Anyone else find this overwhelming?

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

KoQ-

 

I went with the M&P 15T for my first AR. I knew nothing really about AR's until I started talking to some guys at work. The M&P 15T is pretty decent gun for what it is and the price. I have since added an Aimpoint Pro (thanks to HE), a VCAS sling, and a flashlight.

 

I don't think you can go wrong with this gun if you are not looking to build your own.

 

S.

[High Exposure 5,661]

Good choice SCC.

 

The S&W line (minus the Sporter) is the only non mil-spec AR I would buy and be comfortable putting through serious use. The M&P15T would be my first choice in the S&W lineup. They are quality carbines that are well made despite not meeting the TDP - which is pretty unique in the world of affordable ARs, and not something most companies can honestly say IMO.

 

Anyway, they are a great value and an excellent way to get started on the AR platform if you don't have the knowledge or desire to build your own. You can get a complete carbine now and shoot the piss out of it while you learn what you like and don't like. Then you can master your WECSOG skills as you upgrade the carbine to your "ideal" rifle. Overall it may be a little more expensive, but the experience you get from doing it this way is worth more than the extra cash you may lay out. For a first carbine I think this is ideal as the features on the carbine change to fit your needs as your skills grow.

 

After you are comfortable working on your old beat up carbine, you can then feel sure of yourself as you build a complete rifle to your exact specs.

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

How's the research/reading going?

I'm going to start on a spikes stripped lower that a friend from here generously offered to sell to me out of his stock.  I hope to meet with him this week to see his guns and pick his brain, and then the same with Vlad on Sunday.  I've also received some very informative PM's from members here.  

 

I'll put together a parts list next week and then start ordering.  Hope to have the project completed in time for Christmas. 

[Vlad G 345]

I'll bring rifles to the pistol match on sunday. 

[High Exposure 5,661]

I'll bring rifles to the pistol match on sunday.

That just seems unfair to the other competitors Vlad. It is a pistol match after all.

[Vlad G 345]

That just seems unfair to the other competitors Vlad. It is a pistol match after all.

 

Hmm .. quick where can I borrow a sig brace and does anyone make a holster for 18" barrel rifle 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Hmm .. quick where can I borrow a sig brace and does anyone make a holster for 18" barrel rifle 

Would have to be a 9mm AR too

[gleninjersey 2,139]

I'm going to start on a spikes stripped lower that a friend from here generously offered to sell to me out of his stock. I hope to meet with him this week to see his guns and pick his brain, and then the same with Vlad on Sunday. I've also received some very informative PM's from members here.

 

Congrats. You are moving along nicely.

 

I'll put together a parts list next week and then start ordering. Hope to have the project completed in time for Christmas.

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

Good choice SCC.

 

The S&W line (minus the Sporter) is the only non mil-spec AR I would buy and be comfortable putting through serious use. The M&P15T would be my first choice in the S&W lineup. They are quality carbines that are well made despite not meeting the TDP - which is pretty unique in the world of affordable ARs, and not something most companies can honestly say IMO.

 

Anyway, they are a great value and an excellent way to get started on the AR platform if you don't have the knowledge or desire to build your own. You can get a complete carbine now and shoot the piss out of it while you learn what you like and don't like. Then you can master your WECSOG skills as you upgrade the carbine to your "ideal" rifle. Overall it may be a little more expensive, but the experience you get from doing it this way is worth more than the extra cash you may lay out. For a first carbine I think this is ideal as the features on the carbine change to fit your needs as your skills grow.

 

After you are comfortable working on your old beat up carbine, you can then feel sure of yourself as you build a complete rifle to your exact specs.

 

Thanks HE. One of my co-workers recommended the M&P15T to me. He also recommended a LWRC or Noveske too as a first AR.   "um, No".  Without your expert advise (and others here) I would not have not have learned as much about getting the Aimpoint, sling, etc. For as often (or as little chance I get) to shoot my AR, I think it is okay for my needs right now. Would I like to eventually build another one? Sure. Do I have the time or skills to do it? Not right now.

 

You say carbine, but my AR is a mid-length rifle. Are we talking about the same thing? I wish I could post a picture of it in the AR photo section.....

