Budget AR

[Junior 14]

Money to burn and cant figure out what to buy. One day I want a Remington Bolt Action, next day i want an AR...

 

While looking into AR's I went into a bunch of shops and was able to handle some "budget" AR's. Best price is obviously the S&W MP-15 Sport but for a few hundred more you can get a Stag,  or for a few hundred more you can get a Windham Weaponry or FNH. I understand that building one yourself is probably cheaper and more satisfying, but i kind of want one to just shoot for now and then i'll decide if i want to go down the build route. 

 

Most of what i looked at didn't have a rail system, just the plastic hand guard and basic M4 stock. I'll most likely keep it stock for a while so having said that is it worth it spending the extra money on the Stag, Windham or FNH? I also saw a Colt Target Model for under $900 (Stag Money). Is the colt worth it over the other brands? Again, Basic stock and plastic handguards...

 

 

 

 

[TheMan 45]

Check out the vendors in the forum and tell them what your looking for and your budget. They will take care of you.

[Lalo 13]

What is your budget?

 

COLT LE6920 AR15 M4 CARBINE - http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/colt-6920-m-4-detail.html?Itemid=0

[Junior 14]

$1000 max

 

the Colt I saw at an NJ shop was pretty much the same but without the break.

[High Exposure 5,661]

Colt is a much better choice than Stag, Windham, Olympic Arms, Bushmaster, Rock River.

 

S&W is great value, but I would spend a little extra and upgrade from the Sport.

 

Between the S&W and Colt, I would take a Colt.

[Vlad G 345]

Pretty much everyone makes a sub $1000 AR nowadays

[PK90 3,570]

You can almost get an AR and an AK for $1K.

[n4p226r 105]

Colt is a much better choice than Stag, Windham, Olympic Arms, Bushmaster, Rock River.

 

S&W is great value, but I would spend a little extra and upgrade from the Sport.

 

Between the S&W and Colt, I would take a Colt.

pretty much this.  a colt 6920 with compliance work for $1k

 

you may even be able to build a lower and get a bcm upper for right around $1k

[JT Custom Guns 956]

Call me - I have several Colt AR's in stock + Windhams, Bear creek, ect.

[Barms 98]

You say you will keep it stock for a while. But so you have a preference about the hand guard or the front sight ?

 

If you think you will most Defintely change those at some point then think hard about your purchase.

 

I never liked the standard front sight, so that changed eveetyimg about my first purchase.

[wink-_-wink 1]

If you want to build your own there are cheap kits out there... Palmetto State Armory always has rifle kits.  But you say budget yet then again you say $1000.  For $1,000 you can get nearly any AR you want plus optics... Figure out what you want, what you like and dont settle.  ARs are like legos, you can piece them together all you want!  If your budget is $1,000, get whatever you want rifle wise, then add all the furniture with the remaining 4-500.  Anything beyond that you will piece together as you go anyway.

[iamkurrupt 0]

Get an LWRC and call it a day. 

[jermz1987 243]

I own a Windham and its an awesome rifle for the money. I enjoy shooting it and it has not given me any issues. Just my opinion.

[Vlad G 345]

I will say that the last Colt I handled was very uninspiring. Admittedly is was very dry which never makes an AR feel smooth, but it all around felt like Colt didn't much care what went into a "civilian" gun. The finish was kinda meh and the trigger was like 11lb of some such.  It worked, but making a non-working AR is not that common these days. Mind you, it was a sample of 1, but it didn't impress at all.

[Junior 14]

I didn't think $1000 was that much to be honest. Been putting money into my firearms budget for a while and I was going to put the $1000 into the bolt gun. But after the Gun, bipod and decent scope I'm a little over the $1k mark and limited to where I can really shoot it. Looking into AR's now I've been into most shops in north jersey handling them, dry firing, and asking questions. Everyone has their own opinion on which is "best" for the money but it changes from store to store. Some guns the finish look nicer, others are cheaper but don't come with dust covers or forward assists.

 

Anyway Vlad had a good point about the Colt. The grip and stock had dry almost white patches and everything including the hand guard seemed like it had excess oil all over it. I dismissed it as being normal though.

 

The main reason I dismissed building my own is I have no idea what I truly want or need. I rather buy a complete gun and take it to the range and shoot the hell out of it and then determine at that point what more I want to do it with it and figure out how to go about it. Not to mention also that with a complete gun I won't mind taking it classes on how to use it..

 

One other important factor I forgot to mention is resale value. Will the parts individually or even the complete gun be worth more if it was Colt as opposed to Stag.

 

 

[n4p226r 105]

I will say that the last Colt I handled was very uninspiring. Admittedly is was very dry which never makes an AR feel smooth, but it all around felt like Colt didn't much care what went into a "civilian" gun. The finish was kinda meh and the trigger was like 11lb of some such. It worked, but making a non-working AR is not that common these days. Mind you, it was a sample of 1, but it didn't impress at all.

To me the colt just seems to be the entry point where everything functionally is correct, the materials are correct, and the assembly is correct for a standard "working" AR. I know you are into 3 gun and understand that may have totally different sets of requirements for what you want or need differently than what the colt offers. The colts biggest downfall is being over gassed from the carbine gas port in a 16" barrel. I think most other companies in that sub $1k in some ways cut corners that colt doesnt because most people don't care about the assembly and testing of the bolt carrier group. Staked castle nuts. Barrel steel. And things like that. and that's fine. I'll never run my guns hard enough for any of that to matter and most here won't either. But I like having it.

[wink-_-wink 1]

The main reason I dismissed building my own is I have no idea what I truly want or need.

 

You can buy a completed upper and a completed lower and still be about $4-600 and that is all you need.  The rest of the money could be for furniture.  You could get a stripped lower for REALLY cheap, a lower parts kit but if you do not want to actually assemble the inner workings then get the completed lower. 

 

As for resalw value, it depends more on the type rather than the name.  Sure Colt/Bush/Stag may sell high but you are paying for the name IMO.  Spikes/M&P/ hell even Anderson are all just as good lowers as colt bush or stag, the difference is the roll mark. 

[n4p226r 105]

Colt parts will always carry a premium. You couldn't assemble colt parts for anywhere near what you can get them in a complete gun. Stripped lowers alone go for more than almost any other companies forged mil spec lowers

[Vlad G 345]

Colt parts will always carry a premium. You couldn't assemble colt parts for anywhere near what you can get them in a complete gun. Stripped lowers alone go for more than almost any other companies forged mil spec lowers

 

 

And personally I think that is because people are willing to pay it, not because they are better.  

 

Heck BCM, DD, and the like which are everyone's favorite tactical darlings sell high quality parts (that mostly they don't make) at far more reasonable prices. I do think there is a certain "Colt makes military guns" thing going around with the notion that it makes them better. Lets not forget that usually the US government goes with the lowest bidder not the best gear.

 

What I'm saying is that Colt stuff certainly works, I just don't think it deserves that money the want.

[carl_g 568]

I know that AIM has issues shipping stuff to NJ..and I see this is out of stock ATM ..but this is a good example of a solid rifle that is lower than your price point of 1k. Look around and you can find a lot of great deals from reputable companies.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1STR5035MLS&name=Spikes+Tactical+5.56%2f.223+16%22+Midlength+Rifle+(No+Magazine)&groupid=11

[mipafox 438]

Plenty of M4 style Colts for $860-$880 shipped on slickguns

 

http://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/6920?solrsort=fs_price%20asc&op=&title_only=0&hide_oos=0&categories_filter=3

 

I assume you have to pay extra on most to pin the comp. In PA I won't pay a transfer fee or PICS (NICS) from dealer's stock, and most dealers don't charge them. It seems they charge the same in Jersey (?) so that might not be an issue.

 

Here is a Colt pencil barrel for $799 shipped:

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/daily-deals/colt-ar-15-5-56nato-16-carbine-pencil-barrel.html

 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

i thought there was something wonky with colt's bolt carriers?

[n4p226r 105]

i thought there was something wonky with colt's bolt carriers?

Only on older guns with the sear block during the assault weapons ban. Current ones are just about as best as you can get a milspec phosphate chrome lined bolt

[n4p226r 105]

And personally I think that is because people are willing to pay it, not because they are better.

 

Heck BCM, DD, and the like which are everyone's favorite tactical darlings sell high quality parts (that mostly they don't make) at far more reasonable prices. I do think there is a certain "Colt makes military guns" thing going around with the notion that it makes them better. Lets not forget that usually the US government goes with the lowest bidder not the best gear.

 

What I'm saying is that Colt stuff certainly works, I just don't think it deserves that money the want.

There certainly is a lot of the "colt makes military guns " in the same was people love the p226 because the SEALs use them or the 92fs is the best because they are what the army picked. The value of a colt is that they own the TDP of what makes the standard minimum for an AR. Most sub $1k don't meet the TDP. Some improve on it.

