9mm/.223 - HD ammo - What do you recommend?

[fatty 241]

I know this has probably been discussed a million times, but what do you guys recommend for HD in 9mm?

 

I've got some Federal HST 124 gr (on back order...), but was wondering what you guys keep loaded for defensive use.  In the event that it has to be used at home, is there any particular kind/weight/etc that's best suited for the LEAST amount of wall penetration?  Frangible?  Civil Defense 50gr (2,000fps)?

 

Or - would you guys recommend keeping the AR handy for HD?  If so, what ammo would you recommend for the least wall penetration?

 

 

 

 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I would say use both.  If it comes to it, use the handgun to fight your way to your rifle.  AR with .223/5.56 is your best bet for accuracy and minimal overpenetration.  Get a good ammo with a soft point or hollow point bullet.  I personally have Hornady Z-Max (same thing as A-Max with a green tip) loaded in my AR mags for HD.

 

Get a good HP ammo for the pistol too... I have Winchester Ranger SXT 124gr +P Loaded.  

[fatty 241]

Thanks Nick.  Any leads on where I can get some of the Ranger SXT +P rounds?  Can't find anyone with them in stock

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Don't have to go with those - go with something you can get and test out.

 

Winchester PDX1 is a good alternative to Ranger SXT... Or Winchester Silver Tip

Hornady Critical Defense/Duty is good.

Federal Hydra Shok is excellent as well.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

I have GuardDog in my 9mm G19 HD mags.

[Bully 749]

 I personally have Hornady Z-Max (same thing as A-Max with a green tip) loaded in my AR mags for HD.

I would skip the zombie stuff. Maybe it's just me, but it begs too many questions from the prosecution should it have to be used: Your Honor, the defendant thinks (by the ammo he kept in his DEATH MACHINE!!!) that zombies are real and he treated the deceased like one.

 

Get you some non-zombie HD rounds.

 

IANAL

YMMV

Good luck

 

C

[mipafox 438]

HST has pretty much the best and most consistent performance, including through clothing. The other options he mentioned are fine as well, but there is no reason to switch from HST (except that it is on backorder). Hydrashock and PDX1 are known for increased penetration. Gold dots are also common and work well as another option.

 

Anything that will reliably get to the good stuff and cause damage inside a bad guy will also fly through several walls of modern construction and remain lethal. It's probably better to make sure the ammunition meets the minimum requirements to be considered effective.

 

In 5.56 the heavier OTM rounds cause pretty much the most damage without penetrating excessively from a relative standpoint (~15 inches in gel or so, and count 4" of that for skin). Hornady TAP 75 grain and TAP FPD 75 grain are well know for their performance. The soft point and bonded soft point rounds often penetrate quite a bit (20++ inches of gel) and cause a little less damage, sounds like that might not be what you are looking for. Varmint rounds (such as Z-max, A-Max, and the lighter TAP projectiles) may only penetrate 6-10" of gel and may not reach the good stuff on the bad guy in all cases. But I can tell you this, I sure as heck wouldn't want to be shot with it. The wounds will be extremely grievous and they are unlikely to exit the bad guy. I'm just concerned, rightly or wrongly, I might need a little more penetration to get to the off switch.

[fatty 241]

all great info - thanks guys.

[buell508 6]

I just watched a show testing ammo penetration threw walls, varmint rounds where best for .223, i will have to watch again for 9mm

[ccrides350 1]

I would skip the zombie stuff. Maybe it's just me, but it begs too many questions from the prosecution should it have to be used: Your Honor, the defendant thinks (by the ammo he kept in his DEATH MACHINE!!!) that zombies are real and he treated the deceased like one.

 

Get you some non-zombie HD rounds.

 

IANAL

YMMV

Good luck

 

C

 

Plus the Z-max have that company disclaimer on the box about only using it on zombies, I know its said just to be funny but still like mentioned above I would not want to it to be brought up in court.

[Kulasa 0]

I use 2 of each: Hornady TAP 75 gr, Winchester PDX-1 75 gr, Barnes TSX 55 gr, Federal Fusion 62 gr, repeat for next 7 rounds

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

9mm - Hornady critical defense/cricital duty.  Make sure you run through a couple of mags worth at the range to ensure no feeding issues.  Possible legal advantage of not being "hollow points" if you believe that using hollow points would bring more prosecutorial heat on you in a defensive usage.

