have P2Ps ever been challenged?

[boo 6]

Just curious if the P2P system has ever faced legal challenges? I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but what is the point of P2Ps when 1) I'm already doing a NICS check at time of transfer and 2) I already have several other handguns at home, all of which are registered with my local PD and NJSP. I could have sworn reading that California recently eliminated waiting periods for existing gun owners. Is that something NJ could capitalize on?

 

edit: Here's the CA ruling I was referring to:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/08/25/california-10-day-waiting-period-to-buy-gun-violates-the-second-amendment-as-to-people-who-are-known-to-the-state-to-already-own-guns/

[effd27145 0]

In the case of private sales a NICS check is not done at the time of the transfer. I am ok with a background being performed each time and I think they should be. The current process, as much of a pain in the ass as it is for permits, helps to cover those cases of private face-to-face handgun sales (obviously not long guns tho). In the mean time it is necessary until a more efficient process can be fought for and established (which probably wont happen anyway). The 30 day issue period is a losing battle no matter how you approach it.

[Midwest 28]

Just curious if the P2P system has ever faced legal challenges? I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but what is the point of P2Ps when 1) I'm already doing a NICS check at time of transfer and 2) I already have several other handguns at home, all of which are registered with my local PD and NJSP. I could have sworn reading that California recently eliminated waiting periods for existing gun owners. Is that something NJ could capitalize on?

Some states still have permits to purchase... like North Carolina, Michigan, Minnesota and Nebraska....However if one has a carry permit then they can bypass the permit to purchase part.

 

Illinois has a Firearms Owners ID Card, but there is no permit to purchase ...just a 3 day waiting period for handguns and 1 day waiting period for long guns. On the other side of the coin there is Rhode Island with a 7 day waiting period.

 

The NJ FID and permit to purchase handguns should have been dropped long ago. The FID is a relic from 1966 before there was a National Gun Control Law. (Illinois started their FOID in 1968 and Massachusetts in 1969). Still in NJ, no matter what permits a person has, there is the State NICS that has the final say anyway.

The Permit to Purchase and the FID  is redundant and a tremendous waste of paperwork and police time.

[ryan_j 0]

In the case of private sales a NICS check is not done at the time of the transfer. I am ok with a background being performed each time and I think they should be. The current process, as much of a pain in the ass as it is for permits, helps to cover those cases of private face-to-face handgun sales (obviously not long guns tho). In the mean time it is necessary until a more efficient process can be fought for and established (which probably wont happen anyway). The 30 day issue period is a losing battle no matter how you approach it.

I would be lucky if I could get a permit in 30 days. Try 6 months.

[effd27145 0]

I would be lucky if I could get a permit in 30 days. Try 6 months.

 

Took me about 4 and a half for my last round in Edison.

[magnawing 5]

I hate to brag, but....16 days.

 

However, I did get a call today from my local Firearms detective to tell me that his background check on me came back clean but the NJSP called to tell him about some bad check charges out of SC. He called to ask if I was aware of them. I let him know that they were 22 year old misdemeanors and I was aware of them. He didn't know how old they were and he was calling to make sure it wasn't a case of identity theft. I've known him for about 10 years so I'm sure it was legitimately a courtesy call.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

How would we avoid opening Pandora's box if there was a desire to reform the system?

[Midwest 28]

How would we avoid opening Pandora's box if there was a desire to reform the system?

 

 

Take the same approach as they did when they repealed the old police scanner scanner law and replaced it with S 305.

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.radio.amateur.misc/fDroQdZEa3s

 

In other words have someone write a bill to replace the one on the books. An oversimplification? Yes but I can't think of anything else....

[pjd832 146]

The Permit to Purchase and the FID  is redundant and a tremendous waste of paperwork and police time.

Whether it is intentional or not....I can definately say it has a deterring effect for a lot of people(certainly not those on this forum) I have spoken to countless people in passing including friends...male and female that have expressed an interest in purchasing a firearm...and ask what the process is...is shocked at how cumbersome it is...and say it's too much trouble and don't bother...

[jackandjill 683]

Whether it is intentional or not....I can definately say it has a deterring effect for a lot of people(certainly not those on this forum) I have spoken to countless people in passing including friends...male and female that have expressed an interest in purchasing a firearm...and ask what the process is...is shocked at how cumbersome it is...and say it's too much trouble and don't bother...

