NJ CCW, Where are we?

[Parker 213]

The problem is not ONLY demographics, although those will eventually do us in. Maybe not everywhere within the lifetime of Mipafox (the avatar formerly known as Phosgene). However that will take 2-3 generations, 40-50 years. A more immediate threat is the brainwashing of our children, which has been going on right under our noses for the last several decades. 

 

Take one issue, gay marriage. To say it was not a mainstream issue 10 years ago is an understatement. It was but a gleam in the eyes of kooky leftists and gay activists. In 2008 Pres.-elect Ebola and Hillary Fat Legs both declared their devotion and undying dedication to traditional marriage. In just four years gay marriage became a plank in the Democratic Party platform. One buffoon after the other got up at the convention to show his/her support for "being able to love anyone (or presumably any thing) you want." 

 

You guys think I'm a kook. Want to read something REALLY kooky: 61% of Republican-leaning voters aged 18-29 support same-sex marriage as per a 2014 poll. Imagine how many democrat-leaning kids support it? We have lots of 17-29 year olds in our extended family. Every single one thinks I'm Hitler because I believe we should think more deeply about this issue, and for suggesting that it may not be a great idea.

 

I'm not chiming in here pro or anti gay marriage, just pointing out what kids think about this critical left-wing issue.

 

Closer to home, another poll showed support for gun ownership to be just 41% among those aged 18-29, 42% among married women, and a pathetic 31% among unmarried women (lots more of those than you think as marriage rates decline).

 

Think about it: These 18-29 year olds are voting today, and will be running for political office beginning now and over the next 20-30 years. Also, half the voters in the U.S., and presumably in Pennsylvania, are women. 

 

 

I would pick my timeframes for the maturation or evolution of issues like this one with great caution. Things happen a lot faster these days than when the telegraph was the only form of long-distance communication.

 

Sad to say, much of what you've said here is true. It's pretty evident the writing is on the wall, it's now just a matter of time.

[Fawkesguy 57]

The problem is not ONLY demographics, although those will eventually do us in. Maybe not everywhere within the lifetime of Mipafox (the avatar formerly known as Phosgene). However that will take 2-3 generations, 40-50 years. A more immediate threat is the brainwashing of our children, which has been going on right under our noses for the last several decades. 

 

Take one issue, gay marriage. To say it was not a mainstream issue 10 years ago is an understatement. It was but a gleam in the eyes of kooky leftists and gay activists. In 2008 Pres.-elect Ebola and Hillary Fat Legs both declared their devotion and undying dedication to traditional marriage. In just four years gay marriage became a plank in the Democratic Party platform. One buffoon after the other got up at the convention to show his/her support for "being able to love anyone (or presumably any thing) you want." 

 

You guys think I'm a kook. Want to read something REALLY kooky: 61% of Republican-leaning voters aged 18-29 support same-sex marriage as per a 2014 poll. Imagine how many democrat-leaning kids support it? We have lots of 17-29 year olds in our extended family. Every single one thinks I'm Hitler because I believe we should think more deeply about this issue, and for suggesting that it may not be a great idea.

 

I'm not chiming in here pro or anti gay marriage, just pointing out what kids think about this critical left-wing issue.

 

Closer to home, another poll showed support for gun ownership to be just 41% among those aged 18-29, 42% among married women, and a pathetic 31% among unmarried women (lots more of those than you think as marriage rates decline).

 

Think about it: These 18-29 year olds are voting today, and will be running for political office beginning now and over the next 20-30 years. Also, half the voters in the U.S., and presumably in Pennsylvania, are women. 

 

 

I would pick my timeframes for the maturation or evolution of issues like this one with great caution. Things happen a lot faster these days than when the telegraph was the only form of long-distance communication.

 

I think you're right on the money.  Not everyone thinks you're a kook. 

 

.....but I do miss your old avatar.

[Newtonian 453]

I think you're right on the money.  Not everyone thinks you're a kook. 

 

.....but I do miss your old avatar.

Do you remember what it was? The current one is the "Poconos Bounty Hunter." If he reads this forum I'm in big trouble.

[Fawkesguy 57]

Do you remember what it was? The current one is the "Poconos Bounty Hunter." If he reads this forum I'm in big trouble.

 

It's good to be the King.  :-)

[Newtonian 453]

Closer to home, another poll showed support for gun ownership to be just 41% among those aged 18-29, 42% among married women, and a pathetic 31% among unmarried women (lots more of those than you think as marriage rates decline).

The way this question was worded, I'm sure that a decent percentage of those who support gun ownership within these demographics believe in the Mike Bloomberg/Andrew Cuomo version of gun rights. In other words that it should be limited to hunters, olympic shooters, or individuals with specifically defined needs.

 

Many of our most malodorous politicians claim to "support the Second Amendment," whatever that is supposed to mean. My sister-in-law, who lives in England, is proud that her father owns a shotgun. Problem is, except for the very rare times he shoots, it is locked away at the local police station. 

[Newtonian 453]

It's good to be the King.  :-)

Of course. That's still hanging around. I'm in the mood to change it again to something completely different. 

[mikelets456 78]

The problem is not ONLY demographics, although those will eventually do us in. Maybe not everywhere within the lifetime of Mipafox (the avatar formerly known as Phosgene). However that will take 2-3 generations, 40-50 years. A more immediate threat is the brainwashing of our children, which has been going on right under our noses for the last several decades. 

 

Take one issue, gay marriage. To say it was not a mainstream issue 10 years ago is an understatement. It was but a gleam in the eyes of kooky leftists and gay activists. In 2008 Pres.-elect Ebola and Hillary Fat Legs both declared their devotion and undying dedication to traditional marriage. In just four years gay marriage became a plank in the Democratic Party platform. One buffoon after the other got up at the convention to show his/her support for "being able to love anyone (or presumably any thing) you want." 

 

You guys think I'm a kook. Want to read something REALLY kooky: 61% of Republican-leaning voters aged 18-29 support same-sex marriage as per a 2014 poll. Imagine how many democrat-leaning kids support it? We have lots of 17-29 year olds in our extended family. Every single one thinks I'm Hitler because I believe we should think more deeply about this issue, and for suggesting that it may not be a great idea.

 

I'm not chiming in here pro or anti gay marriage, just pointing out what kids think about this critical left-wing issue.

 

Closer to home, another poll showed support for gun ownership to be just 41% among those aged 18-29, 42% among married women, and a pathetic 31% among unmarried women (lots more of those than you think as marriage rates decline).

 

Think about it: These 18-29 year olds are voting today, and will be running for political office beginning now and over the next 20-30 years. Also, half the voters in the U.S., and presumably in Pennsylvania, are women. 

 

 

I would pick my timeframes for the maturation or evolution of issues like this one with great caution. Things happen a lot faster these days than when the telegraph was the only form of long-distance communication.

 

 

I beg to differ on the gun side of things. What I believe is happening are more Libertarian types coming up through the ranks. First off, regarding women and guns:

 

Gun sales soar among women: http://www.wgxa.tv/story/gun-sales-among-women-soaring-20140207#axzz3G8yXRvHc

Female gun ownership up 77%: http://townhall.com/columnists/celiabigelow/2013/02/27/why-female-gun-ownership-is-up-77-since-2005-n1521739/page/full

Boom in gun ownership: http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2012/08/23/what-the-left-wont-tell-you-about-the-boom-in-u-s-gun-sales/

States concealed carry skyrocket among women: http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023740786_concealedcarryrisexml.html

 

Up until 6 years ago I considered myself a Republican as with all my friends. Within a few years, it became obvious we've been lied to by; Rinos, Dems, progressives in both parties, etc. We become more libertarian in most of our thinking...my entire "Republican" philosophy was turned "upside down". Did I go from ® to (D)? Nope, I went from typical big government ® to more open minded, freedom thinking, limited government rationale. I believe people are changing their thinking more to a way we have not seen in decades or more. Tea party, end the FED, libertarian movements, etc...Just because gay marriage is popular, most people now believe government has no place in marriage. 6 years ago that would not have even been mentioned. People are waking up to "life, liberty and happiness"...smaller government. Look at abortion, support for it has dropped drastically. Look at school taxes, people ain't buying the "it's for the children" BS anymore. Anyway, I understand what you're saying, but I believe a new sect of Americans are thinking outside of the two party system and thinking in a way, (because they see BIG government destruction) that is freedom oriented not government oriented...understand?

[njpilot 671]

 

 

Up until 6 years ago I considered myself a Republican as with all my friends. Within a few years, it became obvious we've been lied to by; Rinos, Dems, progressives in both parties, etc. We become more libertarian in most of our thinking...my entire "Republican" philosophy was turned "upside down". Did I go from ® to (D)? Nope, I went from typical big government ® to more open minded, freedom thinking, limited government rationale. I believe people are changing their thinking more to a way we have not seen in decades or more. Tea party, end the FED, libertarian movements, etc...

 

. Anyway, I understand what you're saying, but I believe a new sect of Americans are thinking outside of the two party system and thinking in a way, (because they see BIG government destruction) that is freedom oriented not government oriented...understand?

 

Feel the same way.

[mipafox 438]

 

Between 1920 and 1988 Pa voted Republican in 12 presidential elections and Democrat in 7. Since 1992 it has voted Democrat six straight times.

 

This is a trend we're seeing all over. Florida a battleground state? Colorado and Nevada Democrat?

 

In 1960 Nixon campaigned in 49 states. In 2012 the battleground states numbered fewer than 20. When I lived in NH the state was solidly Republican. Now...

 

It swings back and forth somewhat. NJ has a "republican" governor and NYC elected a "republican" mayor a few cycles ago. But the trend is unmistakable. The country is becoming more liberal. Just wait until all those professional weed whackers hanging out on corners in Easton get the vote. Spread them out into the rural counties and before long you'll have a New Jersey type mess.

 

Outposts of sanity will probably endure here and there for decades. Some states will pass less restrictive gun laws. Yes it's been a very good 28 years for gun rights but this is where the fun ends. As long as the Supreme Court refuses substantive 2nd Amendment cases we are at the mercy of the voting hordes. 

 

As I've warned many times this is as good as it will ever get. Just as happened with upstate NY, when Pennsylvania politicians realize they don't need the hillbilly vote they will turn on gun rights like maggots on roadkill. A magazine ban here, an assault rifle ban there, restricting concealed carry reciprocity, the possibilities are endless. 

 

You missed my point. Governors and Presidents do not write PA's gun laws. Legislators do.

 

When is the last time NJ had R majority in both houses?

 

Like I said, we could never elect an R governor or president again and we would still be an R state. Packing Bucks, Montco, Monroe, and Philly with a million libs will not get Bloomdouche what he wants.

 

And, as stated, strongest gun culture in the nation, and as pointed out, we have a constitution. And that constitution has been upheld repeatedly.

 

Haters gonna hate. PA will have pro-gun laws signed under Wolf, just like we did under Fast Eddie. Wolf is not nearly as bad.

[Newtonian 453]

I beg to differ on the gun side of things. What I believe is happening are more Libertarian types coming up through the ranks. First off, regarding women and guns:

 

Gun sales soar among women: http://www.wgxa.tv/story/gun-sales-among-women-soaring-20140207#axzz3G8yXRvHc

Female gun ownership up 77%: http://townhall.com/columnists/celiabigelow/2013/02/27/why-female-gun-ownership-is-up-77-since-2005-n1521739/page/full

Boom in gun ownership: http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2012/08/23/what-the-left-wont-tell-you-about-the-boom-in-u-s-gun-sales/

States concealed carry skyrocket among women: http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023740786_concealedcarryrisexml.html

 

Up until 6 years ago I considered myself a Republican as with all my friends. Within a few years, it became obvious we've been lied to by; Rinos, Dems, progressives in both parties, etc. We become more libertarian in most of our thinking...my entire "Republican" philosophy was turned "upside down". Did I go from ® to (D)? Nope, I went from typical big government ® to more open minded, freedom thinking, limited government rationale. I believe people are changing their thinking more to a way we have not seen in decades or more. Tea party, end the FED, libertarian movements, etc...Just because gay marriage is popular, most people now believe government has no place in marriage. 6 years ago that would not have even been mentioned. People are waking up to "life, liberty and happiness"...smaller government. Look at abortion, support for it has dropped drastically. Look at school taxes, people ain't buying the "it's for the children" BS anymore. Anyway, I understand what you're saying, but I believe a new sect of Americans are thinking outside of the two party system and thinking in a way, (because they see BIG government destruction) that is freedom oriented not government oriented...understand?

You sound like I did when I first discovered libertarianism at age 30. You're saying all the right things. Unfortunately the only people who vote libertarian these days are the few remaining principled individuals who don't care about stealing votes from lesser-of-two-evil Republicans, and ignoramuses who think it's the same as "liberal." If Ron Paul had truly campaigned as a libertarian he would have received 90% fewer votes.

 

No question this is the heyday of gun rights in America. I've declared it at least 10 times in these forums. It began when Florida introduced shall-issue CCW and continues although don't believe all the industry propaganda you read. 

 

That doesn't guarantee the pendulum won't swing the other way. And it will, for reasons I've already written. The direction of our culture is NOT for smaller, more intelligent government. We've had oodles of opportunity to make it so but have rejected it, by and large, at every election. Our national direction is toward greater dependence, greater intrusion especially from but not limited to the federal government, more "compassion" and "inclusion" to the exclusion of common sense, and a host of wasteful and counter-productive policies which in a previous time we might have termed immoral or even sinful. Certainly "stupid" or "scandalous."

 

 

The key is the up and coming generations who are nearly completely brainwashed. 

[Newtonian 453]

 

 

You missed my point. Governors and Presidents do not write PA's gun laws. Legislators do.

 

When is the last time NJ had R majority in both houses?

 

Like I said, we could never elect an R governor or president again and we would still be an R state. Packing Bucks, Montco, Monroe, and Philly with a million libs will not get Bloomdouche what he wants.

 

And, as stated, strongest gun culture in the nation, and as pointed out, we have a constitution. And that constitution has been upheld repeatedly.

 

Haters gonna hate. PA will have pro-gun laws signed under Wolf, just like we did under Fast Eddie. Wolf is not nearly as bad.

And once the pro-gun legislators are run out of office you can have as many pro-gun people as you like, you're still going to lose.

 

You have gun rights in your constitution? Don't make me laugh. We have it in the U.S. constitution as well. Is NJ part of the United States of America? Is New York City? Even our highest court does not believe enough in one of our founding documents to address the issue of a plainly, clearly enunciated right. There's no reason why a PA supreme court 20 years from now cannot treat your constitution just as frivolously. 

 

Edit: NJ had a veto-proof Republican majority in both houses in 1990, I believe. I had just moved here. As soon as they were sworn in in 1991 they repudiated the entire platform on which they ran, i.e. relief from taxes imposed by Jim Florio and his puppet legislature. Some day when I have nothing to do I will visit the archives of the NJ Herald, fish out the photo and caption, and post it here.

[quikz 34]

Surely.

 

It is ALOT easier to terraform and colonise Mars. I would give up on NJ and look to the Heavens. Better chance for success.

[Newtonian 453]

Not to pick on Mipa, not to twist this thread beyond recognition, but believing "it can't happen here" is a formula for disaster.

 

Check this news story from red-meat red state Texas (pause the video at the top of the page). Houston has gone mad. They evidently passed a "non-discrimination" law a while back, and are now demanding that pastors turn over copies of sermons and communications with their congregations, in the expectation of uncovering speech critical of the city's lesbian mayor. 

 

The pastors are fighting back and will probably win. Maybe. This time.

 

First Amendment anyone?

 

The sad thing about legal proceedings like these are the government can bring such actions as often and indiscriminately as it likes, and only has to win once.

 

Section 6 of the Texas state constitution guarantees freedom of religion; Section 8 covers freedom of speech. Attorneys for the city of Houston have either not read this law or have chosen to disregard it.

 

If a city in a majority Republican state can trample on the right to free speech, what is to stop one city, then another, then another in a majority Democratic state -- or the legislature itself, one day in the not-too-distant future -- from eroding 2nd Amendment rights?

[intercooler 41]

libertarians in many cases cost republican's victory because they vote 3rd party

it's to the point where the Dems actively support "independent libertarian" candidates to syphon votes away as a tactic.

[A-Tech 8]

libertarians in many cases cost republican's victory because they vote 3rd party

it's to the point where the Dems actively support "independent libertarian" candidates to syphon votes away as a tactic.

They don't cost Republican votes. That's like saying Democrats cost Republican votes. People like Ron/Rand Paul both ran as Republicans as well as Gary Johnson and Allen West. Me personally, I believe in anarcho-liberty. So whoever that candidate is that best represents me, is who gets my vote. If nobody represents me, then my vote goes to the independent libertarian in hopes of securing enough votes to get on the debate next time around.

[mikelets456 78]

Not to pick on Mipa, not to twist this thread beyond recognition, but believing "it can't happen here" is a formula for disaster.

 

Check this news story from red-meat red state Texas (pause the video at the top of the page). Houston has gone mad. They evidently passed a "non-discrimination" law a while back, and are now demanding that pastors turn over copies of sermons and communications with their congregations, in the expectation of uncovering speech critical of the city's lesbian mayor. 

 

The pastors are fighting back and will probably win. Maybe. This time.

 

First Amendment anyone?

 

The sad thing about legal proceedings like these are the government can bring such actions as often and indiscriminately as it likes, and only has to win once.

 

Section 6 of the Texas state constitution guarantees freedom of religion; Section 8 covers freedom of speech. Attorneys for the city of Houston have either not read this law or have chosen to disregard it.

 

If a city in a majority Republican state can trample on the right to free speech, what is to stop one city, then another, then another in a majority Democratic state -- or the legislature itself, one day in the not-too-distant future -- from eroding 2nd Amendment rights?

 

 

Very true and I read this VERY DISTURBING story this morning. BTW, tyranny does not care about votes nor does it care about freedom nor rights----it only cares about power and control. This nut case shows what happens when people in power don't care about freedom, the Constitution or liberty. BIG government does what it wants...problem is, it won't change unless the people change.

[Newtonian 453]

Very true and I read this VERY DISTURBING story this morning. BTW, tyranny does not care about votes nor does it care about freedom nor rights----it only cares about power and control. This nut case shows what happens when people in power don't care about freedom, the Constitution or liberty. BIG government does what it wants...problem is, it won't change unless the people change.

Even 30 years ago, when I was a liberal, I would vote against each and every person responsible for this travesty. They should be recalled, run out of the city. The town attorneys who filed that paperwork should be ashamed of themselves, disbarred, tarred and feathered. Then again, where were the voters when that ridiculous law was passed? 

[M1152 713]

Section 6 of the Texas state constitution guarantees freedom of religion; Section 8 covers freedom of speech. Attorneys for the city of Houston have either not read this law or have chosen to disregard it.

 

That’s pretty funny you called me out for mentioning the PA state constitution but now you cite the Texas state constitution, LOL. That’s a bridge too far IMO but kudos for trying. Let’s be realistic, if there were a battle over 2A rights between Federal and State law we would be siding with the governing body that was more inline with our stance.

 

As far as your Texas anxiety the politicians will likely prevail on that one because it is a politically charged issue and the politicians likely feel those pastors drifted too far off the reservation.  Think of it think way,  it’s kind of like Bryan Miller the executive director of Heeding God's Call receiving nonprofit status to hammer away on NJ law-abiding citizens who happen to be firearms owners....

[Newtonian 453]

That’s pretty funny you called me out for mentioning the PA state constitution but now you cite the Texas state constitution, LOL. That’s a bridge too far IMO but kudos for trying. Let’s be realistic, if there were a battle over 2A rights between Federal and State law we would be siding with the governing body that was more inline with our stance.

 

As far as your Texas anxiety the politicians will likely prevail on that one because it is a politically charged issue and the politicians likely feel those pastors drifted too far off the reservation.  Think of it think way,  it’s kind of like Bryan Miller the executive director of Heeding God's Call receiving nonprofit status to hammer away on NJ law-abiding citizens who happen to be firearms owners....

I should quote more actively and accurately. I was calling out Mipafox, who mentioned that gun rights are in the Pennsylvania constitution. They are also in the U.S. Constitution. Lot of good that does us.

 

It sounds like you kind of agree with me. Am I being thick?

 

Bryan Miller is an addled old liberal scumbag douchebag. Holding up the cross! Muh muh muh muh Jesus.

 

The assholes in those photos on the website make me vomit. Stupid beyond belief, and deluded as to who is really committing the handgun crimes in this country. Was that poor black guy in the wheelchair crippled by an NRA member? DUHHHHHH.

 

If Miller believes in God, and there is a God, and He's the God I hope exists but am not sure that does, then Miller will surely rot in hell for all eternity. And it could not come to pass too soon.

[M1152 713]

I should quote more actively and accurately. I was calling out Mipafox, who mentioned that gun rights are in the Pennsylvania constitution. They are also in the U.S. Constitution. Lot of good that does us.

 

It sounds like you kind of agree with me. Am I being thick?

 

Bryan Miller is an addled old liberal scumbag douchebag. Holding up the cross! Muh muh muh muh Jesus.

 

The assholes in those photos on the website make me vomit. Stupid beyond belief, and deluded as to who is really committing the handgun crimes in this country. Was that poor black guy in the wheelchair crippled by an NRA member? DUHHHHHH.

 

If Miller believes in God, and there is a God, and He's the God I hope exists but am not sure that does, then Miller will surely rot in hell for all eternity. And it could not come to pass too soon.

 

 

agreed, as far as placing blame I forget where I seen first but MSNBC was blaming the NRA for Ebola it never ends… let me just add the surgeon general is a political hack

[njpilot 671]

agreed, as far as placing blame I forget where I seen first but MSNBC was blaming the NRA for Ebola it never ends… let me just add the surgeon general is a political hack

Yes he's is. We don't need some anti-gun asshole playing politics in the Surgeon General position.

 

We need an honest, non-political medical professional. Not something you'll ever see from the Asshole-in-Chief.

[Midwest 28]

 

 

  it’s kind of like Bryan Miller the executive director of Heeding God's Call receiving nonprofit status to hammer away on NJ law-abiding citizens who happen to be firearms owners....

 

Is he is using his non profit status for political purposes or excessive lobbying purposes? (see below). He could lose his 501c3. 

 

Then the  NJ2AS should file a complaint with the IRS and start a lawsuit against his organization....if he is using his non-profit status for political or excessive lobbying purposes. 

 

 

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-much-lobbying-can-nonprofit-do.html

 

 

"How Much Lobbying is Too Much?

 

 

The vast majority of nonprofits use the IRS's “substantial part test” to determine how much they can lobby. This is the default test that will be automatically applied to your nonprofit if you don’t make an IRS election to use the other test, called the expenditures test. Churches are required to use this test.

 

Under this test, a nonprofit will qualify for tax-exempt status as long as no “substantial part” of its overall activities relates to influencing legislation or carrying on propaganda.

 

Unfortunately, this has never been clearly defined. The only IRS guidance on the issue is that it will look at “all the pertinent facts and circumstances in each case.” Among the factors the IRS considers are the time devoted to lobbying by both your paid and volunteer workers and the amount of money your organization spends on lobbying. Other factors could be considered as well—for example, the amount of publicity your organization assigns to the activity, the continuous or intermittent nature of your attention to it, and the impact of the lobbying efforts.

 

 

According to one survey, 85% of nonprofits devote less than two per cent of their budgets to lobbying—well under the five per cent rule of thumb. However, the consequences are severe if you make a mistake and flunk the substantial part test. If the IRS determines that a substantial part of your overall activities relate to lobbying, it will revoke your tax-exempt status for that year. This is a death sentence for most nonprofits because it results in all of the nonprofit’s income being subject to tax. In addition, donors to the organization can not deduct their contributions, and you might have to pay a special excise tax equal to five percent of your lobbying expenditures. This tax can be imposed on your organization’s managers personally if they agreed to the lobbying expenditures knowing that it would likely result in the loss of tax-exempt status. While it may be unlikely that you would find yourself in this position, it is something you want to be aware of because the consequences are so severe."

 

 

("Find me a way to revoke Delta's charter  their 501c3. You live next door in NJ. Put Neidermeyer  the NJ2AS on it ")

[M1152 713]

Then the  NJ2AS should file a complaint with the IRS and start a lawsuit against his organization....if he is using his non-profit status for political or excessive lobbying purposes. 

 

Probably falls into the fine-line or  Big Can of Worms category, this kind of sums it up.

 

"The NRA itself is tax exempt (it is nonprofit to the extent of paying no corporate taxes, but donations to it are not deductible to the donor), while some associated organizations such as the NRA CIvil Rights Defense Fund can give deductibility to the donor". (cut & pasted this from another site)

 

Meanwhile back at msnbc medical correspondent Nancy Snyderman admits violating Ebola quarantine in New Jersey

 

EDIT:

Let me just add I see why organizations want the non-profit status. At least people know what the NRA however Miller’s organization is scam hiding behind religion.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Exactly how long have we been living in the heyday of gun laws? One year? 5 years? 10 years? For those that are espousing, "I've been saying for years that we are living in a golden era of gun laws. Enjoy it while it lasts!" How many years have you been saying this? Because it seems that each year the "golden era" keeps on expanding.

 

Many areas where no one ever thought CCW would come HAS come. Detroit, Cali, DC, etc. Those areas were "lost casuses" and "it will never happen there" and it did happen.

 

Call me a patient optimist in regards to NJ gun laws. I think eventually it will happen here. Maybe not this year or next year or the following year. But I for one WILL NOT give up hope.

 

Here are a few reasons why:

 

1. As previously mentioned, the past few years have ADDED gun owners to the population. Regardless of their political leanings there are, and continue to be, more gun owners than the year before.

 

2. More gun owners means more awarness of the anti's attempt to restict gun ownership. Prior to becoming a gun owner people didn't care about anti laws and attempts to push more restrictions. It didn't effect them. Now it does.

 

3. More gun owners being more concerned about their rights means conversations being had. You may have noticed the past few years more people talking about being interested in purchasing their first gun or having recently purchased one. I've had conversations with soccer moms, brain surgeons and others who are intersted. I've helped one friend get his FID and helped him purchase his first handgun. The more new gun owners there are the more the sterotype of who owns guns falls. The more accepted gun ownership becomes, the less of a negative stigma is attaxhed to being a gun owner.

 

3. More and more people are realizing that only they are reaponsible for their safety. Recent events such as hurricane Sandy, the shooting at the Short Hills Mall, the knock out "game", the riots in Ferguson, MO, etc, etc are making people realize that help may not be there, or even coming at all, when they need it most.

 

Yes NJ gun laws are aweful and behind the times. But I believe eventually NJ will be dragged kicking and screaming to be more in line with the rest of the country.

 

The antis can try, and may succeed at, passing stricter legislation. But NEVER let your hope be taken, NEVER let your spirit be crushed.

[Newtonian 453]

Exactly how long have we been living in the heyday of gun laws? One year? 5 years? 10 years? For those that are espousing, "I've been saying for years that we are living in a golden era of gun laws. Enjoy it while it lasts!" How many years have you been saying this? Because it seems that each year the "golden era" keeps on expanding.

As I've noted, and as a historical fact, the shall-issue concealed carry movement picked up steam in the late 1980s. Currently about 40 states have it, and Connecticut is de facto shall-issue. California, NY, and Massachusetts are true may-issue. Depends on where you live, basically. If NJ followed the same philosophy then Sussex and Warren counties would routinely issue carry permits. Maryland, Hawaii, and NJ are de facto no-issue.

 

So we went from one or two states to about 41-44, depending on how you group the true may-issue jurisdictions. And yes there are more guns, more carry permits than ever before. And yes many states are increasing the scope of gun rights.

 

But don't get seduced by the gun industry's and the gun media's hype of their own successes. I would guess that nearly all those new guns and permits accrue to people who already like (and in most cases own) guns. My 82 year old gun-hating mother is not going to move to PA so she can get her carry permit. The 59% of 18-29 year olds who believe in gun control, and the 10-15% who believe in gun rights for hunters only, are not going to purchase handguns with their next paycheck and apply for carry permits. 

 

The only policies that have consistently expanded on and on are those that are liberal and redistributionist. Pick any ten hot issues from 1960, and the only ones that have improved from the standpoint of common sense and the constitution are guns, and possibly the status of Black Americans (although I have contrary thoughts on that one). 

 

Nothing good goes on forever. As I've argued our culture is becoming more liberal, and at an astonishing pace. This is easily quantified through opinion polls, what constitutes the "center" of politics today, the number of contested states in presidential elections, and -- ultimately -- demographics.

 

I posted two articles just this past week from red states: a Texas city hauling pastors into court for possibly disparaging comments about lesbians, and a school in Nebraska considering dropping all pronouns and nouns that suggest a student's sex. 

 

Today's pajama boy and "teach men not to rape" witches are tomorrow's voters and, frighteningly, politicians. If you think it can't happen "here" ask the remaining conservatives in New Hampshire, California, etc. how it happened "there." 

 

Bottom line: This is indeed the heyday of gun rights in the USA. It's never been better. It will probably get better still. But it's inevitable that the pendulum will swing back. Maybe not in the lifetimes of some of the older guys here, although I think many of us will see some erosion of rights (e.g. NY, CT, MA). But if you're in your 20s or 30s and don't die from Ebola I'm 100% certain you will see not just the erosion of gun rights, but of all our rights. 

[AlDente67 563]

thats the point.  It does not take Masses to move to PA to make changes it just takes strategic moves.  Put a few here and a few there, Wont be long till those few become quite a large amount of government clients.  I in no way wish this on PA but i think its going to happen one state at a time, especially on the east coast..   I spend hours a day in my car and i see more and more PA lic plates coming to NY in the AM and Leaving in the PM... These are Nyers that moved to pa

Interesting observation, as that is not an easy commute.  But coupled with the other post about the Poconos turning, it got my attention.  A good friend who owns a business in Brooklyn fled to the Poconos (well, Wind Gap, which is pretty close).  He gets up at 4am every day and drives to the shop, then leaves early to beat the Rt 80 traffic.  Talk about racking up the miles on the car.

 

But I always enjoy making the drive up to the house to do things we cannot do here...shoot with 30 round mags, shoot full auto, etc right in the yard...nobody bothers you.  The nearest neighbor does a fireworks show every 4th that would make the Grucci family proud.

I just seems like an area where everyone lives and lets live.  It is sad to hear that a sea change is underway up there.

[revenger 473]

After reading the story on Ammoland.com today about the DC council's  permitting scheme it is clear that the SAF will have to appeal this to the SCOTUS. 

[ElmerFudd 0]

The idea that the 18-29 generation (mine) is being brainwashed or easily manipulated into something is kinda strange seeing as how this is the voting generation that has more access to information (and contrary viewpoints) than ever before.  While there are trends and there will always be groupthink when it comes to hot topics discuss in a specific social circle, by and large this group seeks information that reinforces beliefs that they already hold.  That's nothing different than coming on to this site to discuss gun ownership and gun rights with other gun owners.  

 

When looking at the trends, let's not forget what people are factoring in here.  For the 18-29 crowd, the fear of a mass school shooting, or small-scale terrorist attack is much more real than the draft, or any notions of war (civil or otherwise).  For my generation, war exists mainly in the background, as a thing that the US does routinely and has no effect on anything other than gas prices.  Those of us who support 2A, tend to do so for personal reasons rather than socio-political reasons, and are ill-advised to do so openly.  

 

The strongest strategy for those looking to sway the younger crowd of voters, or the political tide for the 2A movement is to un-couple it with so many other issues.  Personally, unlike many on this site, I'm pro gay marriage, pro abortion rights, pro healthcare reform (in the interest of preventative medicine only), and pro welfare (not monetary but in the form of financial education, and trade development in struggling classes).  But none of that has anything to do with the second amendment.  If anything, the second amendment should only be used to protect my right to hold those beliefs.  

 

When you un-couple 2A rights from all those others, it becomes less of a partisan gimmick and more of a debatable social issue where logic may reign (i.e. Safety vs. Security NSA/Snowden issues, and foreign interventionism)

[Old Dog 19]

That is what I did and could not be happier. The big difference between there and here is that here most of my neighbors own guns and the overwhelming majority support my right to own and carry one. In NJ, there were only two of us in my development that owned guns. I ended up in two major arguments when I mentioned guns to two neighbors who were very anti gun. So I ended up keeping a low profile and never talking guns to anyone outside of the gun club. Here, I can talk guns with just about anyone, men and women.

[jackandjill 683]

......

 

The strongest strategy for those looking to sway the younger crowd of voters, or the political tide for the 2A movement is to un-couple it with so many other issues.  Personally, unlike many on this site, I'm pro gay marriage, pro abortion rights, pro healthcare reform (in the interest of preventative medicine only), and pro welfare (not monetary but in the form of financial education, and trade development in struggling classes).  But none of that has anything to do with the second amendment.  If anything, the second amendment should only be used to protect my right to hold those beliefs.  

 

When you un-couple 2A rights from all those others, it becomes less of a partisan gimmick and more of a debatable social issue where logic may reign (i.e. Safety vs. Security NSA/Snowden issues, and foreign interventionism)

Unfortunately, large percentage of the population is like a float in the ocean. They go where tide takes them. For example, good amount of society associates firearms with gangs and thugs. They have similar, blanket view of drugs.  Even large organizations, such as ACLU took sides and view 2A not as an individual right.

 

Only hope with every generation is that they will be smarter and take issues with objective outlook.