NJ Gun laws work as intended

[Carcano 14]

Sorry, I disagree. The "transaction" must meet both states regulations. There is no mention of the "item" being legal in the receiver's state. I will gladly sell a non-compliant rifle to anyone. We can even do the COE if you insist.

 

This is what I thought, if I buy a non-NJ compliant firearm from a PA FFL and keep it out of NJ how would NJSP know? the COE for long guns isn't sent to NJSP so they would never know if it was compliant or not.

 

I know I can buy the deadly M1 carbine from a dealer in PA (actually a few dealers) and even have a COE for it.

[Newtonian 453]

The "quote" is mostly correct:

 

2C:39-5c: Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

 

However, let's not forget about the exemptions in 2C:39-6.

 

Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

 

So if you are operating OUTSIDE that exemption, you need an FID.   Otherwise, you're good.

Sorry those two sections are contradictory. Totally contradictory. Purposefully contradictory?

[Newtonian 453]

This entire thread, including my posts, is sickening.

[mark_anthony_78 0]

Sorry those two sections are contradictory. Totally contradictory. Purposefully contradictory?

 

No, they are complementary...

 

2c:39-5 just means that if you are "out and about" with a rifle/shotgun, you MUST have an FID card or you're in big trouble.  That's the "high level" situation.

 

The EXCEPTION is that if you are at home/business, or in between specifically exempted locations, an FID card is not needed.

[Newtonian 453]

No, they are complementary...

 

2c:39-5 just means that if you are "out and about" with a rifle/shotgun, you MUST have an FID card or you're in big trouble.  That's the "high level" situation.

 

The EXCEPTION is that if you are at home/business, or in between specifically exempted locations, an FID card is not needed.

Maybe I'm thick but it is not clear to me. It's already illegal to walk around with a loaded rifle or shotgun if you're not a licensed hunter in season, FID or not. If you are you don't need an FID -- personal experience from years back.  

[mark_anthony_78 0]

"It's already illegal to walk around with a loaded rifle or shotgun if you're not a licensed hunter in season,"

 

 

That's the other requirement in that particular exception (subsection g).  The firearm has to be unloaded/cased/locked away properly, even between the exempted locations.

 

If you have a loaded firearm you're in trouble no matter what.

 

Technically, if you have an FID you can keep an unloaded/cased long gun in your trunk (no hollow point ammo) all the time.   Want to be the test case, though?

[DeerSlayer 241]

"It's already illegal to walk around with a loaded rifle or shotgun if you're not a licensed hunter in season,"

 

 

That's the other requirement in that particular exception (subsection g). The firearm has to be unloaded/cased/locked away properly, even between the exempted locations.

 

If you have a loaded firearm you're in trouble no matter what.

 

Technically, if you have an FID you can keep an unloaded/cased long gun in your trunk (no hollow point ammo) all the time. Want to be the test case, though?

[millsan1 3]

After all of this, I still am not convinced I am wrong.  To anyone who is absolutely sure I am, then take the challenge.

 

Have someone you love and care about, who does not have an FID, go to PA, buy a pellet gun, bring it back to NJ and call the local police and tell them what transpired.  I am a betting man, and will bet that this ends with an arrest.  The transaction is legal in PA, legal on the federal level, but I still have not seen how it is not illegal on the NJ level.

Do I think it stupid?  Yes.

Do I like it?  No.

Should it change? Yes.

 

Did I move out of NJ because of dumb shit like this?  Yes.

 

Will I offer my assistance to help my fellow NJ gun owners to get some kind of normalcy?  Absolutely.

[PK90 3,570]

Explain how NJ laws are enforced in PA.

[Carcano 14]

Explain how NJ laws are enforced in PA.

 

They are not enforced in PA, NJ has no say in it.

[Carcano 14]

After all of this, I still am not convinced I am wrong.  To anyone who is absolutely sure I am, then take the challenge.

 

Have someone you love and care about, who does not have an FID, go to PA, buy a pellet gun, bring it back to NJ and call the local police and tell them what transpired.  I am a betting man, and will bet that this ends with an arrest.  The transaction is legal in PA, legal on the federal level, but I still have not seen how it is not illegal on the NJ level.

 

Do I think it stupid?  Yes.

Do I like it?  No.

Should it change? Yes.

 

Did I move out of NJ because of dumb shit like this?  Yes.

 

Will I offer my assistance to help my fellow NJ gun owners to get some kind of normalcy?  Absolutely.

 

That's fine and dandy but who would be stupid enough to call the local or State Police and brag about bringing a pellet gun over state lines to begin with?

 

The less they know the better

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

After all of this, I still am not convinced I am wrong.  To anyone who is absolutely sure I am, then take the challenge.

 

Have someone you love and care about, who does not have an FID, go to PA, buy a pellet gun, bring it back to NJ and call the local police and tell them what transpired.  I am a betting man, and will bet that this ends with an arrest.  The transaction is legal in PA, legal on the federal level, but I still have not seen how it is not illegal on the NJ level.