Then its working as State intended - discourage lawful ownership of firearms and encourage thugs on the street.

[Scorpio64 5,153]

NJ State will never give up the P2P process.  It's their only means of a gun registry without calling it a gun registry.

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

The state could simply give us dealers blank permits to be filled out at the time of purchase and then we would send in the copies as we do now, the state would still be able to register handguns (which they claim is needed to keep NJ safe). Ever since NICS was created the need to go to the PD to get a permit to buy from an FFL became obsolete.

 

I don't see that happening any time soon because it would make gun purchasing easier, something a majority of our legislators would never want to see happen.

[Midwest 28]

The state could simply give us dealers blank permits to be filled out at the time of purchase and then we would send in the copies as we do now, the state would still be able to register handguns (which they claim is needed to keep NJ safe). Ever since NICS was created the need to go to the PD to get a permit to buy from an FFL became obsolete.

 

I don't see that happening any time soon because it would make gun purchasing easier, something a majority of our legislators would never want to see happen.

 

Then point about the registration of handguns could be dealt with at POS (Point of sale). Since the State NICS takes of all final transactions anyway. The registration part for the handguns could be done by transcribing the handgun serial over the phone with out the need of a four part over redundant permit to purchase. The State NICS could keep a tally on when a handgun was last bought and they if over the one month period they could give the OK to buy a handgun.

 

In Illinois while they have a firearms card scheme. Their  process is much simpler. There is a three day wait for handguns and a one day wait for long guns. Once you have the FOID card, besides the waiting period ...your good to go. That is it, no permit to purchase.

 

I am not advocating firearm cards in any way. I think any kind of Firearms card scheme, permit or licensing  is a bad idea. But to satisfy all the anti-gunners in Trenton...one could use Illinois system as an example to streamline the process for New Jersey. But all aside Illinois FID scheme is better than New Jersey's archaic permit to purchase. A much better approach would be to just go to the federal NICS without any kind of BS permit system should be the ultimate goal...although I doubt that would happen in NJ. The NJ State NICS is beyond flawed in my opinion, the hours of operation are limited compared to the Federal NICS system.

 

The thing that sucks about Illinois system is that the card is required to possess firearms and ammo (as well as purchasing of course) whereas New Jersey does not require an FID for possession (as in the case if someone who moved from another state

into NJ).  http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

 

I used in a earlier thread the example on how the old NJ police scanner law was thrown out in favor of a new one called S 305 signed into law ironically by Florio. I would suggest following the same example. Draw up a new firearms legislation and use that to replace the old redundant one from 1966. I would use the term "streamlining" when marketing it to the folks in Trenton. 

[CMJeepster 2,777]

...But to satisfy all the anti-gunners in Trenton... 

 http://youtu.be/56KCBxADL64

[jackandjill 683]

NJ Repubs should introduce bills overhauling the old / useless stuff and name them lke "NJ Child Protection Act Of..." or "Anti Domestic Violence Act Of...."  or "Women Protection Act Of..." .  Introduce them around election time and put ads up as part of campaign.

 

See who doesnt vote for "Child Protection Act..."

[CMJeepster 2,777]

Goo idea.  Maybe I can have my representative Bonnie Watson Coleman help since she knows firearms first-hand after having her two sons commit and serve time for armed robbery (http://conservativenewjersey.com/hey-democrats-poll-this).

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

Bonnie Watson Coleman is the biggest POS. Her two "boys" are the reason they came up with the new law that you cannot ask for a background check on a job applicant until AFTER you offer the person a job. Her two fine "boys" are pillars of the community, in jail for armed robbery. She came up with the law so when they get out they can get jobs.

 

And she is running for Rush Holt's seat in Congess. The liberal dopes from Mercer and Hunterdon County will vote her in.....

 

Look at this trifecta for the 15th District: Shirley Turner, Bonnie Watson Coleman, and Reed Gusciora. If Trenton wasn't in this 15th District, it would be Republican again. I cannot believe that there is not enough Republicans on Mercer/Hunterdon counties to unseat these three crooks.

[Newtonian 453]

Some states still have permits to purchase... like North Carolina, Michigan, Minnesota and Nebraska....However if one has a carry permit then they can bypass the permit to purchase part.

 

 

I remember buying a rifle from a guy in the midwest a few years back. As is my custom I insisted on speaking by phone, to make sure he was not some kid or a psycho. At one point the issue of "permit to purchase" came up. He said, "what's that?"

[siderman 1,137]

I remember buying a rifle from a guy in the midwest a few years back. As is my custom I insisted on speaking by phone, to make sure he was not some kid or a psycho. At one point the issue of "permit to purchase" came up. He said, "what's that?"

when i used to visit my son down in NC i would often browse the plentiful pawn shops as they could sell firearms and just to see what i could see. Would sometimes get into conversations with the employees or a local and I would steer the talk to me being from NJ (NY-same thing lol) and spew our gun laws at them. OGAM, the lengthy PP process sometimes talking many months, how we're so proud of inventing the AWB we still live under it, etc  then after the laughs, 10 mile stares and the "thats fugn bs's" I would top it off with the bb guns. Was good entertainment for me on rainy days. 

[CMJeepster 2,777]

/\

My friends & family in PA constantly rag on me about our bullshit here.  My uncle called me recently to ask what I wanted from his collection should he die and as I started to speak, he reminded me where I live, laughed and hung up the phone...

[MrSurfboard 1]

If the P2P was ever going to go away, it would have been during the last 3 years when applications for handguns were peak and PDs were neck deep in applications. The state did help PDs a bit though. They made P2Ps able to be printed on dot matrix printers. Now that's what I call NJ progress!! 

[Bellasdaddy 31]

Took me about 4 and a half for my last round in Edison.

We now know that is because the Edison Chief is out of his town in his municipal vehicle buying $5000 bicycles during work hours.

[diamondd817 826]

We now know that is because the Edison Chief is out of his town in his municipal vehicle buying $5000 bicycles during work hours.

That is SOP.

 

I have cops that live all around me that use those municipal vehicles as their personal vehicles. It must be nice to have all your car insurance, gas, tolls, and wear & tear paid for by the taxpayer.

[Newtonian 453]

Back to the original subject: I believe the process for obtaining a FID and purchase permit will be overhauled, and a bill ready at the very first legislative session in 2018. The "challenge" will come from our legislators, who will make both processes significantly more onerous, costly, and duplicative. After pro forma debate they will deliver the bill to the democrat governor who will happily sign it. 

 

It will be a sweeping law. Look for serious training requirements for new cards and renewals. Don't be shocked if OGAM becomes OGAY. Week-plus waiting period for all guns. Not to mention a ban on internet sales of ALL firearm-related stuff. Can they make the travel laws more restrictive? I think so. Treating long guns and all ammo the same as handguns, for example; limiting the distance you can travel with a firearm (with a generous allowance ["we have deep respect for the 2nd Amendment"] for official matches and events). Maybe restrictions on how much ammo you can own, or a limit on number of handguns.

 

The degree to which they'll go will be limited only by their perverted imaginations. Take all the strange, outrageous, ridiculous gun laws from all 50 states plus DC, throw 'em together. That's what we face. Since even pro-gun guys like y'all are not in the least interested in get-out-the-vote, the scenario I just described is inevitable. 

 

The silver lining is we'll have many, many more things to complain about in these forums. That, after all, is the important thing.

[jackandjill 683]

^^^^^ "Since even pro-gun guys like y'all are not in the least interested in get-out-the-vote, the scenario I just described is inevitable."

 

 Ok, I religiously do get out the vote. We HAD republican president who could pull off Patriot Act but not a national conceal carry honoring system. We now HAVE full House and Senate control with Republicans.  We HAVE a republican (as republican as we can get) Governor for about 4 years now.  He could have had AG change "justifiable need" with a stroke of pen.  What did we get ? 

 

Let me the first to say we will get NOTHING, ZILCH, NADA in return from Republicans when it comes to 2A, specially in this nazi state. Republicans of this state are here to do MINIMAL to get by. They have no interest in taking strong action in favor of 2A.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Let me the first to say we will get NOTHING, ZILCH, NADA in return from Republicans when it comes to 2A, specially in this nazi state. Republicans of this state are here to do MINIMAL to get by. They have no interest in taking strong action in favor of 2A.

 

Trust me, they absolutely do in my district.... (24th)....

[dman2112 6]

This would assume that NJ is a Rule Of Law state. It is not so gun laws will just get worse. You will never be able to challenge the ones in the dictatorship