Why is no one covering the NFA and 922 cases?

[bl@ckvr4 0]

The Hollis v. Holder and Watson v. Holder cases are our best chances to get the nonsensical NFA laws repealed. The attourney involved in both cases has been able to raise an astronomical amount of money from the Pro 2A community and the cases are officially moving forward and have been filed. Please pass this information along to all of your 2A friendly websites and boards, since I barely see anyone covering these developments.

 

I don't post here often, but this information is too important to not convey.

 

More info on the cases:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1681489_NFA_Lawsuits__Hollis_v__Holder__Watson_v__Holder___2nd_Case_filed_11_14_2014_.html&page=1

 

Here's a link to the donation and info page:

http://www.gofundme.com/fmxlnk

 

Just imagine how great it would be to buy a can or an FA without a tax stamp and a 9 month wait. And SBRs. And maybe even post 86 FAs????

[Vlad G 345]

I don't think it is going to happen. If you read the SCOTUS decisions, they were not very enthused by the notion. 

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Well, first off, thanks for posting that.  I'm fairly well-informed about 2A issues, and this is the first I'm hearing of it.

 

As a practical matter, you're not going to find much support from this board, as our NJ state government has decided that all that stuff is too dangerous for any of us to own, tax stamp or not.

[ogfarmer 138]

I seen quite a bit of coverage on various FB pages

[Midwest 28]

 

Please pass this information along to all of your 2A friendly websites and boards, since I barely see anyone covering these developments.

 

 

Truth about Guns is covering it at

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/10/foghorn/breaking-lawsuit-filed-allow-registration-new-machine-guns/

 

THR (The High Road) is covering it at

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=765064

 

"NFA Lawsuit filed"

[siderman 1,136]

NFA? hell, we cant even crawl out from under our own AWB. Or OGAM. Or the ridiculous FPID/PP process. Or travel restrictions Or politicians relentlously making up new gun laws...... 

EDIT: oh yea! lets not forget our bb gun restiction in NJ !! haha! NFA?...wtf is that?!

[bl@ckvr4 0]

It's good to see that the info is getting around. I understand that NJ residents won't really see a difference regardless of what comes of the lawsuits. But those of us who will be uprooting and moving to greener, and more 2A friendly, pastures have a great interest in the outcome.

 

Besides, I consider any Pro 2A outcome to be a victory, even if it doesn't apply to me directly. Like the recent event in CA, for instance.

[henrym 19]

Because you are not going to fully repeal the NFA. Best case scenario, they will strike down the tax stamp fee and maybe, just maybe the '86 rule on mgs. None of this will have any effect on us because NJ still has statutes that prohibit those items. Just like the repeal of the Federal AWB and ours still standing.

[carl_g 568]

I hope it goes through. It would be great for the prices of suppressors.. they are a ton of money now.

[Midwest 28]

Suppressors are very popular, they are legal in 38 states and most allow them to be used for hunting. Taking them out of the NFA would be a no brainer. They should not have been in the NFA in the first place, they aren't even a firearm. Supposedly the reason why they are on the NFA list is because there were concerns with 'poaching' during the depression. Poaching issues could have been better addressed with state game wardens, not the Federal Government.

 

http://americansuppressorassociation.com/education/

 

[The_Matrix 105]

would love a suppressor when firing a rifle.  The ear muffs get in the way.

[magnawing 5]

I'd love it if people were allowed to use suppressors to save my ears at the range and I wouldn't have to stop shooting when they shoot because of the concussion from a 5.56.

 

 

This signature is AWESOME!!!

[bl@ckvr4 0]

Being an NJ resident, I have no experience with NFA items, but is it true that NFA items are not permitted in self defence situations? I figured using a suppressor as ear pro in the home would be a no brainer.

[Midwest 28]

Being an NJ resident, I have no experience with NFA items, but is it true that NFA items are not permitted in self defence situations? I figured using a suppressor as ear pro in the home would be a no brainer.