 

Do I think it stupid?  Yes.

Do I like it?  No.

Should it change? Yes.

 

Did I move out of NJ because of dumb shit like this?  Yes.

 

Will I offer my assistance to help my fellow NJ gun owners to get some kind of normalcy?  Absolutely.

 

This is clearly a stupid challenge.

 

Many of us have tried to educate you but you refuse to learn. I don't see anything further that can be done to help you.

 

Please do everybody else a favor, though, and don't share your confused view of the NJ firearms laws - you are making things worse.

[mark_anthony_78 0]

New Jersey has absolutely ZERO legal standing on the *transaction* that occurs in Pennsylvania, because the only law that requires both state's purchasing requirements to be fulfilled is a Federal statute related to firearms - as defined Federally (i.e. not BB guns).

 

New Jersey only has legal authority over the *possession* of the item (that NJ considers a firearm) when you return to this state.   Possession does NOT require an FID if you keep the firearm at your residence (or transport from the place of purchase back to your residence).

[Carcano 14]

New Jersey has absolutely ZERO legal standing on the *transaction* that occurs in Pennsylvania, because the only law that requires both state's purchasing requirements to be fulfilled is a Federal statute related to firearms - as defined Federally (i.e. not BB guns).

 

New Jersey only has legal authority over the *possession* of the item (that NJ considers a firearm) when you return to this state.   Possession does NOT require an FID if you keep the firearm at your residence (or transport from the place of purchase back to your residence).

 

NJSP cannot prove the BB or pellet gun was purchased out of State and since possession is legal in NJ and no FPID is required to possess a firearm nothing to worry about.

[mark_anthony_78 0]

NJSP cannot prove the BB or pellet gun was purchased out of State and since possession is legal in NJ and no FPID is required to possess a firearm nothing to worry about.

 

Agreed.  Just trying to say it clearly for others.  

 

We all agree our laws can be confusing, but taking one snippet (out of several pages of law) out of context and without regard to the exemptions doesn't do anybody any favors.

 

The OP's friend should buy the pellet gun he wants, not worry about being a felon (he won't be), but should still get an FID card and join the fight for more rights in NJ.  That way he could also legally take the pellet gun to a friend's house (which would be illegal without the FID) or a shooting range.

[Blacksmythe 71]

Our own worst enemy as usual.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Our own worst enemy as usual.

How true.

[mipafox 438]

FID requirement for BB guns has kept New Jersey safe for a very long time. I'm pretty sure I only saw one kid with an eye patch and one other with a glass eye my entire K-12 experience.

 

My buddy's dad actually bought him a couple via mail order in the early 1980s. The company in the back of some kid's magazine asked him to provide a photocopy (not as common back then) of either his FID or his used up pistol permit before they would ship the horrible weapons to NJ.

 

I know that's not the same as buying out of state, and there were probably horrible crimes committed in these transactions, but I find it amusing that a magazine toy and knife company would have thought to ask for an FID prior to shipping a BB gun to NJ over 30 years ago.

 

If it aint broke, add more restrictions.

[Newtonian 453]

You have to wonder how people concoct these desperately ridiculous infatuations, how they adopt these phantasmagoric myths and then act on them, and impose them on others.

 

My family was 100% anti-gun the whole time I was growing up. But even they, whose ancestors dropped out of Italian olive trees less than thirty years earlier, realized that BB guns were toys. Capable of hurt, like pencils, but toys nonetheless. My grandmother's next door neighbor's kid, Duane, had a BB gun. So did the Ricky Della Rotta on the other side of the Williams' property. Shooting BBs, catching frogs, killing/mounting large insects, and torturing shit flies is all we did from the late 50s until the mid-60s. 

 

I feel that I deserve credit for the fact that there are only 1,000 Katillion shit flies left in the world.

 

Somehow, with no instruction, no training, and no yelling, I knew it was wrong to aim a bb gun at my sister's fat ass. Much less her eye. Not that it wouldn't have helped. Her ass I mean. It's still huge. Just sayin'.

[millsan1 3]

Explain how NJ laws are enforced in PA.

They are not, and I never said they were.  In the post you replied to, and my assertion all along is that it is legal to buy, legal to own, but when you cross the border with it into NJ, NJ law comes into play and there is the problem.

 

Given how clearly written all the NJ laws are, we are at an impasse. 

[Carcano 14]

They are not, and I never said they were.  In the post you replied to, and my assertion all along is that it is legal to buy, legal to own, but when you cross the border with it into NJ, NJ law comes into play and there is the problem.

 

Given how clearly written all the NJ laws are, we are at an impasse. 

 

Once the BB or pellet gun is in NJ how on earth would NJSP know it was purchased in PA? how would they know the BB or pellet gun is even in someones possession?

 

Is NJSP equipped with a BB gun detector that is specially calibrated and in every car protecting the Mother Land? 

