BlueLineFish 615 Posted September 24, 2014 http://www.slickguns.com/product/citadel-m-1-9mm-carbine-wood-stock-10-rd-53499-free-shipping Too bad its no go here. Looks nice and it takes 92 mags. Good price too. Such a shame. Maybe i will call the AG and ask since its not the .30 cal version..lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC_68Westy 1,024 Posted September 24, 2014 I wonder if that is a gas operated, if not, then how could this possibly be a no go? If not gas operated, then action is not identical in any way to a USGI M1 carbine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wolfy 51 Posted September 24, 2014 This looks interesting and it is a great price. How do the ballistics of the 30 cal compare to the 9mm? Who is John Galt? I am so excited I figured out how to change my signature. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illy 1 Posted September 24, 2014 I wonder if that is a gas operated, if not, then how could this possibly be a no go? If not gas operated, then action is not identical in any way to a USGI M1 carbine.It's all about the name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeletePLS 178 Posted September 24, 2014 RTSP sells the 22lr version made by citadel (pretty sure they had the 9mm version at one time too). I would find it odd that they would be selling guns in NJ that weren't legal in NJ. http://store.rtsponline.com/legacy-sports-citadel-m-1-22lr-wood-stock-10rd/dp/1654 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illy 1 Posted September 24, 2014 Discussed before here: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/67695-citadel-is-now-making-a-9mm-carbine-is-it-legal/ And here: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/35331-is-this-rifle-legal-in-nj-one-shop-says-yes-anothe-no/ And sort of here: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/53668-what-makes-an-us-m1-carbine-no-go-for-nj/?fromsearch=1 ETA: Of course no definitive conclusion, except that future generations of free people will read this and say about our state (i.e us) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Glock guy 1,125 Posted September 24, 2014 I've been seriously considering getting a 9mm carbine, and this one looks really sweet. So there's no way of knowing whether or not it's NJ legal? What a sad state of affairs that we even need to be asking questions like this! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueLineFish 615 Posted September 24, 2014 RTSP sells the 22lr version made by citadel (pretty sure they had the 9mm version at one time too). I would find it odd that they would be selling guns in NJ that weren't legal in NJ. http://store.rtsponline.com/legacy-sports-citadel-m-1-22lr-wood-stock-10rd/dp/1654 if they know for sure its legal then fine. I stand corrected. Dont go by a place selling stuff means its legal. Remember Bullet Hole selling pistol grip semi auto shotguns and telling people they were legal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUTGERS95 889 Posted September 24, 2014 so what is the verdict as I want it!!!!! can we buy it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted September 24, 2014 The NJSP said it was okay to sell the Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbine because it was stamped as "US Carbine" "Cal 30 ML", but the NJAG stepped in a few days later and said that it was not okay because it was marketed as an M1 Carbine. I have one in stock and it is stamped "Chiappa" "Citadel M1-9". From what I can tell, the receiver and other parts are not interchangeable with a standard carbine. If you can get the approval, God bless you.M1 Carbine Email.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handyman 5,682 Posted September 28, 2014 So just to try to wrap my head around this, if Daisy made a BB gun replica and it was stamped M1, it would be illegal in NJ. Those must be some dangerous words. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmfenn 0 Posted November 28, 2014 I'm not so sure that this would be illegal, per se. But who wants to be the test case? If you follow the logic of the Colt Match Target, and Springfield M1a clarifications that the NJSP lists on it's website, and the NJ AG "Guidelines Regarding the "Substantially Identical" Provision inthe State's Assault Firearms Laws", this weapon should be fine. Follow My Logic: The original M1 Carbine is a .30, gas operating, rotating bolt action using USGI standard magazines This is a 9mm, blowback operated action, using beretta pistol magazines. This SHOULD, make it legal, as per NJ Law, as the reveiver changes makes it not identical, just at they decided with the Colt Match Target, Wheras: "Although this new rifle, may resemble the Colt AR-15, there have been substantial changes to the firearm, including the receiver which is not identical to an AR-15 receiver. In addition, because of changes in the configuration of the firearm, the Colt Match Target Rifle is not substantially identical to a prohibited firearm and prohibited under this classification." The term "substantial" means pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing. The term "identical" means exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless it is identical except for differences which do not alter the essential nature of the firearm. The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm: name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; a modification of a pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria: A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and a grenade launcher; This should also not be banned because it only has one of the needed "evil features", because as was decided, the Springfield M1a manufactured after '94 was decided to not be an "M14 type", because: The Springfield M1A is not one of the enumerated firearms which are specifically prohibited under the State’s assault firearms laws. It has been prohibited in this State as being substantially identical to a named firearm. However, according to the manufacturer’s specifications, the M1A has been modified. The modified M1A, which became available in 1994, would not be considered to be substantially identical to a prohibited firearm in accordance with the statutory provision and the Attorney General’s guidelines cited above. However, earlier versions of the M1A which contains at least two of the criteria identified in Paragraph B of the Attorney General’s Guidelines, supra, would still be considered to be substantially identical to a prohibited firearm and continue to be banned under our State law. As a result, it will be necessary to clearly distinguish the physical characteristics or lack of physical characteristics when making a determination regarding the M1A rifle. So, by the NJ Attorney General's guidelines, this weapon should be legal in NJ. Npw if they would just publish htat on NJSP.org, we would be golden. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueLineFish 615 Posted November 28, 2014 Your point is very valid and contains a great argument. Now..the other issue is whether or not an ffl would transfer one to you. I may have to find out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oakridgefirearms 224 Posted November 29, 2014 The NJSP told me if it says M1 carbine on it, it's a no go. If it's not in .30 carbine and doesn't say M1 it's OK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueLineFish 615 Posted November 29, 2014 Now i have to find out if m1 is stamped on it anywhere Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted November 29, 2014 If the discussed item is SKU#CIR9M1W, it is marked "Chiappa Firearms Citadel M1-9" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueLineFish 615 Posted November 29, 2014 If the discussed item is SKU#CIR9M1W, it is marked "Chiappa Firearms Citadel M1-9" so would that mean its ok or no since its has m1 on it. Funny...even the cop has to ask in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted November 29, 2014 so would that mean its ok or no since its has m1 on it. Funny...even the cop has to ask in this case. Why the deliberation? Arrest yourself and let the courts sort it out. I've been seriously considering getting a 9mm carbine, and this one looks really sweet. So there's no way of knowing whether or not it's NJ legal? What a sad state of affairs that we even need to be asking questions like this! When they wrote the law, anything that looked anything like that, or anything like an AR or AK for that matter, was supposed to be banned. With a few carve outs (Mini-14, etc.) Now, almost every gun is legal in NJ, with a few "carve outs,' and people question why certain guns are not allowed. It's because we weren't supposed to have any of this stuff in the first place. They simply didn't have a lot of foresight when they worded the law and we've managed to work around all of it except for magazines and bayonet lugs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogfarmer 138 Posted December 16, 2014 well Howell Gunworks is selling 22 and ordering 9mm ones for people today via their Fb, so I guess there's your answer, I still don't wanna be a test subject in the godforsaken state of confusion. Still dont understand how the ban is on "M1 Carbine Type" excludes this, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeletePLS 178 Posted December 16, 2014 yes i checked out the one at howell gunworks last night, really nice gun very solid. Agreed i dont want to be a test subject either. I've asked both Omri (Howellgunworks) and Peter (RTSP) they both say the gun in 9mm or 22lr are perfectly legal. They also are both in law enforcement if i'm not mistaken its hard to believe they would be selling guns that are illegal putting themselves and their business in danger. yes, i still dont understand m1 carbine type and probably will never fully understand NJ gun laws. Watching thread whos gonna get one first Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueLineFish 615 Posted December 16, 2014 Im sure if anybody does get one they wont post it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Glock guy 1,125 Posted December 16, 2014 Damn, I'm just waiting for a "go" sign on this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted December 17, 2014 Mike at RTSP told me they are legal the other day when I asked about them. And will get me one if I wanted. I may or may not get one. If I do I will use a code word for it on the forum. ie: "Hey got my spamoni the other day, anyone want to meet at RTSP to have a go at it"? LoL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Matrix 105 Posted December 18, 2014 I have seen another dealer beyond the 2 listed above, selling these. I think you are fine, unless you shoot someone with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted December 18, 2014 I think you are fine, unless you shoot someone with it. I think we can probably say that about any gun lol... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted December 18, 2014 If the discussed item is SKU#CIR9M1W, it is marked "Chiappa Firearms Citadel M1-9" Is the "M1 Garand" also illegal or does that not have "M1" on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bt Doctur 188 Posted December 18, 2014 Then this should be legal too, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bt Doctur 188 Posted December 18, 2014 or the original Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
302w 83 Posted December 18, 2014 Mhmmmmm....Pennsylvania Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bt Doctur 188 Posted December 18, 2014 A great place to bury things until needed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites