Heavyopp 167 Posted January 31, 2015 Let's get back to the original question -- I don't give a crap about Shawns FFL status Since when does a weld mark on a muzzle device mean it's actually pinned? I can easily take the tig welder and bugger up a spot on a muzzle device. Wouldn't the final test be the attempted removal of attached muzzle device -- If it comes off, and the threads are usable afterwards, I would say your SOL If you have properly pinned it with the pin actually protruding into the threads then does it really mater if the weld is visible or not? The weld or lack of visible weld doesn't prove squat as to the presence of a pin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted January 31, 2015 I have one that's pinned and welded over, the weld was ground down flush with the brake. The "gunsmith I used" (because this is never something I would do in my garage at home) then hit the ground spot with a blueing pen I know where the pin is. But you have to look hard to find it. It's pinned on the underside of the barrel, so it's less noticeable. I really hope I never have to change the gas block. Because it's a frigging work of metal art, I would hate to have "my gunsmith" drill out to remove. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted January 31, 2015 Let's get back to the original question -- I don't give a crap about Shawns FFL status Since when does a weld mark on a muzzle device mean it's actually pinned? I can easily take the tig welder and bugger up a spot on a muzzle device. Wouldn't the final test be the attempted removal of attached muzzle device -- If it comes off, and the threads are usable afterwards, I would say your SOL If you have properly pinned it with the pin actually protruding into the threads then does it really mater if the weld is visible or not? The weld or lack of visible weld doesn't prove squat as to the presence of a pin. You are correct in your thinking. It can look as nice or as shitty as you want, as long is it is done correctly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carl_g 568 Posted January 31, 2015 This is stupid. Not bashing LEO here but you actually think if LEO get that up close and personal to a citizen's rifle that they are going to know or even care that the brake is pinned correctly? I am willing to bet most will just see an evil black rifle and let the NJSP firearms unit then the court decide the suspects fate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted January 31, 2015 I just had a customer win a court battle over his guns. The Camden county prosecutors office claimed Midwest px 15/20 mags were illegal and That a magpul fcs was also illegal. The gentleman hired nappens firm and won. The judge was mad that the po never even tested the mags. Here is where is got hairy. The judge asked him why he even needed a rifle like that. The prosecutor said that it is his right to own one. So both sides weren't friendly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted January 31, 2015 But what I'm asking is simple. To a leo what's good enough to proof? A letter? A weld mark? Because even though he won the case he still had the financial burden of fighting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted January 31, 2015 You are not going to get a useful answer because there isn't one. It will depend on the totality of the circumstances. If things have gotten to where I am looking at the attachment method of the muzzle device on your rifle in order to determine how "permanent" it is, that's probably the least of your worries. It's also most likely out of my hands at that point and up to a county or state prosecutor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted January 31, 2015 I just had a customer win a court battle over his guns. The Camden county prosecutors office claimed Midwest px 15/20 mags were illegal and That a magpul fcs was also illegal. The gentleman hired nappens firm and won. The judge was mad that the po never even tested the mags. Here is where is got hairy. The judge asked him why he even needed a rifle like that. The prosecutor said that it is his right to own one. So both sides weren't friendly Its comforting to know that NJ is keeping true to its colors in trying to screw over NJ gun owners over victimless "crimes" based off of unconstitutional laws. At least our State's esteemed govt and justice system is consistent. I'm assuming the State will be setting up some kind of sting operation in trying to rid our streets of NJ gun owners who didn't have their muzzle brakes attached permanently enough, or their mags not altered permanently enough at 15 rounds. These people are truly the scourge and propagators of violence on our streets. Talk about a government at war with its people. If this comment is true, this is one example that it really is happening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted January 31, 2015 Yeah he had his guns taken due to a tro. He had a spikes ar that I personally modified. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted January 31, 2015 Guy has bad luck with guns. He had empty p250 mags in his back seat but no gun with him when he was stopped by the east greenwich pd. the cop took his mags and never got em back. He wasn't charged with anything. To me that's theft Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted January 31, 2015 Guy has bad luck with guns. He had empty p250 mags in his back seat but no gun with him when he was stopped by the east greenwich pd. the cop took his mags and never got em back. He wasn't charged with anything. To me that's theft Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDThat's bogus! They consider the magazine "a part of the gun" didn't know it's illegal to transport gun parts now as well. They probably destroyed them trying to take them apart in an attempt to prove they held more than 15rounds is my guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magnawing 5 Posted January 31, 2015 Or the PO owns a P250 and needed some extra mags.... This signature is AWESOME!