with them, even in MD. I'd simply pack up the car FOPA style. I might avoid I-95 going through MD and avoid the tunnels. I think that's where you'd find the greatest LE scrutiny.  But stick to the speed limit and don't drive erratically, and you should be fine. 

 

Just out of curiosity, if you have property in both NJ & FL, why not change your primary domicile?  I can't wait to do that Do you need to spend more time in NJ than in FL? I guess you have to declare your primary domicile to be wherever it is you spend more than 183 days out of the year.  Trust me, the 1st opportunity I get to do that, I will!

 

Bottom Line: I would not bother to ship my inventory via carrier and pay extra for it. It will travel with me.

 

Im not looking to ship my collection (yet), just a glock to leave down there.  I'd only have to ship it once.  I know what your saying about driving down with them, and I fully support LE.  But with all the crazy crap you see out there, the risk just seems to high to me.  I have never been in a traffic stop while I had guns in the truck...but I have been pulled over for a brake light out recently.  And right after I handed my license/reg/ins cards first thing I was asked was if I had any weapons in the car!  Now I know following FOPA guidelines its legal to do, but you can have a really big issue if the officer decides to make it one.  The cost of overnight UPS service, seems like a good deal to avoid alot of stress.  Especially since I always drive thru the night.  I start thinking what if I break down or have to get a hotel, or get pulled over in Baltimore at 3am....too many BAD what ifs for me.  Feel the same way about checking the gun and flying down.  

 

As far as why I do not claim residency down in FL, you hit it right on the head.  I don't spend the required 181days down there.  Right now doing about 3-4mths, a year and slowly ramping that up.   Believe me I would LOVE to reap the MANY benefits of being a FL resident, and in time I will!  Looking forward to paying my NJ exit tax and heading down there for good,,LOL!!   Got a bunch of years before that is realistic though.

[flbound163 0]

http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

 

Thank you!  Now armed with this I will be making some calls to UPS and Fedex!

[ryan_j 0]

Honestly if you just drive carefully and your car doesn't scream "pull me over!!!" you have little to worry about.

 

I went to WV and VA the other day, went through MD. Programmed my GPS to stop just before the state line to arm/disarm. Left disarmed in NJ, didn't bother with arming in DE, passed through MD, DC, and when I hit VA I armed. Stayed armed through VA and WV. Return trip, disarmed through MD, then re-armed in PA, disarmed at PA/NJ border then came back home. Yes I did go to a range as well. 

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Honestly if you just drive carefully and your car doesn't scream "pull me over!!!" you have little to worry about.

 

I went to WV and VA the other day, went through MD. Programmed my GPS to stop just before the state line to arm/disarm. Left disarmed in NJ, didn't bother with arming in DE, passed through MD, DC, and when I hit VA I armed. Stayed armed through VA and WV. Return trip, disarmed through MD, then re-armed in PA, disarmed at PA/NJ border then came back home. Yes I did go to a range as well. 

 

Just curious - Did you note any ALPRs along the MD portion of I-81?  Either fixed or mobile?

[ryan_j 0]

Just curious - Did you note any ALPRs along the MD portion of I-81?  Either fixed or mobile?

 

 

I didn't but that doesn't mean there weren't any. What do they look like? 

 

I hardly saw any cop cars and Waze really didn't show that many on the map. 

[Princetonian58 53]

Take U.S. 13 from the Delaware Memorial Bridge down to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel.  You will pass through about 20 miles of rural Maryland before entering Virginia.

[brucin 923]

Why not take 81? You can pick it up in Harrisburg PA and you only have to do about 10 miles in MD. I know its a little out of the way but it eliminates the Baltimore and DC traffic so I would bet the net time is the same.

 

There is another thread that discusses this route but I'm not sure of it's title.

[njpilot 671]

I've driven to VA a couple of times, to FL and back once and about 15 years ago, to LA and back with a firearm in the vehicle and never had an issue.

 

All trips went through MD on 95, then the 495 Beltway, both East and West of DC.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I didn't but that doesn't mean there weren't any. What do they look like?

 

The "fixed" ones are often attached to a 15-20ft. pole, if they can't be attached to anything else. They are normally aimed toward the license plate area. Often it's the camera pointed in the opposite direction of traffic flow, since many cars don't have a front plate.

 

 

The mobile cameras can be mounted anywhere on a cruiser.

 

 

I hardly saw any cop cars and Waze really didn't show that many on the map.

 

That's good. But hardly an indicator. I guess it really depends on their custom at the point I'd be rollin' through. 

 

 

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Why not take 81? You can pick it up in Harrisburg PA and you only have to do about 10 miles in MD. I know its a little out of the way but it eliminates the Baltimore and DC traffic so I would bet the net time is the same.

 

There is another thread that discusses this route but I'm not sure of it's title.

 

Precisely. The I-81 route seems to minimize the time and mileage traveled in MD.  At one point, I was going to go US 13 down to the bridge/tunnel, but I determined it just wasn't worth the extra time, simply for the novelty of going through the bridge/tunnel. There are plenty of YouTube videos showing that journey, and it just wasn't worth it.  I'd much rather minimize time in MD.  I-81 is the new answer.

 

I did some research. The speed limit on I-81 through MD starts at 65mph at each end and drops to 60mph through the middle, correct?

[T Bill 649]

Maryland I-81, just 12.08 miles and 15 minutes of hell each time going to the Sunshine State. 

[brucin 923]

Precisely. The I-81 route seems to minimize the time and mileage traveled in MD.  At one point, I was going to go US 13 down to the bridge/tunnel, but I determined it just wasn't worth the extra time, simply for the novelty of going through the bridge/tunnel. There are plenty of YouTube videos showing that journey, and it just wasn't worth it.  I'd much rather minimize time in MD.  I-81 is the new answer.

 

I did some research. The speed limit on I-81 through MD starts at 65mph at each end and drops to 60mph through the middle, correct?

I could not confirm the speed limits, sorry.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I could not confirm the speed limits, sorry.

 

No worries. I'll just be careful. I wanted to ensure that it wasn't a "trap" sort of thing where the speed fluctuates to give LE a chance to take drivers down...

[flbound163 0]

Update:

 

   I am traveling down to FL in a few weeks, and flying down this time.  So I figured it would be the perfect opportunity to ship my glock down.  I called UPS, and the shipping rep on the phone said they will NOT ship any firearm individual to individual (myself to myself) over state boarders.  I told them the ATF website says that I can, and asked for a manager.  The manager said the samething, that UPS has a tariff policy that only allows out of state shipping of firearms.... either TO an FFL, or FROM an FFL.  I called Fedex and got the same explanation.  Thinking the reps I got might be misinformed, I called both back today and got the same story.  I also stopped by my local UPS customer center (hub), and the guy working the desk made some calls and gave me the same story.  So it seems like its completely legal federally to do, but no common carrier will accept a firearm for shipment to yourself in another state.  

 

What suprised me the most was that I never said "handgun" to them, I only said firearm.  How the heck do hunters who travel to hunt take there rifles/shotguns with them?? 

[PK90 3,570]

On plane, in car, or ship and lie.

[flbound163 0]

Im flying out of JFK this time, so no way am I checking a gun there!!  I'm going to see if I can buy a mossberg 500 from Wallyworld when Im down there this time, just to have something in the house.  Then when I drive back down in Dec, I'll take the I-81 trek, and bring the pistols with me.  I never even entertained checking a gun at an airport, but I think owning a home in FL should be enough to cover me for any FOPA or NJ transport reqs, if I decided too?  Meaning I should be able to legally transport a handgun between my two homes (even in either direction). 

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Precisely. The I-81 route seems to minimize the time and mileage traveled in MD.  At one point, I was going to go US 13 down to the bridge/tunnel, but I determined it just wasn't worth the extra time, simply for the novelty of going through the bridge/tunnel. There are plenty of YouTube videos showing that journey, and it just wasn't worth it.  I'd much rather minimize time in MD.  I-81 is the new answer.

 

I did some research. The speed limit on I-81 through MD starts at 65mph at each end and drops to 60mph through the middle, correct?

 

 

I could not confirm the speed limits, sorry.

 

I now can.  I have completed the southbound journey and was most pleasantly surprised.   For the MD segment, the speed limits are 65mph at both ends, but drops to 60mph in the middle. I'd say 65mph for the first & last 2-3 miles.

 

The journey itself was really great. No major construction, not too many trucks (although it was a weekend), and not too bad from a hill perspective. I made pretty good gas mileage.

 

No fixed ALPRs on the MD segment. Although, oddly, I did see quite a few cameras (not certain if they were ALPR) in Virginia. They could have been regular traffic cams, but not the "dome" style.  They looked like ALPRs. 

 

I would recommend this route to all. Take it on a weekend first, just to be sure. I'll see how things go on my way back (will be a wed./thrs), but I hope it won't be all that bad.

 

We'll see.