 

.223/5.56 - Jacketed Soft Point (JSP) - tested to have less overpenetration than .223/5.56 FMJ, and also not hollow points.

 

I don't think there is any legal basis for prosecution on using hollow points for home defense, however it is one less talking point a lawyer can use against you on an un/ill-informed jury - "Defendant callously used hollow point ammunition that grievously injured the unfortunate, disadvantanged youth who was just turning his life around, ammunition that has been deemed too cruel for use by every civilized country in the Hague convention, ammunition designed to maximize pain, suffering and bodily harm"

[tony357 386]

I use Hornady critical defense in my HD gun..

[mipafox 438]

 

.223/5.56 - Jacketed Soft Point (JSP) - tested to have less overpenetration than .223/5.56 FMJ, and also not hollow points.

 

I'm going to need to see some jello shots on that. .223/5.56 JSP has the highest penetration of any load in this caliber. Usually double or more. The highest penetration in .223/5.56 is the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Federal load. Soft points are designed to expand modestly, run straight, and run deep. Through bones and as many feet of flesh as it takes to get the job done on animals that present on four legs and offer long body shots from odd angles.

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

 

 

I'm going to need to see some jello shots on that. .223/5.56 JSP has the highest penetration of any load in this caliber. Usually double or more. The highest penetration in .223/5.56 is the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Federal load. Soft points are designed to expand modestly, run straight, and run deep. Through bones and as many feet of flesh as it takes to get the job done on animals that present on four legs and offer long body shots from odd angles.

I should have written "wall over penetration".

 

I didn't mean flesh over penetration.

 

.223 JSP have tested to fragment after passing through one sheet of wallboard, the fragments failing to penetrate a second sheet.

[High Exposure 5,661]

This is from the ATF and FBI study on ballistics through walls:

I have the whole PowerPoint, along with a bunch of other documentation, but this slide is really the take away.

 

My first choice for HD is my AR with 64gr Fed TRU (not bonded)

 

Second choice is my pistol loaded with Federal HST.

[High Exposure 5,661]

I use 2 of each: Hornady TAP 75 gr, Winchester PDX-1 75 gr, Barnes TSX 55 gr, Federal Fusion 62 gr, repeat for next 7 rounds[/size]

Why?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

This is from the ATF and FBI study on ballistics through walls:

I have the whole PowerPoint, along with a bunch of other documentation, but this slide is really the take away.

 

My first choice for HD is my AR with 64gr Fed TRU (not bonded)

 

Second choice is my pistol loaded with Federal HST.

 

That's 5.56 M193 (55gr) and M855 (62gr) Ball ammo... vs soft point or hollow point.  

 

Here's a test with some other .223 ammo.

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

[mipafox 438]

 

I should have written "wall over penetration".

 

I didn't mean flesh over penetration.

 

.223 JSP have tested to fragment after passing through one sheet of wallboard, the fragments failing to penetrate a second sheet.

 

OK, just be careful with that statement. It may be true for some ammo but for much 5.56/.223 SP (and especially bonded SP) it is also the best barrier ammo, with the best penetration against windshields, wood, building materials, and certainly wallboard. Again, the best penetration you will get against any of those materials (and with the best terminal performance on the other side) is the Federal load of Trophy Bonded Bear Claw soft point. Personally, I would not tell people that .223 soft points (as a generic statement) have the least penetration against wallboard or anything else, because I know the opposite is true for several loads. I have no doubt you are right and found some loads where that is the case, but I don't think it is a good rule of thumb.

[mipafox 438]

 

Why?

 

 

Variety is the spice of death?

 

j/k

[MidwestPX 172]

My pistols are all loaded with HST with the exception of my 10mm guns which are loaded with DT 165gr which use Barnes bonded bullets. My bedside SBR has 62gr bonded Federal while my 16" guns are loaded with 75gr 5.56 TAP. My .308s are all 155gr AMAX which DocGKR has pretty much said is the most amazing bullet ever to hit ballistic gel. Personally, I'd keep an eye out on the new Speer Gold Dot. I heard the FBI found it to be 120% amazeballs.

[fatty 241]

I'd like to see more of how well the Speer Gold dot G2 does.

 

http://handgunplanet.com/news/first-look-speer-gold-dot-g2-ammo/