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted January 31, 2015 I just had a customer win a court battle over his guns. The Camden county prosecutors office claimed Midwest px 15/20 mags were illegal and That a magpul fcs was also illegal. The gentleman hired nappens firm and won. The judge was mad that the po never even tested the mags. Here is where is got hairy. The judge asked him why he even needed a rifle like that. The prosecutor said that it is his right to own one. So both sides weren't friendly Is it me or are you and your customers Magnets for prosecution? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted January 31, 2015 I find this entire thread idiotic. Your asking if you can pin a brake so cleanly that your worried about an issue with the NJSP and being able to prove its pinned. Why did you just not post your real thread. I pin brakes amazingly clean. This is how much PM me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted January 31, 2015 I was looking for Leo opinion. I want to perfect making it look like it was never pinned. I'll have a union painter spray it on the way to to finish it Are you Paying his union wages and benefits? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 1, 2015 Paul no popcorn. If his question was legit and he really wanted info he would have just PM'd some of the vendors... Just as we all do all the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestPX 172 Posted February 1, 2015 Pardon my ignorance due to not living behind enemy lines in NJ but here's my take on it as an outsider. Owning an AR15 type rifle in NJ is an exercise in risk tolerance. Even if you have a 100% compliant rifle (including accessories), if an aggressive LEO sees an AR15 shooter and a Remington 700 shooter at the same range and wants to hassle one of them, the AR shooter is going to have a bad day. I don't think it will matter how cleanly the modifications were done. This is a major reason why I have a handful of dealers who refuse to stock anything but 15/20s as they feel they draw less attention while maintaining compliance. Is Shawn as an 01 FFL in the clear pinning and welding muzzle devices? It depends. If he's doing the work on parts that were provided by the customer or parts that weren't part of a rifle originally, yes. It's gunsmithing and can be done by an 01 or an 07. If they were booked into the bound book as a rifle and the work is done prior to the sale of the rifle, no, 01s can't do that as a normal course of business. Unfortunately, the normal course of business is not defined by the ATF. FAET is collected if an 07 manufactures 50 or more title one firearms in a calendar year so that number is frequently used as the threshold for how much "manufacturing" an 01 can legally do. Circling back to Shawn's original question of if providing documentation that the rifle was made compliant would be enough to pass muster if inspected by a LEO. My answer would be "Maybe." It depends on the LEO and situation. if they want to jam the owner up, they will. If they want to run the rifle through inspection/testing to verify that the muzzle device is permanently attached, the stock is pinned, the mags don't hold more than 15 rounds, etc., they will. IMO, if you own an AR15 type rifle in NJ, this is something you should be aware of and ready to deal with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GlastonburyNative 0 Posted February 1, 2015 This is off topic but this question relates to muzzle brakes. Is it possible to "fix" a poorly welded muzzle brake? I bought a rifle a while back and have never been happy with the weld which covers the pin. The dealer I purchased this rifle from made no attempt to blend and left a giant weld blob on the end of my comp. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heavyopp 167 Posted February 1, 2015 This is off topic but this question relates to muzzle brakes. Is it possible to "fix" a poorly welded muzzle brake? I bought a rifle a while back and have never been happy with the weld which covers the pin. The dealer I purchased this rifle from made no attempt to blend and left a giant weld blob on the end of my comp. Sure, Why not? -- You can do it yourself with just a dremel -- be careful and go slow and it will turn out just fine -- Touch up with a blueing pen once you're done Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted February 1, 2015 Is it me or are you and your customers Magnets for prosecution? Not really, this particular person had 2 run ins. Tro's are actually common and cause a big headache for people for something that usually is just dropped anyway. Unfortunately women use them as weapons during break ups/ divorces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 2, 2015 Sure, Why not? -- You can do it yourself with just a dremel -- be careful and go slow and it will turn out just fine -- Touch up with a blueing pen once you're done Correct. Just go slow, Use a dremel, Start with a fine stone and not to fast. you can smooth things out with a flap paper wheel to really make it smooth afterwards but you might need Super Cold Blue since if its really smooth Remember you can always take more off but can add Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heavyopp 167 Posted February 6, 2015 Remember you can always take more off but can add Not exactly true but much harder to add than take off -- You can always build up with some filler rod and the tig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted February 6, 2015 I assumed he did not have the equipment to add since most people don't Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites