Benelli M3 - Possible to Legally Own in NJ?

[vladtepes 1,060]

if you think for even a second that a gun is enough to "scare away" an intruder...

if you think that one shot is enough to stop someone..

if you think that you will somehow have time to play game with beanbag round... blank rounds.. etc..

 

watch this.. he breached the door.. and close distance on the victim faster than you can even understand.. there was no discussion... no show down.. simply seconds to decide to shoot or not shoot.. about 10 seconds total from the first hit on the door till attacker is down.. oddly.. I think if the door was MORE secure the situation would have been even faster because the door jamb would have cracked..

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsAMSQ13bY#t=239

[AverageJoe 95]

Intense.

[checko 180]

Something tells me a bean bag would've done shit for you there

[Barms 98]

The remarkable thing about this is years ago when i was thinking about taking the Home Invasion class at GFH there was a link to a magazine article from a guy who took the class and one of the things he wrote about the many "so now what do you do?" Was "and what do you do when the guy is laying on the floor bleeding and screaming? For what could seem like hours waiting for help? Do you flee? Do you help him live?"

 

And holy sheet what do we have right in that video.

[bhunted 887]

Seriously... I'm guessing the good guys won not knowing names, etc. On a joking note, if the bad guy was the whiner... finish the job, shoot him again to shut his arse up. (j/k)

What a cheap shit door!

[DeerSlayer 241]

Really who uses a hollow Masonite door for a front entry door to an apartment? That's more ludicrous to me than the Jayson Voorhees wannabe, busting through it with a machete! I wouldn't rent the place unless they installed a real door.

 

[checko 180]

Really who uses a hollow Masonite door for a front entry door to an apartment? That's more ludicrous to me than the Jayson Voorhees wannabe, busting through it with a machete! I wouldn't rent the place unless they installed a real door.

Lots of places, eapecially low income areas, rent rooms. I'm sure a lot of them keep the old shitty interior doors and throw a lock on them.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Lots of places, eapecially low income areas, rent rooms. I'm sure a lot of them keep the old shitty interior doors and throw a lock on them.

That has about the same security ability as a cardboard box in an alley.

[checko 180]

That has about the same security ability as a cardboard box in an alley.

Lol agreed. I didn't say I'd rent it, just that it's pretty common if you're only paying a couple hundred rent

[DeerSlayer 241]

Lol agreed. I didn't say I'd rent it, just that it's pretty common if you're only paying a couple hundred rent

So basically what we're saying here is this is our tax dollars at work, or someone's tax dollars at work? if I were the building inspector I wouldn't allow this, how can that be a fire rated door? Couldn't pass code here, I don't think?

[checko 180]

So basically what we're saying here is this is our tax dollars at work, or someone's tax dollars at work? if I were the building inspector I wouldn't allow this, how can that be a fire rated door? Couldn't pass code here, I don't think?

You're assuming its a legal multi unit apartment.

[DeerSlayer 241]

You're assuming its a legal multi unit apartment.

True... point taken...

[Llama 0]

iwatch this.. he breached the door.. and close distance on the victim faster than you can even understand.. there was no discussion... no show down.. simply seconds to decide to shoot or not shoot.. about 10 seconds total from the first hit on the door till attacker is down.. oddly.. I think if the door was MORE secure the situation would have been even faster because the door jamb would have cracked..

 

vladtepes,

 

This is an excellent scenario, some commotion outside that felt suspicious, it appears the actor even knew the assailant. The actor visually inspected the corridor, which exposed him to unnecessary risk (but the camera was too low to tell if the door had an eyehole). The actor clearly yelled that he had a gun, which the assailant completely ignored (or did not hear over the sound of him breaking through the door). This was a completely clean shoot; the actor did everything until the last moment that necessitated deadly force. The actor even exhibited remorse for an assailant that deserves none.

 

I assume that such an encounter is atypical as the assailant was entering in high profile and ever escalating the situation. I can certainly agree that a bean bag would likely not stop the assailant. If I did have a bean as my first round, I would simply eject it using one quick pump; but I doubt I would use a bean in such a small dwelling.

