Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 http://302tacops.com/ I'm taking the ar level 2 move and shoot class tomorrow. After that I'll give a revue but I've heard good things about these guys. Owner is wild bill and has alit of credentials. Classes are reasonable too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 http://youtu.be/5AAbyckupqE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted October 11, 2014 I have never heard of these guys and I can't find anything on this company. What are the instructors backgrounds? It looks like the owners pedigree is just collecting certs but I admittedly can't find much. Their website is bizzare: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BullzeyeNJ 104 Posted October 11, 2014 Its top level secret squirrel covert shite High Exposure. If you cant crack the code then please move on, Nothing to see here sir. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 Bill Walters is the Founder and Head Instructor of the 302 Group. the 302 group is made up of 302 jiu jitsu (302bjj) and 302 Tac Ops Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Bio Bill Walters started training in BJJ in 1998 He has competed in: IBJFF Pan Am, Grapplers Quest, US Grappling, and NAGA Was awarded his Blue Belt in 1999 Received his Purple Belt in 2001 Received his Brown Belt 2005 Received his Black Belt from Phil Migliarese in 2009 Firearms and Combatives Schools and Certifications Bill Walters holds certifications in the following: v NRA Basic Pistol Instructor v NRA Law Enforcement Pistol Instructor v NRA Law Enforcement Shotgun Instructor v NRA Range Safety Officer v NRA Basic Rifle v IDPA Range Officer v International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor v Sig Arms Tactical Folding Knife Instructor v Ernest Emerson Edged Weapon Combative: Surviving the Deadly Attack v Storm Mountain Training Centers Modern Combatives Gracie Jiu Jitsu Instructor Graduated from the following SMTC Courses: v High Risk Personnel / Pre Deployment Direct Action Training v Close Personal Protection / Personal Security Detail v Basic Handgun v Combative Handgun Instructor v Ernest Langdon’s Tactical Competitive Handgun v Sniper I v Combative Shotgun Instructor v Patrol Carbine v Long Range Rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 This Sunday 10/12 Carbine Class on shooting and moving techniques from 9am till 12pm. We will be covering basic movement and how to go from moving to alternative shooting positions. Gear required: 200 to 300 rounds Any Magazine fed Carbine 3 Magazines and a Mag Holder Eye and Ear Protection Clothing suitable for all weather conditions and for ground shooting. Snacks and Drinks Cost $135 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted October 11, 2014 Its top level secret squirrel covert shite High Exposure. If you cant crack the code then please move on, Nothing to see here sir. Got it. Head down, gaze averted and moving on. Bill Walters is the Founder and Head Instructor of the 302 Group.the 302 group is made up of 302 jiu jitsu (302bjj) and 302 Tac OpsBrazilian Jiu Jitsu BioBill Walters started training in BJJ in 1998He has competed in: IBJFF Pan Am, Grapplers Quest, US Grappling, and NAGAWas awarded his Blue Belt in 1999Received his Purple Belt in 2001Received his Brown Belt 2005Received his Black Belt from Phil Migliarese in 2009Firearms and Combatives Schools and CertificationsBill Walters holds certifications in the following:v NRA Basic Pistol Instructorv NRA Law Enforcement Pistol Instructorv NRA Law Enforcement Shotgun Instructorv NRA Range Safety Officerv NRA Basic Riflev IDPA Range Officerv International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructorv Sig Arms Tactical Folding Knife Instructorv Ernest Emerson Edged Weapon Combative: Surviving the Deadly Attackv Storm Mountain Training Centers Modern Combatives Gracie Jiu Jitsu InstructorGraduated from the following SMTC Courses:v High Risk Personnel / Pre Deployment Direct Action Trainingv Close Personal Protection / Personal Security Detailv Basic Handgunv Combative Handgun Instructorv Ernest Langdon’s Tactical Competitive Handgunv Sniper I v Combative Shotgun Instructorv Patrol Carbinev Long Range RifleThat's all I found as well.... I figured with all the SF imagery he would have has at least a little operational background. Looks like he is a certificate collector. Looks like he has a bunch of NRA certs, which in my experience don't mean much on its face - That doesn't make anyone with an NRA cert a bad teacher. There are some excellent instructors out there with NRA certs, so please don't take that the wrong way. I'm just stating that a cert (any cert) doesn't legitimize you as in instructor in and of itself. Who/what is SMTC? What is special about their certs? Nothing in that bio makes me want to take a course with them. What makes him worthy of my money to teach gunfighting? Other than the BJJ stuff, I have similar certs. I don't feel qualified to teach professionally and I carry a gun for a living and am the head trainer for a local PD and a county SWAT team in TTPs and gunfighting. Seriously, if this is all it takes, I am getting insurance and hanging my shingle out there. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 Stmc http://www.stormmountain.com/index.php?sid=slbljnd00nrhh7sjj7on5ihve7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 Here is how I look at classes. I've never been in one or taught one that I didn't learn something. If it costs me $135 and a few hours to get to run around and shoot crap sign me up. If the guy sucks I'm only out $135 and now I know. The guys shop is like 10 mins from me so I may even start the bjj classes. It'll help me stay in shape at the least. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blksheep 466 Posted October 11, 2014 I have had a few guys take courses at Storm Mountain. They said that it was a great course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted October 11, 2014 Here is how I look at classes. I've never been in one or taught one that I didn't learn something. If it costs me $135 and a few hours to get to run around and shoot crap sign me up. If the guy sucks I'm only out $135 and now I know. The guys shop is like 10 mins from me so I may even start the bjj classes. It'll help me stay in shape at the least. Fair enough. I'm just very picky about who gets my money. I research my instructors, and their curriculum, and I make sure it fits my specific needs. I also get a little cranky when an instructor steps outside their frame of reference. Not everyone is a gunfighter, not everyone needs to learn from a gunfighter. If you have the time and the money to not be so choosy, good for you. It's never a bad thing to have another good instructor nearby. I'm just skeptical after looking at his website and bio. I've been wrong before, and I know I'll be wrong again. Have fun, and I am eagerly awaiting your AAR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bhunted 887 Posted October 11, 2014 Fair enough. I'm just very picky about who gets my money. I research my instructors, and their curriculum, and I make sure it fits my specific needs. I also get a little cranky when an instructor steps outside their frame of reference. Not everyone is a gunfighter, not everyone needs to learn from a gunfighter. If you have the time and the money to not be so choosy, good for you. It's never a bad thing to have another good instructor nearby. I'm just skeptical after looking at his website and bio. I've been wrong before, and I know I'll be wrong again. Have fun, and I am eagerly awaiting your AAR. AARP? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjd832 146 Posted October 11, 2014 high exposure has pretty much nailed it.....this "training professional" is just another of the many that have jumped on the "ultra tactical urban combat ninja seal beret force training facility" band wagon...anyone can watch videos/take a class from another "instructor"(who is one click over them) who sat through the same class 6months prior and is now cashing in on the "joe q public" that has seen the you tube warriors and feel that taking the guys class ill turn them into operators.... accruing papers from 4-6 hr classes is easy...look at the joke of the ccw process for the nr permits like fl, utah etc......guys that have no real world combat exp...and take classes to "better themselves" is one thing...but people that take karate at a strip mall in de and accrue "belts" is no more of a ninja than the guy that accrues 10 nr ccw permitts is a tier 1 operator...... its kind of despicable to mislead and profit from misrepresentation....but as long as someone will pay them...it will continue... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 Have you taken a class there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 Because if not that's a bold accusation for someone you never met or have nowhere to get that opinion from Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 He does the classes at cabelas too Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 He does the classes at cabelas too Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjd832 146 Posted October 11, 2014 so does the alliance with cabelas (payed use of a conference room/cabelas ability to get more traffic in the door) somehow eliminate his lack or actual real world experience most people would want?.......im not belittling you for taking the class...as long as you have fun and learn something cool......my problem is with those "instructors" in general...the ones with a bunch of bs certificates...and not REAL experience.....the corey/erica deal comes to mind....u tube/range ninjas.......would you want to have surgery from a "dr" that has a correspondence class cert. or one that actually went to medical school?....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 Does it make someone less qualified? I see a lot of judgements with no grounds Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1LtCAP 4,259 Posted October 11, 2014 where are these taught at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 11, 2014 1141 Marl Pit Rd Middletown Delaware 19709 United States Is the range The class room is in new castle Delaware. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted October 12, 2014 Does it make someone less qualified? Absolutely. Do you think this guy is as qualified to teach "Gunfighting" as someone like Paul Howe, Pat Rogers, Kyle Lamb, Jeff Gonzales, Dave Harrington, Tom Spooner, Pat MacNamara, or Kyle DeFoor? Someone who was never trained to be a "professional gunfighter" teaching classes on how to be one = Clownshoes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjd832 146 Posted October 12, 2014 Absolutely. Do you think this guy is as qualified to teach "Gunfighting" as someone like Paul Howe, Pat Rogers, Kyle Lamb, Jeff Gonzales, Dave Harrington, Tom Spooner, Pat MacNamara, or Kyle DeFoor? Someone who was never trained to be a "professional gunfighter" teaching classes on how to be one = Clownshoes. +1trillion lol And isn't "his classroom" also cabelas overflow dining area? ... Just saying... It's one thing to get an NRA basic pistol instructor cert and teach safe weapon handling etc.... But to get a certificate of attendance to a day class and some nonsense strip mall dojo belts and then print flyers with a slightly modified 2nd recon btn insignia without ever actually earning the patch?... that to me is the clown car to go with the clown shoes haha For those not familiar.....http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Reconnaissance_Battalion_(United_States_Marine_Corps) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illy 1 Posted October 12, 2014 "Lorem ipsum" is placeholder text for unfinished websites. Just means their web designer hasn't completed the job. Doesn't really say anything about the training. I felt you guys were being a little judgmental, too. And then I watched that trailer: Skills you'll learn- Drawing from a holster (shows a student "drawing" then going to low ready. Huh?) Shooting and moving. With the instructor holding your belt and directing you. Clearing malfunctions (from a pump gun). And is that sight on backwards? And... Speed shooting on STEEL TARGETS!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 12, 2014 The classroom is in new castle. He also does classes at cabelas. Delaware has its own guidelines for ccw and he does the classes for cabelas at cabelas. All these guys you named for classes. Are they local? I'll know in a few hours if it's a good class or clown shoes. Most I'll be out is $135 and 3 hours. But at least I got some range time in. Without being le or military there aren't many options in where you can move and shoot. But I def think you guys aren't giving the place a chance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjd832 146 Posted October 12, 2014 Lol I was thinking of making the reference But wasn't sure if people would get it ....video is priceless.. Lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted October 12, 2014 Had a great time. 4 people including me in the class. Did forward backwards, left and right, figure 8, engaging 1-4 targets, reloads, firing from cover. Went through 400 + rounds I'd love to have a place to shoot like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites