NJ CCW, Where are we?

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Unfortunately, large percentage of the population is like a float in the ocean. They go where tide takes them. For example, good amount of society associates firearms with gangs and thugs. They have similar, blanket view of drugs.  Even large organizations, such as ACLU took sides and view 2A not as an individual right.

 

 

The "Sheeples," as we call them. Influenced by the MSM and the public school systems (i.e. Common Core). I wish there was an easier way to get at them, but both things I mentioned have an extremely tight grip on them.

[mipafox 438]

 

Not to pick on Mipa, not to twist this thread beyond recognition, but believing "it can't happen here" is a formula for disaster.

 

Check this news story from red-meat red state Texas (pause the video at the top of the page). Houston has gone mad. They evidently passed a "non-discrimination" law a while back, and are now demanding that pastors turn over copies of sermons and communications with their congregations, in the expectation of uncovering speech critical of the city's lesbian mayor. 

 

The pastors are fighting back and will probably win. Maybe. This time.

 

First Amendment anyone?

 

The sad thing about legal proceedings like these are the government can bring such actions as often and indiscriminately as it likes, and only has to win once.

 

Section 6 of the Texas state constitution guarantees freedom of religion; Section 8 covers freedom of speech. Attorneys for the city of Houston have either not read this law or have chosen to disregard it.

 

If a city in a majority Republican state can trample on the right to free speech, what is to stop one city, then another, then another in a majority Democratic state -- or the legislature itself, one day in the not-too-distant future -- from eroding 2nd Amendment rights?

 

 

When did I say "It can't happen here?"

 

I didn't. I said your predictions of imminent doom for PA are silly.

 

Texas? Texas doesn't have half the gun culture of PA, and certainly doesn't have as many carry permits. Texas will fall to anti-gunners long before PA.

 

You are still missing the two points. Almost all of PA districts are "R". A million douchebags from Njgunforums and NYGiantsforums couldn't change that. Second, gun laws are are being changed in favor of freedom over all in the US, and in PA. Why is it that people in Jersey think gun laws are getting worse when they are getting better nationwide?

 

Texas? Please. Texas will be dem in 4 years and there will never be another "R" president in the US or "R" Senator from Texas. But that won't change Texas gun laws. Texas is one of the few states stuck in the mud with shitty gun laws, but they are not going to make them any worse based on a popular vote.

 

You guys are not very savvy.

[ElmerFudd 0]

Texas? Texas doesn't have half the gun culture of PA, and certainly doesn't have as many carry permits. Texas will fall to anti-gunners long before PA.

 

 

What is this based on? I'm not disputing it but I don't see how you can compare the two objectively.  PA is traditionally much more of a battleground state than Texas politically (Texas isn't a battleground state at all).  

 

If people are more vocal about 2A issues in Texas, I would think that is because it isn't as much of a debate there.  PA on the other hand, sits right up here surrounded by places where new regulations are always on the table. 

[mikelets456 78]

What is this based on? I'm not disputing it but I don't see how you can compare the two objectively.  PA is traditionally much more of a battleground state than Texas politically (Texas isn't a battleground state at all).  

 

If people are more vocal about 2A issues in Texas, I would think that is because it isn't as much of a debate there.  PA on the other hand, sits right up here surrounded by places where new regulations are always on the table. 

 

I agree with you as well. However, for a North Eastern state, I believe the founding fathers installed a very strong gun culture in PA. That's not to say that PA could fall before TX, but who knows. Facts:

 

PA LTCF holders 2010: 760,000 TX 2013 CCW: 584,000

 

http://legallyarmed.com/ccw_statistics.htm

 

Only Florida has more than PA.... PA may be over a million by now.

 

Gun laws PA and more importantly the PA State Constitution:

Right to Bear Arms 

Section 21.

The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned. 

 

That is very strong wording.

 

Carry laws PA: nothing really off limits unless the federal government says it is. Open carry is legal (sometimes a permit is needed) and LTCF (many cases) is $20 and you're in/out in 20 minutes. No mandatory training. Most guns are legal...Castle law and stand your ground.

 

 

 

Also, PA is in the top 10 NRA membership and tops in hunting.

 

http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/top-states-turkey-hunting

 

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2013/04/great_american_outdoor_show_wi.html

[Midwest 28]

 

 

 LTCF (many cases) is $20 and you're in/out in 20 minutes. No mandatory training.

 

Pennsylvania is much better than Kentucky in that respect.

 

Here we have to pay $80 for an all day safety course, videos, open book, range time, target shooting and then after you pass you wait for a certificate to mailed to you.

 

Take the certificate down to the Sheriff , take some photos of you, fill out an application, pay county fee and state fee $60 total.

 

Then wait for the CDWL (Concealed Deadly Weapons License) to arrive at the Sheriff.

 

Then they notify you that it is ready for pick up.

[ryan_j 0]

The problem is not ONLY demographics, although those will eventually do us in. Maybe not everywhere within the lifetime of Mipafox (the avatar formerly known as Phosgene). However that will take 2-3 generations, 40-50 years. A more immediate threat is the brainwashing of our children, which has been going on right under our noses for the last several decades.

 

Take one issue, gay marriage. To say it was not a mainstream issue 10 years ago is an understatement. It was but a gleam in the eyes of kooky leftists and gay activists. In 2008 Pres.-elect Ebola and Hillary Fat Legs both declared their devotion and undying dedication to traditional marriage. In just four years gay marriage became a plank in the Democratic Party platform. One buffoon after the other got up at the convention to show his/her support for "being able to love anyone (or presumably any thing) you want."

 

You guys think I'm a kook. Want to read something REALLY kooky: 61% of Republican-leaning voters aged 18-29 support same-sex marriage as per a 2014 poll. Imagine how many democrat-leaning kids support it? We have lots of 17-29 year olds in our extended family. Every single one thinks I'm Hitler because I believe we should think more deeply about this issue, and for suggesting that it may not be a great idea.

 

I'm not chiming in here pro or anti gay marriage, just pointing out what kids think about this critical left-wing issue.

 

Closer to home, another poll showed support for gun ownership to be just 41% among those aged 18-29, 42% among married women, and a pathetic 31% among unmarried women (lots more of those than you think as marriage rates decline).

 

Think about it: These 18-29 year olds are voting today, and will be running for political office beginning now and over the next 20-30 years. Also, half the voters in the U.S., and presumably in Pennsylvania, are women.

 

 

I would pick my timeframes for the maturation or evolution of issues like this one with great caution. Things happen a lot faster these days than when the telegraph was the only form of long-distance communication.

Gay marriage got a boost when the courts began weighing in. When DOMA was struck down, it accelerated greatly.

 

Honestly I have zero problem with it. It's an issue of freedom and equal protection. Sorry to say but SCOTUS was right to strike down DOMA.

[Newtonian 453]

Gay marriage got a boost when the courts began weighing in. When DOMA was struck down, it accelerated greatly.

 

Honestly I have zero problem with it. It's an issue of freedom and equal protection. Sorry to say but SCOTUS was right to strike down DOMA.

You don't have to apologize for your opinion. It's something to think about. My problem is we're not thinking about it. We went from zero to 65 in about three years. We didn't enjoy the luxury of thinking about it. I went from on the fence to a "hater" practically overnight. I resent the barrage of propaganda. Sorry. Fukc them all. I don't get to push my agenda like that. 

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Interesting that POTUS just came out (pun intended) with the opinion that gay marriage is a Constitutionally protected right.,

but the right to keep and bear arms, which is specifically addressed in that same document, does not have his blessing.

 

And just to further derail this thread, while I don't have a strong opinion on the issue of gay marriage, I resent the fact that while the

people have consistently voted against it, a few judicial activists have forced it into practice.  So why can't we find any judicial

activists to support right to carry?  (There, I brought it back on topic.  )

[ryan_j 0]

You don't have to apologize for your opinion. It's something to think about. My problem is we're not thinking about it. We went from zero to 65 in about three years. We didn't enjoy the luxury of thinking about it. I went from on the fence to a "hater" practically overnight. I resent the barrage of propaganda. Sorry. Fukc them all. I don't get to push my agenda like that.

Talking to people in those legal circles this was hardly something thought of yesterday. The momentum was building up for a long time and victories were won - mostly outside the USA. I try to learn from others to formulate our strategy. The gay rights movement is a good example of how to do things and get results by attacking on multiple fronts, turning small victories into bigger ones, being persistent and PR. PR is their biggest weapon. People thing gays and lesbians are pumped up guys with thongs wiggling down the street. But things like the old lesbian couples who just looked normal brought humanity to it. We should learn and emulate and we are to some degree. People such as Shaneen Allen and Colion help to break the stereotype that gun owners are all old white men.

[ryan_j 0]

Interesting that POTUS just came out (pun intended) with the opinion that gay marriage is a Constitutionally protected right.,

but the right to keep and bear arms, which is specifically addressed in that same document, does not have his blessing.

 

And just to further derail this thread, while I don't have a strong opinion on the issue of gay marriage, I resent the fact that while the

people have consistently voted against it, a few judicial activists have forced it into practice. So why can't we find any judicial

activists to support right to carry? (There, I brought it back on topic. )

We have - just not in NJ but I feel we will prevail soon.

[Newtonian 453]

Talking to people in those legal circles this was hardly something thought of yesterday. The momentum was building up for a long time and victories were won - mostly outside the USA. I try to learn from others to formulate our strategy. The gay rights movement is a good example of how to do things and get results by attacking on multiple fronts, turning small victories into bigger ones, being persistent and PR. PR is their biggest weapon. People thing gays and lesbians are pumped up guys with thongs wiggling down the street. But things like the old lesbian couples who just looked normal brought humanity to it. We should learn and emulate and we are to some degree. People such as Shaneen Allen and Colion help to break the stereotype that gun owners are all old white men.

Man you own the term "mixing metaphors." Lots of stuff here. Look, my father (88 years old, Goldwater Republican) tells me "we always had queers. We left them alone." My sister Annette's Kindergarten teacher and her girl scout leader lived right next door to us, together. My mother used to tell me they were "friends." Everybody knew they were lesbians except for me, until I was about 25 years old. I was slow.

 

I'm still slow, as many on these boards will attest. I need to think things through. As a nation we need to think this through without pressure or ignorance of 10,000 years of history.

 

If Miss von Seegan and Miss Cappy could get by carpet munching with impunity, 15 feet from my parents' bedroom (through a very thick wall, I'll admit), in a prejudiced ethnic neighborhood dominated by ignorant Italian immigrants like me and my parents, back in the 1950s and 1960s, things cannot be so bad today. I don't think mainstream Americans care about that crap. 

 

Let's take a step back and ignore the slogans and think for ourselves.

[ManWithBeard 2]

Take the government control out of marriage and you wouldn't need laws governing it.

[mikelets456 78]

Take the government control out of marriage and you wouldn't need laws governing it.

 

 

Exactly! Why is government involved in the religious institution of marriage in the first place. I don't want them controlling, rewarding, hovering, meddling, etc in the affair of my marriage between me, my wife and God. This is a slippery slope we're on when government provides "equal protection" of groups. Obviously when one group is protected another loses a freedom. We're seeing it play out right before our eyes with the wedding cake scenarios, T-shirts, Pastor's in Houston forced to hand over sermon notes and now a  Minister being sued and fined for refusing to marry gays. Government needs to get the heck out of granting rights, protecting groups "favorites that they know will vote for them), etc...this is communism/fascism to the core. it sounds pretty but ultimately when government has the power to grant and take away rights, it becomes very deadly....

[SW9racer 262]

Marriage is taxed, hence government control over it

[CMJeepster 2,778]

Forget a firearm, we should all be carrying bug spray!!!  http://6abc.com/news/pa-cashier-stops-robber-with-bug-spray/359882/

[quikz 34]

Hmm...Mars looks better and better, everyday.