 

The OP's friend should buy it, put it in the car (out of sight) and keep his mouth shut. If NJSP FIU and TEAMS shows up to raid him for the BB gun trafficking call Nappen .

[Pythagoras 2]

Smh

[fslater 62]

Look at it this way. If you live in Any State (except NJ) USA and own a non-NJ banned long gun or hand gun (15 or less Rd mags) for that matter, along your deadly HP ammo, and are not banned by federal law from possessing a firearm, then move to NJ taking said firearms directly to your new place of residence. No NJ law has been violated. Buying a BB/Pellet gun or HP's or any other non-NJ Banned (no FFL required) firearm item when you are a NJ resident but in another state falls under the same laws. Bottom line is you need a FID you buy some non-FFL stuff in NJ. Owning and keeping these same items in your home or on your property is more or less unregulated as long as the items them selves are NJ legal.

Case in point. When I moved to NJ and my FID was (finally) ready to be picked up at my local cop shop, the LEO that handles the process asked me if I owned any guns I brought with me from IL. I told him I owned hand and long guns I brought with me. He told me registering those firearms in NJ was encouraged By the PD/state but not mandatory. No NJ statutes had been violated by my owning and keeping them in my NJ home before I got my FID.

On a side note, some of the topics brought up in this thread I have a running disagreement with my cousin about. As far as I read NJ law (I wouldn't actually try this to see if it works but) if your on your own property outside front lawn for instance  urban, suburban, rural doesn't matter, and you have a handgun in your right hand and a NJ-legal AR in your left, your not in violation of any NJ firearm statute?

I am not a lawyer and advise you to consult one before taking anything I wrote as OK. But if you do find yourself in court on any firearm related issue please feel free to contact me and for $400 an Hr I would be happy to go to court with you and give the judge my opinion. Maybe pending the out come we could request neighboring cells  

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

Look at it this way. If you live in Any State (except NJ) USA and own a non-NJ banned long gun or hand gun (15 or less Rd mags) for that matter, along your deadly HP ammo, and are not banned by federal law from possessing a firearm, then move to NJ taking said firearms directly to your new place of residence. No NJ law has been violated. Buying a BB/Pellet gun or HP's or any other non-NJ Banned (no FFL required) firearm item when you are a NJ resident but in another state falls under the same laws. Bottom line is you need a FID you buy some non-FFL stuff in NJ. Owning and keeping these same items in your home or on your property is more or less unregulated as long as the items them selves are NJ legal.

Case in point. When I moved to NJ and my FID was (finally) ready to be picked up at my local cop shop, the LEO that handles the process asked me if I owned any guns I brought with me from IL. I told him I owned hand and long guns I brought with me. He told me registering those firearms in NJ was encouraged By the PD/state but not mandatory. No NJ statutes had been violated by my owning and keeping them in my NJ home before I got my FID.

On a side note, some of the topics brought up in this thread I have a running disagreement with my cousin about. As far as I read NJ law (I wouldn't actually try this to see if it works but) if your on your own property outside front lawn for instance  urban, suburban, rural doesn't matter, and you have a handgun in your right hand and a NJ-legal AR in your left, your not in violation of any NJ firearm statute?

I am not a lawyer and advise you to consult one before taking anything I wrote as OK. But if you do find yourself in court on any firearm related issue please feel free to contact me and for $400 an Hr I would be happy to go to court with you and give the judge my opinion. Maybe pending the out come we could request neighboring cells

That's correct, and I do it all the time........but I also target shoot on my property. When the cops occasionally show up, they ask if I'm target shooting, I tell them yes, and they say: "OK, have a nice day" and leave - I live in a very non NJ like part of NJ. In more developed areas of the state the reaction will be different, but you're not breaking any laws.

[Carcano 14]

That's correct, and I do it all the time........but I also target shoot on my property. When the cops occasionally show up, they ask if I'm target shooting, I tell them yes, and they say: "OK, have a nice day" and leave - I live in a very non NJ like part of NJ. In more developed areas of the state the reaction will be different, but you're not breaking any laws.

 

So I can out front with a pistol and AR (legally)? I'm not trying it, with my luck someone would take it the wrong way and call 911 reporting a man with guns.

 

I guess in the non-developed parts of NJ or wooded areas it wouldn't attract as much attention compared to where I reside.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

Is there a law in NJ against brandishing? A holstered pistol and a slung rifle I could see as OK but if you're literally waving them around could you get strung up on some kind of causing a disturbance type charge?

 

Just to add, when the weather is nicer I often choose to do my gun cleaning on my patio which is visible from the road and the trails through the woods behind my property. Never had a problem so far.

[dman2112 6]

This state sucks. This thread portrays the confusion of the stupidity

[johnp 45]

New Jersey laws do not apply in other states.

 

I agree.

 

 

NJ gun laws work because people are scared of their own shadows.