Using a NFA weapon in a self defense situation could mean that the police could impound it (as any other type of weapon) during the course of their investigation. After the investigation is over, and your claim to self defense is justified... they are supposed to give it back. The question is, would you want your $20,000 machine gun impounded by the police? Or a $700 suppressor along with your $500 Glock?

 

Perhaps a $250 .38 special revolver might be better suited for self defense with the knowledge that it could be taken by the police in the course of a police investigation.

[n4p226r 105]

Using a NFA weapon in a self defense situation could mean that the police could impound it (as any other type of weapon) during the course of their investigation. After the investigation is over, and your claim to self defense is justified... they are supposed to give it back. The question is, would you want your $20,000 machine gun impounded by the police? Or a $700 suppressor along with your $500 Glock?

 

Perhaps a $250 .38 special revolver might be better suited for self defense with the knowledge that it could be taken by the police in the course of a police investigation.

I never understood that way of thinking. I want the best tools for the job. If my situation dictates that's an NFA item so be it. I can replace a rifle handgun or silencer. Can't replace my wife and kids

[Vlad G 345]

Can't replace my wife and kids

 

Well you can but it is probably not something you want to do.

 

I'm of the middle of the road mindset here. I want a reliable, functional firearm that I have no attachments to in the role of the "grab this first" gun.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot 358]

I think a legal shoot is a legal shoot.  But, it might look better in front of a judge and jury if it's done with a plain vanilla Glock 19 versus a water-cooled, tripod-mounted M1917.

 

I wish these guys all the best, but the laws that underpin NFA and federal gun regs in general (1934 NFA, 1968 GCA, 1986 FOPA, and the GHWB-Clinton EO's that followed) are so deeply rooted, it's practically settled law.

[raz-0 1,259]

There has been one sd use of an nfa machine gun. The guy isn't in jail. It was an interesting story, I'll see if I can dig it up.

[raz-0 1,259]

Found a copy of it. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=198964

[vladtepes 1,060]

I never understood that way of thinking. I want the best tools for the job. If my situation dictates that's an NFA item so be it. I can replace a rifle handgun or silencer. Can't replace my wife and kids

 

 

for me.. the situation is at self defense range, a thrown together $600 AR is not going to work any less efficiently than a top shelf $2000 build.. that is why I am building a cheap AR pistol at some point on the spare lower I have.. if it ends up in a police evidence locker somewhere it can sit and rot as far as I am concerned..

[mipafox 438]

 

Well, first off, thanks for posting that.  I'm fairly well-informed about 2A issues, and this is the first I'm hearing of it.

 

As a practical matter, you're not going to find much support from this board, as our NJ state government has decided that all that stuff is too dangerous for any of us to own, tax stamp or not.

 

 

You would never had put the words "concealed" and "carry" together in the same sentence if it wasn't for the fact that it's normal in the rest of the country.

 

Your only hope for any relief from gun laws come from outside Jersey. Including relief from the courts, which have established consideration for the national norm as precedent in their cowardice of reading words off of a piece of paper. Anybody holding their breath waiting for NJ to pass good firearm legislation unmolested is going to be miserable for the foreseeable future.

[Blacksmythe 71]

for me.. the situation is at self defense range, a thrown together $600 AR is not going to work any less efficiently than a top shelf $2000 build.. that is why I am building a cheap AR pistol at some point on the spare lower I have.. if it ends up in a police evidence locker somewhere it can sit and rot as far as I am concerned

My thinking as well. 

[carl_g 568]

for me.. the situation is at self defense range, a thrown together $600 AR is not going to work any less efficiently than a top shelf $2000 build.. that is why I am building a cheap AR pistol at some point on the spare lower I have.. if it ends up in a police evidence locker somewhere it can sit and rot as far as I am concerned..

Just starting to build one.

[mipafox 438]

 

There has been one sd use of an nfa machine gun. The guy isn't in jail. It was an interesting story, I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

 

I know of a few and I'm sure there are way more than that. The most common stories are the HK employee and the guy who lived next door to his frequently robbed gun shop.

 

If I'm ever in the horrible position of facing people breaking into my home it will probably look and sound like the 4th of July. I'll be taking up a collection for Home Depot gift cards.

[bl@ckvr4 0]

Here's a update for those folks that haven't been following this.  The funding campaign for this was so successful, that the Heller Foundation is now on board.

 

https://hellerfoundation.org/hvh/

 

My fingers are crossed so hard they might snap in two.  A reopening of the MG registry would be so awesome, I could cry.  I'm dreaming of a select fire PS90 with a form 1.

[Carcano 14]

Well, first off, thanks for posting that.  I'm fairly well-informed about 2A issues, and this is the first I'm hearing of it.

 

As a practical matter, you're not going to find much support from this board, as our NJ state government has decided that all that stuff is too dangerous for any of us to own, tax stamp or not.

 

Not true, Machine Guns are legal to own in NJ.

 

Now getting permission to own them is the hard part, not impossible but long and expensive...

[Carcano 14]

Here's a update for those folks that haven't been following this.  The funding campaign for this was so successful, that the Heller Foundation is now on board.

 

https://hellerfoundation.org/hvh/

 

My fingers are crossed so hard they might snap in two.  A reopening of the MG registry would be so awesome, I could cry.  I'm dreaming of a select fire PS90 with a form 1.

 

The problem is too many pre-86 owners want the registry to remain closed, the same people who supposedly believe in the second amendment want machine guns to remain restricted to pre-86 transferable so the guns they own will continue to go up in value.

 

If you want a solid investment, machine guns are a poor choice and if someones looses over $100K in "investments" they should suck it up and remember "all investments carry risks".

 

I too want the '86 ban lifted, allow us to do Form 1 builds with the stamp and be done with it.

[bl@ckvr4 0]

You are right. There are folks that want the registry to stay closed. However, they are a very small group. I'd say the about 40% of all pre-86 MG owners want the registry to stay closed. I'd say if you combine the folks that own MGs that do want the registry to reopen with the folks that want to own MGs at a reasonable price, I think you have a very vocal majority of folks.

[mipafox 438]

The problem is too many pre-86 owners want the registry to remain closed, the same people who supposedly believe in the second amendment want machine guns to remain restricted to pre-86 transferable so the guns they own will continue to go up in value.

 

Complete myth. Go ask a few. Go ask a few tens of thousands.

 

BTW, as far as MGs go, government is authorized a second amnesty period under the 1968 GCA. No new law is required. Arguably, they can even complete the unused time from the first amnesty.

 

I'd be pretty damn happy to have 30 days to drill every AR-15 I have and scarf up as many parts kits on the market before they are sold out. I'm sure I could work day and night to find some reliable conversion schemes for new guns. Heck, that would probably be a collaborative effort with distributed designs. And, of course, my hillbilly minigun.

 

And, on the 32nd day, we rested.

[Carcano 14]

Complete myth. Go ask a few. Go ask a few tens of thousands.

 

BTW, as far as MGs go, government is authorized a second amnesty period under the 1968 GCA. No new law is required. Arguably, they can even complete the unused time from the first amnesty.

 

I'd be pretty damn happy to have 30 days to drill every AR-15 I have and scarf up as many parts kits on the market before they are sold out. I'm sure I could work day and night to find some reliable conversion schemes for new guns. Heck, that would probably be a collaborative effort with distributed designs. And, of course, my hillbilly minigun.

 

And, on the 32nd day, we rested.

 

It's not a complete myth, many "investors" feel the registry should remain closed. Why? again, value will drop overnight and they will loose a small fortune. Sure plenty of MG owners would be happy to see it open again but you have guys with a lot of money tied up in "investment" MG's and they fear this.

 

Yes, GCA allows another amnesty period but nobody within the Federal Govt. is pushing for it.

 

You wouldn't even need to complete the work on the receivers, you could buy 50 AR lowers and submit a Form 1 for each lower...10 years down the road you could complete the work, much like the registered Uzi bolts that are still being used on new builds (ie Vector Arms) and the registered dewats being activated years later...

 

BATFE issued a stamp for a Form 1 build since a trust was used, now BATFE is screaming that trusts are considered individuals...