[High Exposure 5,661]

"Carbine" as I know it has kind of an elusive definition that has changed over time. Generally, I find that most of the AR rifles with sub 18"-20" barrels and adjustable stocks are referred to as carbines.

 

Some people label them by use - shooting national match, or off a bench, or an SPR type = rifle. Shooting it in a tactical class, IDPA type match, or used for CQB or HD = carbine.

 

Technically in US terms a carbine is the smaller/shorter version of the main rifle issued to rear echelon troops or those whose primary job in combat is something other than pulling a trigger. Think US Rifle, .30 Caliber M1 (M1 Garand) and US Carbine, .30 Caliber M1 (M1 Carbine).

 

So, currently - M16 Rifle, M4 Carbine. Ergo any of the ARs modeled after the M4 Carbine (14.5" barrel, adjustable stock) are generally called carbines.

 

Most people - me included - use AR, rifle, or carbine interchangeably.

[Blacksmythe 71]

Nothing wrong with a M&P Sporter. GREAT RIFLE! Especially a first time rifle.

[Vlad G 345]

So, currently - M16 Rifle, M4 Carbine. Ergo any of the ARs modeled after the M4 Carbine (14.5" barrel, adjustable stock) are generally called carbines.

 

Most people - me included - use AR, rifle, or carbine interchangeably.

 

 

The other thing is that issue rifle have been getting shorter over the years. From 42" barreled Springfield muzzle loading rifles to the 24" inch Springfield 1903 to the 20" M-16 and now the 14.5 M4.  Along the way we always had shorter version for the cavalry (on horses or inside vehicles) and we've called those carbines but it seems that almost without fail, the next version main "rifle" was the size of the last version's "carbine" format.  At this rate, I fully expect the M4 to be replaced by one of those goofy pistol ARs

 

I think we are at the point where rifle vs carbine has become meaningless, as HE says, they are interchangeable specially in the AR/SCAR/AK/name-your-semi-auto-smallish-caliber-boom-stick world.

[High Exposure 5,661]

Nothing wrong with a M&P Sporter. GREAT RIFLE! Especially a first time rifle.

Meh.... I was underwhelmed by it, for a number of reasons.

 

The other thing is that issue rifle have been getting shorter over the years. From 42" barreled Springfield muzzle loading rifles to the 24" inch Springfield 1903 to the 20" M-16 and now the 14.5 M4. Along the way we always had shorter version for the cavalry (on horses or inside vehicles) and we've called those carbines but it seems that almost without fail, the next version main "rifle" was the size of the last version's "carbine" format. At this rate, I fully expect the M4 to be replaced by one of those goofy pistol ARs

A lot of the "shortening" has to do with the advancement of gunpowders and bullet construction and how efficient they have become. That advancement coupled with modern materials engineering allowing for stronger receivers/chambers that will allow use of powders that burn at a faster rate/higher pressure getting higher velocities in a shorter distance. We no longer needed a 42" barrel to get superior terminal performance.

 

Don't forget, the Marines primarily still issue a 20" barreled M16A4, with certain groups/jobs getting access to the M4 (even though the M4 was developed at the request of the USMC, which rejected it as a standard issue item before being adopted by the Army). With the USMC's institutional memory and "Because we have always done it that way" doctrine (granted, it does work) I don't imagine that changing any time soon.

 

Right now the 10.5" Mk18 is issued to many "special" units for specific missions. With our current ammo, I don't see SBRs taking over for the M4/M16 anytime soon. The terminal ballistics past 100 yards are just too poor. Now, if there is a switch over to a 6.8SPC or .300Blk, that may change, but I am not holding my breath.

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

"Carbine" as I know it has kind of an elusive definition that has changed over time. Generally, I find that most of the AR rifles with sub 18"-20" barrels and adjustable stocks are referred to as carbines.

 

Some people label them by use - shooting national match, or off a bench, or an SPR type = rifle. Shooting it in a tactical class, IDPA type match, or used for CQB or HD = carbine.

 

Technically in US terms a carbine is the smaller/shorter version of the main rifle issued to rear echelon troops or those whose primary job in combat is something other than pulling a trigger. Think US Rifle, .30 Caliber M1 (M1 Garand) and US Carbine, .30 Caliber M1 (M1 Carbine).