 

My concerns for lethal-only ammunition lie more in situations where a robber simply wants to grab a TV/Xbox, intoxicated friend, family, or stranger showing up unexpectedly, concern for buck going through drywall and entering a neighbor's dwelling, and much more. I remember a story I heard a while back where a drunken college student was returning from a party to his recent girlfriend's house, where a party had already ended. All of the lights were out, as everyone was asleep, furthermore the houses all looked the same late at night, not to mention the student's level of intoxication. He chose the house that appeared most similar to what he had remembered, found the door to be locked, and swung around into the backyard to get the porch open, get inside, and sleep.

 

He couldn't get the porch open because it was locked, and a homeowner saw his silhouette and began banging on the porch door, insanely to scare him off. This was quite effective. This was not the right house. It was a neighbors. The student hopped a fence into the next yard, scared out of his drunken mind, only to find his girlfriend standing by the porch waiting for him, puzzled. He passes out in the correct house as police arrive and the (non)situation deescalates.

 

Now, how many different ways could this have gone? Let's say the porch was unlocked, and the student made it inside. How long would it take them to realize it wasn't the right house in his state of mind? Would the owner fire on him immediately? Does he have good judgement on whether or not there is real danger? Would it have been justified? There isn't a conclusive answer to these questions, but I feel it in my gut that I would owe it to society to at least consider a form of non-lethal deterrent for such situations.

 

In a situation where I know it's either him or me; there is no issue, and I will likely sleep just fine knowing I did the right (if not only) thing to defend myself. But I believe there is a lot more gray than black in home intruder cases, and considering non-lethal ammo to be worthless is irresponsible by my (as has been said) naive standards.

[bhunted 887]

They can afford guns and most likely cell phones, put their own steel door on. Maybe this would not have happened.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AverageJoe 95]

The remarkable thing about this is years ago when i was thinking about taking the Home Invasion class at GFH there was a link to a magazine article from a guy who took the class and one of the things he wrote about the many "so now what do you do?" Was "and what do you do when the guy is laying on the floor bleeding and screaming? For what could seem like hours waiting for help? Do you flee? Do you help him live?"

 

And holy sheet what do we have right in that video.

By law, you're s'posed to administer first aid until more help gets there. Yes, the guy that just busted thru your door to come in and kill you...you now have to "help." Even if its clear that theyre dead, CPR needs to be tried. We were just trained on this and they went over the laws with us, pretty messed up the way theyre written.

[AverageJoe 95]

vladtepes,

 

This is an excellent scenario, some commotion outside that felt suspicious, it appears the actor even knew the assailant.

Actor?

[High Exposure 5,662]

Show me the law. Cite me the statute. Show me where it states I have to perform CPR or render aid to a violent intruder that I just stopped. What if I don't know CPR? What if he's not dead and still wants to hurt me? What if I have a position of advantage and don't know if he's down or dead or faking?

 

If I have to shoot someone in my home, my next order of business is ensuring my safety and that of my family by removing them to a secure area and notifying the police if that hasn't already been done.

 

I am not sticking around to render aid.

[Llama 0]

Actor?

 

One who acts. In this case the person defending his home. This did not imply a staged event.

[AverageJoe 95]

One who acts. In this case the person defending his home. This did not imply a staged event.

lol I know the definition.. Understood.

[werder 0]

Administer first aid?

 

I can not believe that is true - perp is bleeding all over and I'm going to risk contracting something - right.

[AverageJoe 95]

Administer first aid?

 

I can not believe that is true - perp is bleeding all over and I'm going to risk contracting something - right.

Just like anyone else on the street...always protect yourself first before administering first aid to anyone.

[Vlad G 345]

Administer first aid?

 

I can not believe that is true - perp is bleeding all over and I'm going to risk contracting something - right.

 

On the other hand I like my floors so maybe ... maybe a tarp?