 

I do think that paying a premium to build your own on colt receivers is paying for the money.

[Vlad G 345]

I think the TDP thing is a red herring.  Its like saying only McDonalds can make the secret sauce for a Big Mac.  True as far as it goes but lets face it the spec is in the open. Plenty of people make excellent burgers, many people make far better burgers then McD.   To my mind there is no value remaining to owning the TDP except for royalties to Colt. 

 

The other problem is the the spec itself is kinda crap nowadays. It defines some ranges but really the what the milspec says is "Rifle can be no worse then X". In the sub $1000 category there are a heck of a lot of rifles better then X now.

 

But, if it pleases someone to know they bought something no worse then X, that's fine, assuming that what Colt sells to the open market actually meets those specs. I'm pretty sure they only guarantee that to government, not you and I. 

[mipafox 438]

 

I think the TDP thing is a red herring.  Its like saying only McDonalds can make the secret sauce for a Big Mac.  True as far as it goes but lets face it the spec is in the open. Plenty of people make excellent burgers, many people make far better burgers then McD.   To my mind there is no value remaining to owning the TDP except for royalties to Colt. 

 

The other problem is the the spec itself is kinda crap nowadays. It defines some ranges but really the what the milspec says is "Rifle can be no worse then X". In the sub $1000 category there are a heck of a lot of rifles better then X now.

 

But, if it pleases someone to know they bought something no worse then X, that's fine, assuming that what Colt sells to the open market actually meets those specs. I'm pretty sure they only guarantee that to government, not you and I. 

 

 

The technical data package and the specifications are two different things.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

 what;s your guys opinions on dpms, dd, and lwrc?

[n4p226r 105]

I think the TDP thing is a red herring.  Its like saying only McDonalds can make the secret sauce for a Big Mac.  True as far as it goes but lets face it the spec is in the open. Plenty of people make excellent burgers, many people make far better burgers then McD.   To my mind there is no value remaining to owning the TDP except for royalties to Colt. 

 

The other problem is the the spec itself is kinda crap nowadays. It defines some ranges but really the what the milspec says is "Rifle can be no worse then X". In the sub $1000 category there are a heck of a lot of rifles better then X now.

 

But, if it pleases someone to know they bought something no worse then X, that's fine, assuming that what Colt sells to the open market actually meets those specs. I'm pretty sure they only guarantee that to government, not you and I. 

who in the sub $1k category (besides colt) makes a rifle that meets or exceeds the TDP (excluding things like using a mid length gas system instead of a carbine length gas system)?  I'm not even a huge colt fanboy.  i think they make decent product, but i don't own any.  

 

the only value to owning the TDP is that if you want to make a rifle for the military, you HAVE to give Colt a cut, and you can't use any of that info to make rifles for the civilian market.  thats why the new FN rifles aren't as good as they should be, because they can't legally use the TDP info. there is no value to civilian manufacturers to know the TDP unless they decide to exceed it.  

[n4p226r 105]

 what;s your guys opinions on dpms, dd, and lwrc?

you are picking 3 hugely different rifles here.  DPMS is budget stuff. Daniel Defense is near the high end, especially if you like their rail offerings, and lwrc is generally piston ARs which I personally avoid.  out of the 3 i'd choose the daniel defense.  

[High Exposure 5,661]

  

 

The technical data package and the specifications are two different things.

This^^

 

The TDP doesn't just specify dimensions and tolerances, it also specifies manufacturing processes, testing protocols and materials used.

 

While the TDP is certainly not the end all be all of the AR world, companies that meet or exceed the TDP certainly produce more reliable product/parts than companies that skimp or take shortcuts in my experience.

 

For a long time Colt was all there was in the quality AR market. Now with Noveske, Knights, LMT, BCM, Daniel Defense and a few others there are many more quality options to choose from that meet or surpass the TDP.

 

what;s your guys opinions on dpms, dd, and lwrc?

DD makes a great product. A little expensive and I have seen a few of their by carriers shit the bed, but on the whole, they are quality.

 

LWRC also makes a good product from what I have seen. I have taken a few classes with shooters running them and have met their head Armorer. Quality product, no corners cut - but still

have piston issues, I have seen a few disintegrate on the line.

 

LWRC and HK are the only companies I would buy from if I was in the market for a piston gun.... Which I'm not - just so we are clear

 

DPMS I avoid at all costs. Allegedly the .308 rifles are GTG but I have no experience with them.