 

So, currently - M16 Rifle, M4 Carbine. Ergo any of the ARs modeled after the M4 Carbine (14.5" barrel, adjustable stock) are generally called carbines.

 

Most people - me included - use AR, rifle, or carbine interchangeably.

 

Thank you. I was told to go by carbine (short length), a mid-length gas system (i.e. my M&P15T), and then long (rifle).  

[checko 180]

Thank you. I was told to go by carbine (short length), a mid-length gas system (i.e. my M&P15T), and then long (rifle).

Are you talking about gas system or overall length?

 

You can have a 14.5" ar with a midlegth or carbine gas system for example.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

By carbine they may mean a 14.5" (W/ pinned brake) or 16" Barrel.  Rifle barrels are longer - typically 20+ inches.

 

The gas system can be Midlength or Carbine length... or if you go full rifle, rifle length.

Carbine Length Gas ports are 7" from the receiver.

Midlength gas ports are 9" from the receiver.

Rifle length gas ports are 12" from the receiver.

[n4p226r 105]

I have had most major ones. My favorite is a Noveske lower that has yet to be built on. To fulfill my OCD I bought the bullet and bought a complete BCM lower to go with my complete BCM upper to have a complete BCM rifle that is my baby.

 

Only lowers I will buy now out of some weird fixation will be

 

BCM

Colt

Noveske or DD.

 

i happen to think that you listed 4 of the better AR manufacturers out there, but with the exception of the noveske gen 2 or 3 with the flared magwell, the rest are pretty much mil-spec lowers.  if the holes are the right size and the mags drop free, there really is very little difference to them compared to a standard smith and wesson lower. 

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

Are you talking about gas system or overall length?

 

You can have a 14.5" ar with a midlegth or carbine gas system for example.

 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

 

I thought I was talking about the same thing. All can be gas or piston system, but the lengths were Carbine, Mid, and Rifle. With Rifle having the 20"+ barrels.

[Vlad G 345]

. With Rifle having the 20"+ barrels.

 

Rifle length gas systems also work just fine on 18" barrels.

[checko 180]

I thought I was talking about the same thing. All can be gas or piston system, but the lengths were Carbine, Mid, and Rifle. With Rifle having the 20"+ barrels.

Not necessarily. There are 4 gas system lengths that are independent from overall barrel length.

 

 

These are the main 3 gas sizes (intermediate is between mid and rifle length but far less common)

 

So for example you can make a mid length on anywhere from 14.5" to 20" barrel. Or a 18" carbine. Etc.

[raz-0 1,259]

You left of pistol and intermediate for gas system length.

[n4p226r 105]

Don't forget pistol length.

[checko 180]

You left of pistol and intermediate for gas system length.

Don't forget pistol length.

I was thinking nj legal. And I mentioned intermediate

 

[n4p226r 105]

Pistol length gas system is still nj legal. But that's a whole other thread

[checko 180]

Pistol length gas system is still nj legal. But that's a whole other thread

true. The gas system per se isn't illegal. I'll concede that

[Blacksmythe 71]

Meh.... I was underwhelmed by it, for a number of reasons.

 

 

 

Such as? 

[Kingsoverqueens 10]

Just some status.

 

I started my build on a spikes stripped lower and used a lower build kit from Palmetto with a standard 1 stage trigger and Magpul stock.  

 

We assembled it last night on the dining room table.

 

It was surprisingly easy and I can only imagine how much easier it might have been if I had all of the tools suggested on the Midway youtube video that we had running on the tablet to guide us.

 

I can easily see how people become consumed with these rifles.  Building the lower was fun.  

[vjf915 456]

Congratulations.  Do you have plans to build the upper, or buy a complete upper?

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Congrats.  What are you thinking about doing for the upper?  Build or buy completed one?  I've heard that you won't save much building an upper.  Of course you can build one exactly the way you want it.....if you know what you want.

 

Enjoy the rest of your build.

[vjf915 456]

.....if you know what you want.

 

This is the key.  A lot of times, you may not know what you want.  It might be a better idea to get a cheaper used upper, shoot it a little bit, and then build your own once you figure out what you want.  Afterwards you can resell that upper and get most of your money back.