[vladtepes 1,060]

vladtepes,

 

This is an excellent scenario, some commotion outside that felt suspicious, it appears the actor even knew the assailant. The actor visually inspected the corridor, which exposed him to unnecessary risk (but the camera was too low to tell if the door had an eyehole). The actor clearly yelled that he had a gun, which the assailant completely ignored (or did not hear over the sound of him breaking through the door). This was a completely clean shoot; the actor did everything until the last moment that necessitated deadly force. The actor even exhibited remorse for an assailant that deserves none.

 

I assume that such an encounter is atypical as the assailant was entering in high profile and ever escalating the situation. I can certainly agree that a bean bag would likely not stop the assailant. If I did have a bean as my first round, I would simply eject it using one quick pump; but I doubt I would use a bean in such a small dwelling.

 

My concerns for lethal-only ammunition lie more in situations where a robber simply wants to grab a TV/Xbox, intoxicated friend, family, or stranger showing up unexpectedly, concern for buck going through drywall and entering a neighbor's dwelling, and much more. I remember a story I heard a while back where a drunken college student was returning from a party to his recent girlfriend's house, where a party had already ended. All of the lights were out, as everyone was asleep, furthermore the houses all looked the same late at night, not to mention the student's level of intoxication. He chose the house that appeared most similar to what he had remembered, found the door to be locked, and swung around into the backyard to get the porch open, get inside, and sleep.

 

He couldn't get the porch open because it was locked, and a homeowner saw his silhouette and began banging on the porch door, insanely to scare him off. This was quite effective. This was not the right house. It was a neighbors. The student hopped a fence into the next yard, scared out of his drunken mind, only to find his girlfriend standing by the porch waiting for him, puzzled. He passes out in the correct house as police arrive and the (non)situation deescalates.

 

Now, how many different ways could this have gone? Let's say the porch was unlocked, and the student made it inside. How long would it take them to realize it wasn't the right house in his state of mind? Would the owner fire on him immediately? Does he have good judgement on whether or not there is real danger? Would it have been justified? There isn't a conclusive answer to these questions, but I feel it in my gut that I would owe it to society to at least consider a form of non-lethal deterrent for such situations.

 

In a situation where I know it's either him or me; there is no issue, and I will likely sleep just fine knowing I did the right (if not only) thing to defend myself. But I believe there is a lot more gray than black in home intruder cases, and considering non-lethal ammo to be worthless is irresponsible by my (as has been said) naive standards.

 

 

you are giving yourself a lot of credit where none is due (with all due respect).. saying things like "I would simply eject the bean bag round".. really? as some maniac is crashing through your door with a machete? I am sure you have had some instance of chaos in your life.. a car accident maybe? something where the chaos of the moment overcame your clear thinking.. dont think for a second when faced with a life or death scenario you will have the ability to choose ammo.. assess the intentions of someone that has broken into your house.. you are right.. maybe they just want the TV.. and maybe when you point your gun at them you scare them.. but maybe what you do not realize.. is when you scare the guy holding the TV.. you dont notice the guy standing on the other side of the room that is now pointing a 38 at your head..  you can not risk your own life by assuming the best... if someone enters your residence.. you need to assume the worst.. or you may pay for it..  which brings up the point of a drunk friend.. or confused person.. whatever the case may be.. if you strip down the whole bean bag.. blank round.. etc.. and you just go in loaded you just took that concern off the table.. and you are left with one and only one decision.. and that is this.. is my life in danger.. do I believe I might be seriously injured or killed.. am I looking at a threat.. if the answer is yes.. then you shoot them.. with lethal ammo.. until they stop.. that is the correct method.. anything else and you are playing games with your life.. we keep lights on in our home.. and ALL of my weapons (except my subcompact carry gun) has a light on it.. it has a light on it so I can see what I am pointing it at.. I suggest the same for you.. and while we are on the subject of equipment.. and things like over penetration.. your concerns are justified.. a shotgun.. OR even a handgun can do a ton of damage post interior wall.. as counter intuitive as it is an AR15 is your friend.. this high velocity low mass round is good at stopping people.. but it is also less likely to do damage post interior wall... which why I said some time earlier in this threat.. an AR15 is what you want..

 

the right gun for the job..

ID the target..

is threat.. shoot to stop

 

nothing more... nothing less..

[vladtepes 1,060]

and forget about that whole rendering aid nonsense.. I like Joe a ton but not sure where that came from.. the last thing you want to do is get physically involved with some scumbag bleeding out on your floor covered some disease infested blood... call the police.. some would say to put the gun down.. but IMO keep your gun on him (hey you never know)... when the police show up put the gun down.. get your hands up.. and do what they tell you.. tell dispatch as much as you can.. stress that you have a gun.. you want the police to KNOW you are the good guy and more importantly that you are armed.. and you want to listen to them so you dont end up shot.. stay on the phone with them if possible...

[Barms 98]

Llama.. After reading your last post... Seriously. Just buy a Taser gun man. All your concerns are answered: lethalness, friendly fire, penetration... Etc. T-A-S-E-R.

 

Your comment "I would eject the bean bag"... You just remind me of like someone who has all the answers when all the facts put in front of you are so over abundantly clear.

 

Why do you want a gun man? When it's so clear you want that to be your LAST option? All the concerns you have are 100% diametrically opposed to what you think is MORE paramount than your own personal life. It's like almost talking to an ANTI gun person. I hope you are sincere in wanting education here but you're sounding like Joe Biden.

 

The tool you want is a Taser, not a shotgun.

[High Exposure 5,662]

Llama,

 

You have no idea how the real world that exists outside of your sheltered experience works, and you clearly have no idea how it feels to be under life threatening stress.

 

Stop watching TV or movies and go take a Karate class. Go start a fight at a bar. Get your nose pushed in. See what it feels like to have your heart rate pass 220, you hands to feel like balloons and your vision tunnel.

 

Then come back and tell me how you are going to have the wherewithal to conduct a select slug drill in a confrontation at room distances.

 

You have gotten golden advice in this thread. Advice I wish I had gotten when I started down this road. It's now up to you to what you do with it. Continue on in a fantasyland derived from your unrealistic expectations of how a violent encounter occurs based on your limited experience, or open your mind and read and learn how the world really works.

 

In my opinion, at this stage in the game, you should not use a firearm for self defense. You are not mentally prepared and the firearm will be more of a liability than an asset at this point in your development.

 

Good luck.

 

Llama.. After reading your last post... Seriously. Just buy a Taser gun man. All your concerns are answered: lethalness, friendly fire, penetration... Etc. T-A-S-E-R.

 

Your comment "I would eject the bean bag"... You just remind me of like someone who has all the answers when all the facts put in front of you are so over abundantly clear.

 

Why do you want a gun man? When it's so clear you want that to be your LAST option? All the concerns you have are 100% diametrically opposed to what you think is MORE paramount than your own personal life. It's like almost talking to an ANTI gun person. I hope you are sincere in wanting education here but you're sounding like Joe Biden.

 

The tool you want is a Taser, not a shotgun.

You don't want a Taser in NJ...

 

2C:39-1t

 

t. "stun gun" means any weapon or other device which emits an electrical charge or current intended to temporarily or permanently disable a person.

 

2C:39-3

h. stun guns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any stun gun is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

Llama.. After reading your last post... Seriously. Just buy a Taser gun man. All your concerns are answered: lethalness, friendly fire, penetration... Etc. T-A-S-E-R.

 

Your comment "I would eject the bean bag"... You just remind me of like someone who has all the answers when all the facts put in front of you are so over abundantly clear.

 

Why do you want a gun man? When it's so clear you want that to be your LAST option? All the concerns you have are 100% diametrically opposed to what you think is MORE paramount than your own personal life. It's like almost talking to an ANTI gun person. I hope you are sincere in wanting education here but you're sounding like Joe Biden.

 

The tool you want is a Taser, not a shotgun.

when i used to help teach new r/c pile-its at our club, i called people like this "yea butters". you'd show them how to do what they asked you to show them, and you'd get "yea but i was doing this, or yea but this, yea but that", etc. they got 3 chances. after that i was done with them. to the point that i just walked away from one guy.

 anyway....that's what this guy seems like. he's essentially getting fantastic advice, and for every reply, we're seeing what essentially amounts to "yea but".