is the oss banner alpha 1 nj legal?

[david8613 69]

Is the oss banner alpha 1 NJ legal?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=Ylk5VOCMNsiOsQTcq4DICQ&url=http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/OSS-Bannar-Alpha-1-5-56-p/oss-bannar-alpha1.htm&ved=0CC4QFjAE&usg=AFQjCNGS1_cRmobOyMx0NAoKK9Y7_tSRBA&sig2=MHetcsqpUWKZiQrTwElfFg

[Vlad G 345]

Seeing how it says flash hider right on it, I would stay away.

[Respect2A 0]

Besides its developed for operators by operators. Are you operator enough to operate one?

[Vlad G 345]

Besides its developed for operators by operators. Are you operator enough to operate one?

 

That one did amuses a bit.  Item A developed by operators for operators, Item B designed by engineers and scientists for anyone who wants an effective comp. Which one would you choose?

[Respect2A 0]

Ideally I'd want operators to tell engineers and scientists what they want and then let them have at it.

 

In your scenario I'd go with B

[JT Custom Guns 956]

in NJ - Local 825 Operating Engineers

[Vlad G 345]

in NJ - Local 825 Operating Engineers

 

heh

[1LtCAP 4,262]

Ideally I'd want operators to tell engineers and scientists what they want and then let them have at it.

 

In your scenario I'd go with B

i spend my days dealing with bs engineer stuff on peoples cars. i'd take item "A", 'cause the operators in the field know what works and what doesn't. the engineers know what works in "theory". theory and reality battle all the time. reality always wins.

[Vlad G 345]

Can you please provide a real world example of that approach that has had any serious success?

[david8613 69]

I asked because I remember awhile back there was a muzzle device that had a letter from atf saying that it was legal,it kind of in the grey area. I wasn't sure if this one was it?

[Vlad G 345]

I asked because I remember awhile back there was a muzzle device that had a letter from atf saying that it was legal,it kind of in the grey area. I wasn't sure if this one was it?

 

The problem is that ATF's later doesn't mean much to NJ.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I asked because I remember awhile back there was a muzzle device that had a letter from atf saying that it was legal,it kind of in the grey area. I wasn't sure if this one was it?

 

 

since NJ does not define flash hider.. I would personally only stick with something that has the look and operation of a more traditional brake..

[MandM 2]

I would stay away, personally. 

 

There's plenty of brakes/comps that we know are good to go in NJ... I wouldn't take the chance.

 

The PWS FSC556 has an ATF letter (I always keep a copy with my rifle that sports one, for whatever good it might do me)... is that the one you're thinking of, David?

[SgtToadette 59]

The law is only as good as the smartest cop. Use your best judgement.

[GRIZ 3,369]

The problem is that ATF's later doesn't mean much to NJ.

I would say the ATF letter provides you with a viable defense. ATF has criteria which determine if something is a muzzle brake/recoil compensator or flash surpressor/hider. NJ has none. It just says flash supressor. There is no legal definition of what it is. You can cut out one end of a soup can, punch a hole in the other end, tape it to the end of your AR and it will surpress flash to some degree.

 

Absent any NJ legal definition of a surpressor, it would be a poor attorney that couldn't convince a NJ court to accept ATF'S definition. That would be the ATF that's the Federal government's "expert" on firearms.

[Vlad G 345]

Absent any legal NJ definition of a flash suppressor, it would be a poor prosecutor who can't make up some bullshit that keeps in the courts for a year and push you into bankruptcy. Seeing how NJ already said that the supreme courts gun related rulings only kinda sorta apply here, what respect would they have for the ATF?

 

But hey, own whatever you wish. I personally think it is a mistake to assume a ATF letter means anything in NJ, but maybe I'm wrong.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Absent any legal NJ definition of a flash suppressor, it would be a poor prosecutor who can't make up some bullshit that keeps in the courts for a year and push you into bankruptcy. Seeing how NJ already said that the supreme courts gun related rulings only kinda sorta apply here, what respect would they have for the ATF?

 

But hey, own whatever you wish. I personally think it is a mistake to assume a ATF letter means anything in NJ, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Contrary to what many believe a prosecutor just can't "make up some bullshit" definition of a flash surpressor.  A muzzle attachment is or isn't a flash surpressor. A prosecutor's opinion vs an ATF lab report at the absolute least introduces reasonable doubt absnet a NJ definition.

 

Many people want something on the end of the barrel for cosmetic reasons.  They aren't even aware of the fact a surpressor's job is to surpress the flash to the shooter not as an anti-detection device.  A comp would offer you a small advantage if you use the rifle in some type of against the clock competition but most actually intensify the flash in low light conditions.  Stupid NJ law yes but if you outlaw something you need to define it which NJ hasn't done.  That leaves us using ATF's evaluation.

 

That being what it is I avoid problems and additional expense by not having anything on the muzzle of my ARs.

[Vlad G 345]

And as on topic reminder, the actual device the OP asked for is defined by the seller/manufacturer as "Flash Hider / Muzzle Brake" on their webpage. In this case the prosecutor doesnt need to make up anything.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Contrary to what many believe a prosecutor just can't "make up some bullshit" definition of a flash surpressor.  A muzzle attachment is or isn't a flash surpressor. A prosecutor's opinion vs an ATF lab report at the absolute least introduces reasonable doubt absnet a NJ definition.

 

Many people want something on the end of the barrel for cosmetic reasons.  They aren't even aware of the fact a surpressor's job is to surpress the flash to the shooter not as an anti-detection device.  A comp would offer you a small advantage if you use the rifle in some type of against the clock competition but most actually intensify the flash in low light conditions.  Stupid NJ law yes but if you outlaw something you need to define it which NJ hasn't done.  That leaves us using ATF's evaluation.

 

That being what it is I avoid problems and additional expense by not having anything on the muzzle of my ARs.

 

remember... IF it ever gets bad enough there will be a jury.. remember that jury is pretty unlikely to be gun enthusiasts... to be found guilty you do not need to be wrong... you simply have to have a jury convinced you are wrong... insert a handful of liberals... a handful of soccer moms... maybe a skeet shooter or two (for fair balance).. as they parade your child killing machine gun around the court room... you are thinking in terms of logic.. and unfortunately the outcome may not be that... YOU assume that the ATF criteria for flash hider is relevant.. all they need to do is convince a bunch of non firearms enthusiasts that the thing welded on your gun reduces flash..  which could be an easy test to conduct.. then they simply need to read the assault weapons ban... your lawyer can yell all day about ATF this or ATF that.. but IMHO NJ is not obligated to honor any ATF opinion..

 

AGREED the likelihood very slim.. but the payoff of walking the line is even smaller.. when someone selects these borderline devices they are not reaping the benefits of an actual hider.. and sacrificing the functionality of a full brake.. sounds like lose lose to me..

[SgtToadette 59]

ITT: Lots of legal discussion from non-lawyers about a million unsubstantiated hypotheticals.

 

If the law scares you don't put anything on the end of your barrel. Otherwise use your personal best judgement.

[Blacksmythe 71]

ITT: Lots of legal discussion from non-lawyers about a million unsubstantiated hypotheticals.

 

If the law scares you don't put anything on the end of your barrel. Otherwise use your personal best judgement.

+1

[ogfarmer 138]

pinky test?

[DeerSlayer 241]

pinky test?

My pinky or yours? Big difference I'm sure.